Kylo Ren in IX: Force Ghost or Irredeemably lost? - Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion

[–] Mats_Thy_Wit 7 years ago

I'm guessing he'll be redeemed...but in the back corner of my brain there is a part of me hoping that Snoke will use him to get Rey. I imagine a climax in which Rey kills a wounded Kyle Ren at Snoke's urging, falling to the dark side and taking Kylo Ren's place beside Snoke. I know nobody would let that happen, it'd be too "dark" and "controversial", but I think it'd be a great unexpected direction to take.

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[–] Foot_of_Davros 7 years ago

That wouldn't actually be too bad - certainly would take the story well off the rehash the OT path...

Only thing is that wouldn't leave any of the next generation alive on the light side.

The truth about Marti Pellow
https://youtu.be/C0VOJ0Z3vY0

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[–] Mats_Thy_Wit 7 years ago

I'm still operating under the assumption Rey will have a Skywalker connection. I'd also assume the next film would be her redemption.

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[–] Bag_of 7 years ago

Not sure what he was babbling about but i would think if he dies, whether a ghost or not, he wouldnt be giving that answer. Imo.

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[–] Foot_of_Davros 7 years ago

Not sure about babbling - would think that he would have been given fair warning of the questions for what seemed a pretty friendly promotional spot...

When he said "Depends on what your idea of living is..." re whether he survives into IX, my guess is that this hints at the final extinguishing of Ben Solo and his full delivery to the dark side.

This would fit in with JJ Abrams pre TFA comments that we would see the full evolution of the villain in this trilogy, as well as the hero.

He could just as easily be hinting as "living" as a force ghost though, so it was only really a tease I guess, nothing definite...

The truth about Marti Pellow
https://youtu.be/C0VOJ0Z3vY0

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[–] Bag_of 7 years ago

I dont really speak 'actor' but i think all the humanity stuff was saying that we'd see even more emotion from the already quite emotional villain and more focus on what he is instead of the current ambiguities like if he'll redeem himself etc.

The question about whether he lives...I just think any of the big actors who die wouldnt give that answer. Its a blatant spoiler question and should/would be dismissed with a wait and see answer. On the other hand if you are the main villain of a trilogy and its obvious you are going to make it through part two then it seems less spoilerish to question whether being ruled by snoke and wearing a mask and killing family members is really living. imo

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[–] Foot_of_Davros 7 years ago

it seems less spoilerish to question whether being ruled by snoke and wearing a mask and killing family members is really living

Agreed. I think that's exactly what he was hinting at.

Perhaps unlike Luke refusing to succumb to his hate, his anger will overcome him whilst trying to save Rey from the snokemeister, leaving him lost to the dark side. That could maybe play out quite well dramatically - better than Anakin's PT-style "fall"...

The truth about Marti Pellow
https://youtu.be/C0VOJ0Z3vY0

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[–] Bag_of 7 years ago

Yeah, pretty confusing that killing the bad guy could cement Kylo as the bad guy but then i guess its no more confusing than the OTs conclusion that NOT killing the bad guy made Luke the good guy. And yes, it would be great viewing. Actually thats pretty much how i saw the scene when he killed Han.

I suppose the problem is how to finish Kylo's story. Im not on board the Sir Jon Rossman train of full Kylo redemption but admittedly we cant be left celebratating the destruction of the son of han and leia with fist pumps and cheering at the end. He needs to finish with at least one decent act. Killing Snoke and then becoming more evil doesnt leave many outs.

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[–] Foot_of_Davros 7 years ago

Yes agreed, I don't want to see the Anakin story replayed with Kylo either...

Maybe Snoke killing off a refusing to turn Rey (a la Palpatine with Luke) would spark such hatred in him that he would be thrown irredeemably down the dark path. Maybe he wouldn't succeed in killing Snoke but would escape saving Rey, then disappear on his own dark path.

I could get onboard with that as it would give gravitas to Anakin being alone in escaping the dark side forever dominating his destiny, plus it would give us an interesting dynamic of warring dark siders going into IX.

The truth about Marti Pellow
https://youtu.be/C0VOJ0Z3vY0

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[–] Jeorj Euler 7 years ago

It might be interesting to see his essence transferred into a computer system, which is unusual for Star Wars, and thus awkward.

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[–] Sir_John_Rossman 7 years ago

Hopefully neither is the case. Hopefully he neither dies, nor is lost to the Dark Side

Hashtag: #Come home, Ben...

Maybe the "death" of Kylo Ren would signifying the emergence and "rebirth" or return of Ben (Skywalker) Solo.

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[–] Foot_of_Davros 7 years ago

It might be interesting to see his essence transferred into a computer system

Ha ha, good call 👍

I like this idea - robbed of a Tron Legacy sequel due to the Star Wars purchase, Disney does the decent thing by incorporating Tron into Star Wars itself!

Maybe they could work it the other way though - somehow one of the Star Wars discovers that they're actually "living" on an advanced CGI enhanced grid, with force powers for some just being in their programming!

The truth about Marti Pellow
https://youtu.be/C0VOJ0Z3vY0

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[–] SarahJConnor 7 years ago

perhaps he will be crippled and require full prosthesis like his hero.

imo

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[–] Sir_John_Rossman 7 years ago

perhaps he will be crippled and require full prosthesis

I seriously hope not. He needs to be himself. Ben Skywalker-Solo, the man he is meant to be. Not another Vader. It would be a terrible shame to see this already emotionally broken and tortured young man become "a machine" like his grandfather.

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[–] Foot_of_Davros 7 years ago

Sir John - I believe that Miss Connor was in all probability replying in context of the original question, i.e. Adam Driver's "Depends on what your idea of living is..." line...

What do you think that think he could have meant in terms of Kylo / Ben's surviving into Episode IX by that?

The truth about Marti Pellow
https://youtu.be/C0VOJ0Z3vY0

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[–] Sir_John_Rossman 7 years ago

Not sure. The popular thought may be he dies in VIII (hope not) or he is somehow crippled to the point of needing the kind of help Vader needed. Again, hope not. Maybe he goes through so much emotional trauma in VIII that he feels "dead" inside or wishes that he were dead. Whatever happens, we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

OR:

It could be that Adam was "playing" with the interview in fun...answering the question in such a way as to suggest: Wait and see. He would not want to give a direct yes or no answer to such an obvious "spoiler" question as: Does Kylo survive Episode VIII? If that's not fishing for information, I'm not sure what is.

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[–] Foot_of_Davros 7 years ago

It could be that Adam was "playing" with the interview in fun.

That could be true but I do find it a bit odd - it's not as if he was facing some hard hitting journalistic questioning so I'd suspect he'd obviously have been given the questions in advance and could have vetoed... The fact he didn't makes me think this was something of a "tease".

Here's a question for you though: If we take what he said as read, as a Kylo fan, if it was a choice between one or the other, would you rather see him partially redeemed saving Rey in VIII and being force ghosted for IX or lost to the dark side with no shot of redemption until, say, Episode XII?

The truth about Marti Pellow
https://youtu.be/C0VOJ0Z3vY0

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[–] Sir_John_Rossman 7 years ago

, if it was a choice between one or the other, would you rather see him partially redeemed saving Rey in VIII and being force ghosted for IX or lost to the dark side with no shot of redemption until, say, Episode XII?

It hurts me to think of this... you know that. Everyone on these boards who has read things I have put in these particular threads... knows how I feel about and for Kylo (Ben).

With that being said, if Kylo's redemption meant death to save the woman he cares for, the woman he ultimately loved, then I would rather he die to save Rey. Perhaps appearing to her as Obi-Wan did to Luke. Perhaps dying to save her life would convince Rey that Ben was not a monster. Still, I hope he lives and comes home to the Light Side of the Force again.

The Dark Side should not claim another Skywalker...especially not the one who may be the last.

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[–] HolyTrollingPontiff 7 years ago

That's what I was thinking.

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[–] politicidal 7 years ago

Figuratively. Then again even Vader was redeemed.

Whatever you are, be a good one.

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[–] Conan-1982 7 years ago

"Depends on what your idea of living is"

Finally something interesting ! Maybe he'll end up like that guy in The Force Unleashed game, there was one ending where he ends up being a semi-droid or something, if I remember correctly (it's been a while).

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[–] Sir_John_Rossman 7 years ago

Yes. The Dark Side Ending of The Force Unleashed ended that way.

As for me, I'm going to remember this and hold onto hope for Ben to come home.

https://oldadastra.tumblr.com/post/139406055519/the-story-of-kylo-ren-is-the-archetypal-journey-of

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[–] chris-r78 7 years ago

I think you're looking at that quote way too literally. It could just as easily mean that he's plagued by the guilt of what he has done, something to that effect, and in that sense his life has been taken from him.

Looking at Driver's other films, e.g. Patterson, he seems to have a lot of poetic tendencies. I wouldn't take a quote like that and think he's referring to being a force ghost.

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[–] Helene-B 7 years ago

Other possibilities:

- having lost his connexion with the Force (and all his powers)
- not dead, maybe having gone back to the light, but in jail for a long time for committing parricide, having tortured people and being complicit in the annihilation of the Hosnian system.

Okay, the second possibility here isn't very likely in a SW setting. I'd still love to see something like that, where a villain who redeems themselves doesn't automatically die doing so, but isn't absolved either of all their previous crimes...

But regarding your hypotheses, I'd say that if it were the first one I don't think Driver would have talked about it as a kind of living, since Force ghosts are necessarily dead people.
The complete fall to the Dark side could be a possibility. Maybe with Kylo Ren taking over Snoke and becoming the archenemy? Now that'd be interesting.

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