MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > So the film contradicts itself:

So the film contradicts itself:

posted 5 years ago by TheHungryHippo (821)
19 replies | jump to latest

When Vice Admiral Gender Studies kamikazes herself through the imperial fleet the film seems to be telling us that we are supposed to agree with her noble sacrifice to save the remainder of the rebels.

But then when FINN tries to do the exact same thing to take out the canon that is about to blow up the blast door where all the rebels are hiding freaking fat Asian chick knocks him out of the way with this whole win the war with the power of love nonsense. The film then contradicts itself by trying to convince us that FINN sacrificing himself was not the right thing to do and that Fat Asian Chick did the right thing in "saving him" when in reality she almost killed him and the Empire blew down the blast door which almost got the rest of the rebels killed.

Seriously this film cannot make up its mind on what it wants its message to be. Seriously which is it: Is sacrificing yourself for the greater good a good thing or a bad thing? Such a stupid movie.

[–] Ace_Spade (9348) 5 years ago

It's way twistier than that, too.

Poe's whole plot arc is about not doing Hail Mary sacrifices to try to save your friends. Holdo does it, though, and then Poe's lesson is: Holdo is noble. Finn tries to do the noble thing and then Rose smashes into him (a crazy, Hail Mary sacrifice). The message to Finn is: don't try to save your friends by ramming things. The message to Rose is: save your friend by ramming things.

It's also wonky with "let the Jedi die while becoming the last Jedi".

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

That's a very good point it seems the message is: It's OK for certain people to make a noble sacrifice but for other people it's wrong of them to make a noble sacrifice.

It's a good thing Sydney Carton never had to listen to this nonsense, he would have been beyond confused and chances are he would have gotten both himself and Charles Darnay guillotined.

[–] Ed (522) 4 years ago

This reminds me of the “naturally” portion of the classic baseball skit “Who’s on First?” By Abbott and Costello.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

The message is: Men are not allowed to be heroes in this movie. That's it.

[–] Juschill (779) 5 years ago

This

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I thought the message was: A bunch of personality disordered broads lead by an SJW mangina can not write a coherent script.

[–] Truthtalker (1870) 5 years ago

Bingo

And at the.beginning her sister did the self-sacrifice too

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

I've brought this up many times. The film does not know if it wants to promote self-sacrifice or not.

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

I want to know how did none of the people who worked on this film notice this obvious, glaring contradiction. I only watched this film maybe 3 times (it gets worse and worse every time so I kind of gave up trying to like it) and even I noticed.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

I noticed it when I watched it once. The people over at Lucasfilm probably noticed it too. They just didn't care since it would make money no matter what.

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

Well here's the thing, Solo: A Star Wars Story lost money so maybe now they'll see that you can't just slap the name Star Wars on just anything and make a billion dollars. Hopefully they'll revamp their approach however I'm not holding my breath.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

Episode 9 will still make enough to turn a profit. They'll stop making movies for a while but they will still make money off the merch, TV shows, etc. In another decade or so, they'll come out with Episode 10 and the whole thing will start all over again.

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

I don't know we'll see. after The Last Jedi and Solo I really don't see the hype for this film that lets say Episodes I and VII did.

[–] AtomicReturns (1252) 4 years ago

When Vice Admiral Gender Studies kamikazes herself through the imperial fleet the film seems to be telling us that we are supposed to agree with her noble sacrifice to save the remainder of the rebels.

I rewatched this, and that sacrificial move was not what she originally intended. She was planning on piloting the larger vessel herself after the smaller escape ones made it safely. There are scenes even showing her smiling and satisfied their plan may have worked.

However, Benecio Del Toro's thief character sold them out for cash, and told the New Order their entire plans. That is when you see Holdo taken by surprise and attempting one last crazy move to save the last few remaining escape vessels. Leia says Holdo did things not to be seen as a hero, but to save the most lives possible.

I can understand what you mean when the movie seems to show both sacrifices helping and not helping. Perhaps that is what the movie wants to say -- war is messy, and some sacrifices may not be worth it (Poe basically wasted all those bombers, one could argue). Finn's sacrifice might've worked, but what if he just got shot down like a fly when he was 97.8% of the way there? He's one of the best pilots there it seems, next to Poe.

What if the movie consistently said "all sacrifices are worth it", like you said? That could easily be refuted by fictional and non-fictional examples, as there can be reckless, even dumb fruitless sacrifices (charging by yourself and shouting full-throated into an army of 200 men isn't going to accomplish anything, for instance).

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Martoto (4172) 4 years ago

He wouldn't have made it. Simple as that. Huge difference.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Martoto (4172) 4 years ago

Thoughts and prayers.

[–] lolkatz (475) 4 years ago

Seriously this film cannot make up its mind on what it wants its message to be. Seriously which is it: Is sacrificing yourself for the greater good a good thing or a bad thing?

This is the dilemma that the movie doesn't attempt to resolve, but leaves it to the viewers to decide, and that's what makes this movie great. Well pointed parallel between Holdo's sacrifice, and would-be sacrifice of Finn. Martyrs sometimes save the day, but it doesn't mean the Resistance should go full suicide-bomber mode.