What? Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Cool, you were in the military. I don't know one service member who has agreed with the Iraqi war, and I know quite a few. I don't care how you spin it, we had absolutely zero reason to be in that country.
ISIS is our fault. We trained, supplied and funded them back in the day, then we turn around and gut Iraq, taking out a leader who was against Islamic terrorists, and left it wide open for the taking.
I'm not going to get into 9/11 conspiracy theories with you, but there is a lot to be desired from the official story. My favorite tale is that they found the hijackers passports in the middle of the street below the towers lol.
I'll go right ahead and keep hating my own government. We try to paint this picture that we are righteous, and its all bs. We have killed countless people throughout history, from slaves to bs wars, from sanctions and corporations, and everything in-between. Hell man, we don't even hold our own cops accountable for their actions, because they are there to protect the status quo more than anything else.
Are we the worst country? Certainly not. Are we a good country? Certainly not. In fact, I would argue that since we like to portray ourselves as the leaders of the free world, we should be held to a higher standard, just like cops who are suppose to serve and protect.
It's always been about power, conquest and money. It's never been about 'spreading democracy'. If it was, we would have invaded Saudi Arabia by now, since 11 of the 14 hijackers were from there, and there is evidence showing their top government had knowledge or was involved. We would have stopped the genocide in Rwanda. We wouldn't turn a blind eye to corporations like Nestle using child slave labor in South America, or Coke buying up lakes in Africa where the villages there need that water to survive, and turn around and charge them for said water. We wouldn't have a such a disparity between race in our country. We wouldn't have such a barbaric prison system, or an economic system that only benefits a few, with an education system that keeps us dumb, and an election system that has just become a charade.
We are only good as are bottom. We have a billion ways to improve and a lot of ways to grow, and we can start by not being the bullies of the world, and people wonder why there is so much hate out there for us. Don't become that feverish, blind fanatical patriot, who is just as fanatical as the religions terrorists, for indeed, blind patriotism is just if not more dangerous than fanatical religious extremists.
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sherbaum1985
8 years ago
I never said that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I was addressing a previous commenter who implied that the US constructed the attacks as an excuse to go to war, which I think is a ridiculous and moronic thing to believe. As for what you said, I do take the time to think critically about world events, but I will also 100% carry out the actions commanded of me by the officers appointed over me. In regards to OIF, I agree that part of it was about oil/money, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Oil is a huge industry and believe it or not, the world still needs it. We have significantly larger oil reserves under the soil of certain areas of the US, but the environmentalists won't allow us to access it, so where do we get our oil? Others say that we should switch to green energy, but we're nowhere near the point of being able to rely 100% on green energy. I'm not familiar with the genocide situation in Rwanda, so I can't respond to that.
It's a shame that someone like me is viewed as a fanatic because I believe in the US cause in the Middle East, but I'm still going to believe in it because I know what the end goal is for these operations. In regards to what you said about creating ISIS, I think it's funny that you worry about genocide in Africa but not in Iraq, because that's what was essentially happening over many decades under the leadership of Saddam Hussein, which is why we got rid of him and armed people who we thought were going to stabilize their own country without a dictator. Instead, we pulled out of Iraq prematurely before we had the ability to facilitate the development of a stable government, which ultimately led to a takeover by extremists.
At the end of the day, I am always going to do what is asked of me by my senior leaders. It's a part of what drew me to the military in the first place.
P.S. Your numbers are wrong. 15 out of 19 hijackers were Saudi.
P.P.S. I think it's a bit of a slap in the face to release this movie on Veterans Day, but that's just my opinion.
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Generationbetrayed
8 years ago
Saddam was no saint, but he was also against all the fanatical religions groups. He kept them at bay. Before we went into Iraq, Iraq was still alive, with people going here and there, going about their daily business. Iraq is far worse off now. We went in there, gutted it for no *beep* reason, and left it wide open for ISIS. 9/11 WAS an excuse to go into Iraq. Back in 1994, the council of foreign relations discussed about how to keep America on top. In this discussion, it was mentioned they would need a 'pearl harbor' like event to get public support to specifically *beep* with Iraq, Iran and N. Korea. Obviously things have changed since 1994, but we still took the opportunity to invade Iraq, under false pretenses.
You think its okay to invade countries and kill people for oil? See, that's the problem. You put your country above all others, including other people's lives.
If somebodies orders are morally *beep* I won't follow them. Neither will my kids. I'm making sure not to raise more tools.
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sherbaum1985
8 years ago
Ok. I'm still going to follow those orders. No one is going to convince me otherwise. Oil is a crucial international commodity, so yes....if people need to die over it, then so be it. I'm not delusional in thinking that we can all get along, hold hands, and sing Kumbaye by the campfire. Mankind has been engaging in battles since the days of the Neanderthal, whether it's over territory, ideologies, or commodities.
As for putting my country's needs over others...you're right. I absolutely will put my country's needs over all others, including my own.
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activista
7 years ago
@sherbaum
America did NOT have to invade either Kuwait or Iraq for oil---that was simply sheer greed on the part of both Bushes, who simply wanted to get control of oil in the Middle East. You're clearly delusional thinking that s*** was okay in any shape or form.
Oil is a crucial international commodity, so yes....if people need to die over it, then so be it.
So, basically you're saying that the Iraq war was perfectly justified? That's sickening and disgusting. No,people shouldn't have had to die over no damn oil---you're just been drinking the patriotic koolaid for too long.
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sherbaum1985
7 years ago
If getting control over the oil was really a priority, then so be it. I'm fine with drinking the "patriotic kool aid" as you call it. I'd rather do that than complain about an operation that no longer exists.
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Generationbetrayed
7 years ago
Haha, enjoy living life being ignorant. Killing people for oil is okay. Next we can kill people for their homes. Then their wives. Jesus man.
You are what's wrong with the world. You are just as bad as the terrorists. That is the kind of mentality they have.
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sherbaum1985
7 years ago
Nothing you say is going to convince me to disobey any orders that I receive during my career in the military. OIF is over and done with anyway. I'm done wasting my time with you.
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activista
7 years ago
sherbaum:
Yeah, you have well and truly drunken way too damn much of the kool-aid. Getting control of oil (which we already have enough of--hell, we get a good portion of it from Saudi Arabia and various other countries) does NOT alone justify invading another country---especially one that never invaded us (Iraq) and was never any real threat to us in the first damn place. It's that arrogant might-makes-right attitude that's gotten us in so much trouble with other countries to begin with. And then we wonder why some of them can't stand America, or don't even trust us---not hard to figure why, given the U.S. history of invading other countries for profit and control of said profits. Basically, you're saying that it's okay for America to go around invading other countries no matter what,even without any real reason to do so. You can believe whatever you're been brainwashed to believe, but that's on you to eventually start using you own critical thinking skills--which you clearly haven't developed yet.
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sherbaum1985
7 years ago
So basically if I don't agree with you, I'm not using critical thinking skills to analyze the Iraq war? Screw you dude. I've definitely put thought into the Iraq war, especially since it was going on for about half of my 12 years of military service thus far. I've thought about it while hearing about my fellow brothers and sisters in arms dying in Iraq. I even agreed that part of the justification for going there was oil. However, I think it's difficult for you to wrap your mind around the fact that I'm fine with it in the long run and that many others feel the same way.
At the end of the day you're going to continue spewing your anti-war sentiment and I'll continue to be realistic in knowing that war is a continuous aspect of mankind. Whether it's over territory, commodities, revenge, or ideologies, war has been a constant part of life since the dawn of man. Get over it.
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cyguration (3834)
3 years ago
However, I think it's difficult for you to wrap your mind around the fact that I'm fine with it in the long run and that many others feel the same way.
If you're fine killing innocent people -- men, women and children -- for natural resources we didn't HAVE to steal from Iraq, then I'm afraid activista is absolutely right about you: you're no better than ISIS or the other terrorists that attacked America.
It makes me sick this is what some of our armed forces think, that killing innocent people is well and justified so long as they're told to do so.
People like this don't deserve to be called American, nor to be called a fellow countrymen.
You're no better than the camel-humping sand-thumpers.
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Reverend_Powell
7 years ago
If getting control over the oil was really a priority, then so be it. I'm fine with drinking the "patriotic kool aid" as you call it.
Lol, this is what happens when the bottom 10% of our classes have nothing better to do with their lives.
"There are too many of them. Can't kill the world."
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sherbaum1985
7 years ago
Oooh....ow...... you really got me there.
Get over yourself and stop pretending you're some enlightened saint. I joined the military by choice knowing full well of the requirements of me to follow orders, as did the guy in this movie. I also graduated summa cum laude from college with a Bachelors degree while in the military and have worked with plenty of military folks who are very intelligent. What do we have in common? A sense of dedication to a higher calling and commitment to military values, something you and all of the other "activists" on here seem to know NOTHING about.
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znapper
7 years ago
Ok. I'm still going to follow those orders. No one is going to convince me otherwise. Getting rid of the jews is a crucial international commodity, so yes....if jews need to die over it, then so be it. I'm not delusional in thinking that we can all get along, hold hands, and sing Kumbaye by the campfire. Mankind has been engaging in battles since the days of the Neanderthal, whether it's over territory, ideologies, or commodities.
As for putting Das Reich's needs over others...you're right. I absolutely will put my country and Führer's needs over all others, including my own
Following orders that are obvious war-crimes makes the foot-soldier just as guilty as the leader who gave the order to begin with.
This was established (ironically, mostly from the initiative of the US) in Nürenburg in 1945-1946 already.
Do you also think that water-boarding isn't torture?
is torture ok?
Hint: Torture is a war-crime and your illiterate idiot president G.W.B and his henchmen Rumsfeldt (Himmler) and Cheney (Goering) not only approved it, they systemized it and created an infrastructure for it (CIA-prisons on various countries and Gitmo).
I would not be in your shoes, should you ever find yourself a POW, because you will simply be defined as a non-combatant and tortured until you say anything, agree to anything and create any story about anyone you have ever met in your life, to get out of it.
Good luck to you, thanks to the actions since 2003, the world is back at 1914 concerning human rights in war.
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khaled yaghi (5)
7 years ago
Dude , you didn't imply Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 , and there were no WMD's in Iraq , so enlighten us on why your leaders decided to invade Iraq.
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activista
7 years ago
@generationbetrayed
You spoke the truth, for real. That's all these last couple of wars have been about.
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