MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Those that like/love this film

Those that like/love this film

posted 5 years ago by Hans-Wilhelm (1320)
23 replies | jump to latest

Please detail why you like these aspects of Episode VII and VIII?

1. It is as if Return of the Jedi never occurred. The Rebels killed the Emperor, Vader, the Death Star, a super star destroyer and had the Empire defeated and on its last legs. The Sith are dead.
The Force Awakens starts and it is the exact same situation. Now it is the First Order and the victorious rebels and new republic are now reduced to the tiny Resistance.

2. The exact same Jedi plot. A new youthful upcoming Jedi. Another pair of sith, Snoke and Kylo and another good apprentice turning to the dark side. First it was Vader now it is Ben. The exact same plot....in the very next generation.

3. Bringing back Hamill, Fisher and Ford and not giving them even ONE scene together.

4. Why do you agree with completely altering who Luke was in every way?

5. Rey? Why do you accept, like or approve of her being so gifted at everything....without some type of explanation to justify it since every Jedi ever had to learn and train and slowly acquire their powers. Why does that not perplex or trouble you?

6. Why do you like the plot of spaceships slowing down after running out of gas while in the vacuum of space in which all objects continue to travel their existing speed....forever unless acted upon by another force?

7. Why do you like the new slap slick humor "Po pulling a phone prank your momma" on Hux, Finn flopping around and falling off table with leaking water tubes, BB8 acting as if he is plugging water holes in a damn with 10 fingers and finally using his head to fix electoral fuses, surges on a circuit board?

8. Why do you accept Disney's strategy of not having an overall plan for the trilogy, a rough blueprint as to where the saga is going, having the characters and their arc roughly planned out so that all three films go together and build up and resolve......and instead let each single director WRITE the story and play mad libs as they each make up their own stuff....throwing away what the other director had done?

9. Why doesn't the abandonment of JJ Abrams questions bother you......throwing out the importance and history of Snoke, building up the lineage and parents of Rey and than just throwing that out, throwing out explaining why/how Luke's saber "calls" to Rey and why, throwing out explaining how Rey knew she could and had the power on the first try could control people with the Force, knew she could and did call a saber to herself, could defeat a trained Jedi who was trained for years by Luke and than by Snoke and who could stop laser blasts in air......with a light saber she's never trained with ever for even ten minutes? At least explain it somehow.

10. Not mind destroying canon by weaponizing light speed. Every battle that has ever been fought is now thrown into scrutiny for not just remote piloting ships at each other at light speed?

Of course you don't have to respond to all 10 but if you have any good feedback regarding any of these points.

[–] Burk48917 (10980) 5 years ago

Not a fair question if you pin people down to only certain things. Maybe they enjoyed parts of the movie you didn't mention. It's like saying "For people who like Disney World, what part about buying tickets and standing in line do you like?", when there are a lot of cool things about Disney besides that.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1320) 5 years ago

Why did you even bother responding at all? Just move along.

[–] Burk48917 (10980) 5 years ago

Why bother posting on a public message board if you dont want a public response?

[–] Recognizer (386) 5 years ago

What you gave wasn’t a response. Name some the “cool” things in TLJ that make all the shit worth it?

[–] Alex (1478) 5 years ago

I bet he enjoyed Luke milking an alien cow and drinking its milk scene. or the whole Canto Bight sequence xD

[–] Burk48917 (10980) 5 years ago

By definition, it was a response. It just wasn't the response that was hoped for. Words have meanings,sorry.

[–] FFNogoodnik (770) 5 years ago

It seems that Hans-Whilhelm had specific problems with the films. Problems that prevented him from enjoying the films. The point of the post is to find other fans that are OK with these specific items.

If a fan likes the films because they love seeing the space battles is most likely irrelevant to Hans. Hans is looking for people who are fine with the things he had trouble with to discuss that difference of opinion

[–] Martoto (4172) 5 years ago

First, people have to accept the definitions for the specific things Wilhelm has a problem with.

It should go without saying that people who enjoyed the film don't subscribe to those descriptions so being "fine" with those perceived problems is an answer the OP isn't going to get. I'm sure the OP knows this too and the thread is just another opportunity to impose those definitions, for which they have no authority except in the context own attitudes.

[–] Burk48917 (10980) 5 years ago

You get it. A fair question would be to ask how someone can overlook these issues and still enjoy the movie. He picked the parts he disliked and made that the entirety of the film, and expected people to defend the weakest moments as if they were the only things on screen.

[–] Martoto (4172) 5 years ago

Each one of your questions and perceived problems is based on a premise or an assumption that I , and likely most others who enjoy the films, don't agree with.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1320) 5 years ago

Perhaps. Perhaps a few of them. Several are factual so your rebuttal certainly wouldn't "negate" every point.

It is factual that the general plot is in the same position....Rebels......Resistance.....battling the Empire......First Order. The Sith......Palpatine/Vader........Snoke/Ren are in charge.

There is a fallen Jedi story......Anakin.........Kylo Ren turn to the dark side and destroy Jedi.

Luke is a completely different person now......he was idealistic, hopeful, fought for his friends, tried to redeem those who've fallen......now he is bitter, fatalistic, has given up, abandoned everyone, is inclined to kill to stop a possible fall rather than to redeem or avert the possible fall.

It is a fact Han....Luke.....and Leia did not have a seen together. Luke hasn't been on screen with Han since Yub Nub in 1983.

Now you may LIKE these things, you may engage in conversation and expound on why you think this is a GOOD twist and you like them because.....X,Y, Z.

But to say I "reject your premise" is just intellectually dishonest.
Rey hasn't receive any Jedi training. She beat Kylo without ever holding a saber before, she made the guard set her free without any force training. She called Luke's saber through the air.

These are FACTS. There is no "premise" to reject regarding these things. They haven't explained how she could do that without even being told they are possible.

This isn't a premise. These happened in the film. How do you reject a premise of factual details of the film?

If you like these and you are glad they did them and you think it was a good direction for Star Wars just elaborate on what you liked about them....don't just refuse to discuss the film and to discuss some of the controversial parts that split the fans.

[–] Martoto (4172) 5 years ago

It is factual that the general plot is in the same position....Rebels......Resistance.....battling the Empire......First Order. The Sith......Palpatine/Vader........Snoke/Ren are in charge.

There is a fallen Jedi story......Anakin.........Kylo Ren turn to the dark side and destroy Jedi.

Luke is a completely different person now......he was idealistic, hopeful, fought for his friends, tried to redeem those who've fallen......now he is bitter, fatalistic, has given up, abandoned everyone, is inclined to kill to stop a possible fall rather than to redeem or avert the possible fall.

It is a fact Han....Luke.....and Leia did not have a seen together. Luke hasn't been on screen with Han since Yub Nub in 1983.

Since you've altered some of your premises here..

There have been good guys and bad guys fighting each other for control of the Galaxy/assume their rightful position within the Republic/Empire. I don't see why that's expected to change.

I don't see why fallen Jedi have no further place in the story either. (Proposals made in the eighties/nineties for episodes VII - IX had a somewhat fallen Luke)

Han and Luke having a scene together isn't a box I need ticked in order for the movies to be permissible, let alone good. If that's the kind of service you need as a fan, regardless, then that's up to you.

As for Luke being a completely different character. I don't agree with that. He's the same character with different problems to overcome than he had in previous movies where things worked out despite not always arriving at or sticking to the ideal solution the whole way.

As for you intellectually dishonest shite. Just because someone doesn't have the same notions of what is required to display force ability it doesn't indicate anything about intellect. That's just some stuff you've chosen to believe.

If I don't agree that there's a problem on the terms you're dictating, it would be dishonest for me to say I'm fine with the problems you've described. Because the problem doesn't exist, except for you.

If you were being intellectually honest you would anticipate that people who like the films do not share your views on what problems they create.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1320) 5 years ago

Well, this was an opportunity for just some civil conversation. I guess that is just too hard for some.

You've made the wrong premise....not me.

I've just pointed out some major issues many had and asked for those that liked these details to elaborate on what you liked about them. If you or those that respond to this liked the film it is pretty much a given these details about the film are things you liked or had no problem with them. I've only asked for a conversation on what you liked.

YOU framed the topic in this way: "IF I DON'T AGREE THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM ON THE TERMS YOU'RE DICTATING" You have made things adversarial. My post never said there was a problem I only very honestly and factually pointed out part of the plot that were controversial and caused the split. YOU are taking this conversation (which you really are choosing not to have, you really just shouldn't have responded you are just being an ass hole) to places it was never intended to go.
Instead of elaborating on why you liked these parts of the film....the parts many hated you just dismiss and refuse to engage in conversation....you don't discuss why you like A and like B.....etc. you just flippantly disregard having any discussion with......"not a problem"......"not a problem"......."not a problem".

GREAT CONVERSATION. You really elaborated in such an articulate way why you LIKED these parts of the film. "Not a problem"....."reject premise".

Great feedback. Thanks for responding. What an articulate take about these scenes. I've never thought of it that way before. "not a problem" really great feedback.

[–] Martoto (4172) 5 years ago

Forgive me for not having the same problems as you've landed yourself with. And you're question was not what people liked about the film. But why they liked the problems you have with it.

You can put me on ignore, petal, if the conversation isn't going the way you want it.

If you are admitting that genuinely lack the intellect to have anticipated that others haven't handcuffed themselves to their own voluntary preconceived notions enough to perceive the same "problems" you choose to then I am sorry.

[–] Titaanzink (44) 5 years ago

Most of this list are issues with TFA, not TLJ.

I found TFA to be a tired re-tread of the original Star Wars, most likely in an attempt to cash in on people's nostalgia. The plot is derivative and the main character is a total Mary Sue. It's not a good movie.

I actually think TLJ was a small step in the right direction. The plot goes in a totally new direction and Rey actually receives some training to back up her total OP-ness. I didn't mind at all that they threw out everything TFA set up as those questions were never that interesting to me in the first place. Setting up Snoke as a new Palpatine would have been totally redundant (though I'm sure JJA would have done it anyway). It's still not a great movie but at least it has a few visually striking scenes.

I still can't believe that they went into this trilogy without an overall plan for how it would turn out. No wonder it's turned into a complete mess. What were they thinking?

[–] Scape (504) 5 years ago

>I still can't believe that they went into this trilogy without an overall plan for how it would turn out. No wonder it's turned into a complete mess. What were they thinking?

I know... It was a terrible idea not to have a rough outline for the whole trilogy. I think Disney realized that error after TLJ complaints, because they hired the “Game of Thrones” writers to do just that, a full outline for their new trilogy. Not saying it won’t also suck, but at least it looks like they learned from this trilogy’s mistakes.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1320) 5 years ago

Let's see, some of these do pertain to TFA. Let's do an inventory.

1. TFA
2. TFA
3. TFA
4. TLJ
5. TLJ (there is nothing wrong per se with this plot....they just have to give a reason, TFA sets up the mystery, TLJ needed to address it and come up with some backstory and explanation as to how she has such power without being told a force sensitive person can do these things and without ever being taught anything. No one questions how a super gifted pianist plays so well....they just don't play like that the very first time they've ever seen or touched a piano. Instead of offering some explanation to this mystery, TLJ doubled down and made her even more powerful and yet didn't explain how or why we were just supposed to accept it because it is.
6. TLJ
7. TLJ
8. Really, TFA, TLJ and TRoS, the entire trilogy was set afloat with and all three films have this flawed strategy.
9. TLJ
10. TLJ.

About 3 of the 10 really criticize TFA more than TLJ.

[–] Titaanzink (44) 5 years ago

1-3: Agreed
4: Not sure I agree that he's altered in every way. Yes, his development is taken in a new direction and no, I don't particularly like it. But he does redeem himself in the end. At least it's a character arc.
5: Disagree. This is a way bigger problem in TFA. TLJ just didn't make it any better.
6: I don't watch Star Wars for it's science. It has to be pretty damn awful for me to pick on stuff like that in a space fantasy.
7: Stupid humour in SW is not a new phenomenon unfortunately. See RotJ.
8: Agreed, this is an over-arching problem with all their new films. Whoever's in charge is doing a bad job.
9: I'm sure this would bother me if I thought any of those questions were interesting.
10: See 6.

At the end of the day, the new trilogy is still better than the prequels. And to be honest, even RotJ is highly questionable, especially after George Lucas tinkered with it. Now that I think about it, there's only really two SW movies that are really great so perhaps we've been hoping for too much.

[–] OldG (625) 5 years ago

I do not know if I am allowed to reply... as I do not see myself loving these 2 films... I liked liked some parts TFA & TLJ and hated other parts...

I will just reply to a some of your points...

3. I do not see this as a problem... would I have liked it sure... but it should serve the story and not just be fan service... And with Luke and Han's arch it didn't make sense...

4. We all change as we get older... With what Luke have been through it makes sense that he has become disillusioned... Everything he fought when he was young (the empire, the darkside etc.) has come back stronger so he feels he has has lost his purpose... So I accept that this once young a positive kid has become old and bitter...

7. The slapstick humor was always there C3PO in the original trilogi and Jar Jar in the prequals (remember Jar Jar stepping in poop)

8. I do not know if this is completely true (I might be wrong) but at least let us see IX before we come to this conclusion...

9. Well we still have a movie to go... I do not feel the Rian did anything that completely went against JJ... we never knew what intentions JJ had with Snoke... But with Palpatine coming back I do not care... Rey's parents can still be improtant... Maybe Snoke and Kylo were messing with Rey... I do not see an issue with anything done in TLJ even if her parents are important (maybe that is just me)

What I hated most in TLJ was the Finn and Rose storyline... I would love to see a cut where just remove that entire story...

[–] peterkneter (375) 5 years ago

1-3 as seen above is more a problem in TFA
4 I liked that he developed. Imagine you wil stay the same for 30 years. Especially when you are liek 30 years on a small isoated island. Everybody would become strange.
5 I dont see her that strong with the force. And she had also been trained by luke. And whatever it is about her character and her secrets - they can still be revealed.
6 yes, I mean I dont know how exacly a lightsaber would work. How come the laser stops after 1 meter? But I dont care. I accept it to be normal in the star wars universe.
7 Yes I see that. It felt a bit like a spoof. so I agree with that but it did not kick me out of the mood completely.
8 lets wait. We have not seen SW9. After that you can argue if there is no arc or too many same twists or no explanations.
9 same as OldG (195) said before: "we still have a movie to go... I do not feel the Rian did anything that completely went against JJ... we never knew what intentions JJ had with Snoke... But with Palpatine coming back I do not care... Rey's parents can still be improtant... Maybe Snoke and Kylo were messing with Rey... I do not see an issue with anything done in TLJ even if her parents are important"
10 yes I agree with that

[–] footballhead (80) 5 years ago

I'll reply to a couple.
3. Would that have been cool? Sure. But come on, that's just fan service. The three of them got their own trilogy. It seems like the plan was for each to get the focus in one movie, Ford in FA, Hamill in TLJ, and presumably Carrie in the next one. We didn't need a scene with the three of them if it didnt fit narratively.

4. I don't think it alters Luke's character in every way. The Skywalkers have always had light and dark in them. Anakin and Ben turn to the dark, and Luke comes very close. I can see how, in a moment of flashbacks and PTSD, he thought how killing Ben would save lives. And lead to his character in the present day. He clearly is ashamed of himself. I also like that it was different. He wasn't just this Obi Wan picture perfect mentor. We've seen that before. This movie gave Hamill a chance to do some legitimately great acting. I thought he should have been in Oscar contention, he was so good. He's a fictional character. You don't have to like it, but I dont think it's this massive issue.

5. This is a valid criticism, but one that's way, way overblown. Honestly, the fact people bitch so much about this is ridiculous. Yes, she uses the force too easily. Shes too powerful with no training. How about we all move on? It's a good point, but one that people cry about too much. I still think Rey is cool character and Daisy Ridley does a good job. Some people say this ruins the movies for them. That's hilarious to me. And let's be honest, Luke gets pretty damn good after one single minor lesson from Obi Wan. Not to mention how he somehow was such a good pilot. Same with Anakin. How did this slave kid become the best pilot alive? Cause he worked with junk?

6. Have you seen the other two trilogies? This complaint doesnt make sense to me. Yes, there's some slapstick humor. Just like in the other 6 movies. C3PO is comic relief and nothing more for every movie. We have ewoks dancing around in a funny language. Han has slapstick humor.

[–] janelsenor (2042) 5 years ago

Yes, she uses the force too easily. Shes too powerful with no training.

Pretty sure that's the whole point. Rey is an enigma because of this and no one knows how or why she's that powerful.

[–] footballhead (80) 5 years ago

Guess my reply is too long, so I'll finish in a second post.

6. Continued.
And the humor is 100 times worse in the prequels. Jar Jar freaking Binx? Poop and fart jokes? C3PO is even more slapstick and ridiculous. The battle droids sound like they're on helium. They're so much worse humor wise than this movie.

8. The original trilogy didn't have a plan. Lucas had no plans for after the first Star Wars movie. He can pretend he knew everything, but he didnt. As evidenced by things like Luke and Leia making out. I dont think it's a problem for this movie. Honestly, I like that its different. That they tried giving a different director a chance to do his own thing. Did it completely work? No, but I think quite a bit did. I also like that we have no idea where the third movie is headed. You talk in another point that they throw out plot points, but now we can't predict what's going to happen. I like that.

I understand a lot of people dont like this movie. And I dont think you're wrong in any point. We just feel differently. But for those points, that's why I liked them.