MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Why did The Last Jedi fail?

Why did The Last Jedi fail?

posted 5 years ago by TMC-4 (19416)
33 replies | jump to latest

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-The-Last-Jedi-fail

First Order comes up on the Rebels trying to make a last-minute escape. Then they end up in a long “race thru space” and end up on the base of a planet where Luke and Kylo can have a final lightsaber battle.

However, there needed to be a reason the Rebels would continue running, so there needed to be a major battle where the Rebels lost much of their fleet(enter the battle where Ackbar dies and Leia sort of dies but then doesn’t).

Then they had to figure out a way for the Rebels to be able to get to the planet without the First Order blowing them all up(enter Holdo and her hyperspace-defying act).

Who pilots this heroic suicide mission? It can’t be Leia. She needs to be on the planet to reunite with Luke, as the script doesn’t have time for their reunion anywhere else. Ackbar would have been a decent choice, but he had been chosen to die in the Raddus, so we need to create a new character, Holdo.

How does the First Order know to look for the fleeing Rebels? Well that is because Rose and Finn were betrayed by a codebreaker.

Why did Rose and Finn need to find the codebreaker? Because they were arrested for a parking violation when looking for the guy who supposedly was the only one in the galaxy who could disable the tracking device the First Order was using, and this random guy just happened to also be a “one-in-a-galaxy-codebreaker”. Imagine the odds of having 2 of those guys on the same planet at the same time?

Why did they need to search for this codebreaker? Because Poe didn’t trust Admiral Holdo when she said to trust her. He deduced that, since she wan’t willing to divulge any plan to a senior flight commander, that meant she didn’t have one, so he made his own.

Why were they in this situation? Because the fleet had been largely destroyed, Admiral Ackbar was dead, Leia (marry poppins) was in a coma, and Holdo was the next in line.

How did the fleet get destroyed? Because the First Order was tracking them.

Why was Poe not considered important enough to tell the plan to? Because he had been demoted by Leia after showing he was a hot-head and disobeying her direct order to disengage.

[–] AmeriGirl26 (12299) 5 years ago

Two words: Rian Johnson.

[–] SoCrates (868) 5 years ago

The man most directly responsible is Miles Bennett Dyson... I mean Rian Johnson.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I'm gonna buck the trend and say Kathleen Kennedy. Sure Ruin is an incompetent hack...but Kathy is the one that hired him.

[–] TandyMan (10364) 5 years ago

The "big beats" of the film all could have been justified. We live in a world where fans have debated the merits of the OT, and PT, forever. Entire films have been based around this. Endless youtube channels. Even books! To be so naive as to think we wouldn't dissect every f'n plotpoint of what they were presenting is tragically shortsighted. It can only be concluded there were after a CASHGRAB. A thoughtless cashgrab, pure and simple. A mean, angry, fanbase hating milking.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1320) 5 years ago

A large chunk of the fans disliked the story and the direction of the saga.

[–] janelsenor (2042) 5 years ago

I honestly dislike the pace and editing of this. It makes the drastic story choices even harder to swallow.

[–] Martoto (4173) 5 years ago

"He deduced that, since she wan’t willing to divulge any plan to a senior flight commander, that meant she didn’t have one, so he made his own."

He presumed. He didn't deduce. And he wasn't a senior flight commander. He was reduced to a captain by Leia at that point. And captains don't ordinarily enjoy the privilege of strategic information unless absolutely necessary. And stroking captain's egos is not a necsessity.

Just like he presumed when Leia told him to fall back instead of wasting the bomber squadron for dubious gain. Which is the reason he lost the trust of the Resistance high command.

The movie succeeded at the box office as the most profitable film of the year. And had the most BD sales. And has an average critical and popular reception that is very good. It only failed to please everyone . Particularly morons it would appear. Same as every movie ever made.

The problem is that empty vessels make most noise.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

It did, indeed make a profit, but so did the Transformer movies. A large box office isn't always a mark of quality.

And yes, it was popular with critics but audience scores are very low across the bard so it's more than just a few "morons" who dislike this movie.

[–] Martoto (4173) 5 years ago

"but audience scores are very low across the bard..."

One audience score was lower than the critic score. And much lower than the generally positive response in fan and audience polls across the board. I know this because every time a high poll result from fans come in, which is often, it's rejected because of that one audience result on one website.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

Perhaps you need to do some more research?

https://www.cnet.com/news/last-jedi-rotten-tomatoes-star-wars/

I pulled up an article that not only cited RT but also Metacritic so there are at least two sources with low audience scores. This was with a two second google search.

[–] Martoto (4173) 5 years ago

Perhaps you need spectacles. Metacritic produces an 85 score. And ranks it second best Star Wars film.

As for social media. "Empty vessels make the most noise" remember? And they are the ones that harp on about RT all the time while those with any sense or who know how statistical analysis works, chuck the anomaly out.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

Critics have a 85% score on Metacritic... not the audience.

The poor audience reception for "Last Jedi" is reflected in Metacritic scores too. ... There are currently more negative than positive user reviews out of the almost 1,500 posted. This leads to a mere 5.0 score.

Learn to read.

[–] Martoto (4173) 5 years ago

And yet the site still ranks it second.

Because they know that butt-ripped fanboys are the only people who react to not getting what they want, and other people's enjoyment, by scoring zero.

And the majority of scores are still either positive or mixed.

"Fail" Give yourself some peace."

These sites are gradually realising that the abuse of their audience rating section is undermining them. And it's so obvious. The Metacritic audience rating only started to plunge after the butt-ripped had got bored with voting it down on RT and nobody giving a shite because it was obvious what was going on.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

Oh, so we should now ignore all negative audience scores on these websites because of "butt ripped" people?

Nice goal post moving. I wonder how we should gauge the opinion of the audience now?

[–] Martoto (4173) 5 years ago

"I wonder how we should gauge the opinion of the audience now?"

Ignore twerps like you relying on shaky data. Yeah it failed with the audience who still went out and bought more copies of it on BD than any other film.

Ironic that you use Transformers in your argument and ignore that the audience rating for those are almost always higher than the critic ratings.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

I haven't bought a single copy of Last Jedi. I paid for two tickets (the wife and I) and that was the last time it got my money.

I'm still wondering where all the websites are that show it's super popular. Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic show the audience score is very low. I checked out Amazon and it only has about 3.5/5 stars and IMDb has it at 7.2/10. Those two websites show it's only marginally positive with audiences. So we have two sites with low scores and two sites with lukewarm scores.

Perhaps you should move the goalpost again? See if that helps.

[–] Martoto (4173) 5 years ago

Oh you didn't buy it so that means it's a failure.

Only 7.2 on IMDB you say. Well similarly scored films E.T. Artificial Intelligence and Minority Report all failed then.

Perhaps you should get a different hobby besides mangling common sense to ensure the enhanced stature of your sore anus.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

At no point did say it was a failure because I didn't buy it. Now you're just strawmaning.

And I specifically said the IMDB score was positive. Just not that impressive. While ET's score is surprising* , I'm not surprised by AI and Minority Report** as they have been mostly forgotten over the years. They were decent movies but nothing ground breaking and certainly not Spielberg's best.

Keep in mind, out of the big three review sites (RT, Meta critic, and IMDb), that one is the only one that had anything approaching decent numbers. Netflix doesn't show its numbers to the public so we don't know its popularity there. I had to try amazon to see this massive popularity you keep going on about. You realize the onus is on you here, right? You made the claim that all review sites gave Last Jedi a positive audience score except for one. If anything, the opposite is true. You need to start showing all these sites with high numbers.

* EDIT: I just checked and ET's score is at 7.9. It almost has an 8/10 rating. By comparison, Last Jedi is at 7.2 which means it is far closer to 6/10 than ET. Nice try though.

** ANOTHER EDIT: Likewise, Minority Report is at a 7.7 which is still higher than Last Jedi.

[–] Martoto (4173) 5 years ago

"At no point did say it was a failure because I didn't buy it."

Then why bring it up if it's got nothing to do with the discussion about TLJ being a failure.

Goodbye. TLDR the rest.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

Then why bring it up if it's got nothing to do with the discussion about TLJ being a failure.

I didn't bring up the subject of me spending money on the movie. You did.

Also, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Back up claims? Hahaha the dead brick broken record martoto?

Unlikely.

Expect the goals to be moved to an entirely new stadium.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

I see you have had the misfortune of engaging with this idiot before.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Star Wars fans will never , NEVER , be happy with any new star wars movie or spin off movie , ever , regardless of the quality of it.
So start preparing yourselves for disappointment - because you are un-pleasable.
I on the other hand have learned not to expect too much , and am just grateful for what we do get.

[–] AP (5258) 5 years ago

I liked Rogue One, Solo was okay, and I even thought Revenge of the Sith was decent (at least compared to the other prequels). I was disappointed in Force Awakens but most Star Wars fans like that as well.

The Last Jedi is simply not popular across the board. If you liked it, that's fine but don't pretend there's a small minority of people who hate it and without reason.

[–] hitfan (213) 5 years ago

I hated, hated, hated Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. But I actually liked Revenge of the Sith. So that makes me a traitor according to the diehard fans.

I liked The Force Awakens.

I thought The Last Jedi was flawed, but there were certainly some good parts (like the scene with Yoda). But it was certainly better than TPM and AOTC.

There are legitimate reasons do dislike certain Star Wars movies. Episodes I & II were plainly, quite bad.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

It didnt fail , I have no doubt it made billions