MovieChat Forums > Show Me a Hero (2015) Discussion > Yonkers full of Middle class Racists ?

Yonkers full of Middle class Racists ?


Then and now? Sad reflection on NEw York

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It's not just Yonkers. I live in Atlanta and a lot of the middle class people (who happen to be white) act exactly like this whenever there's talk of expaning the public transit system to their neighborhoods. Not saying all white people are like that but it seems like they are the ones most upset about it.

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White people are the minority in Atlanta. If the black population wanted to expand public transit, they would have the majority vote.

Also, why do you think it is racist to not want public transit in your neighborhood?

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I've lived in Yonkers since 1994. It's full of racists but anymore than any other place?

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Even though civil rights are slowly being upheld in the courts, little by little over the years, the idea that racism as a whole will drastically be reduced is just naive. It's here to stay. It might be able to be controlled, at times, in certain areas, but it will eventually always fluctuate. It's simply a part of human nature that some people are unable to overcome.

For an example of its widespread mentality, you only need to consider the current (as of summer 2015) popularity of the GOP's leading presidential candidate who wants to "Make America Great Again."


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It is disturbing that Candidate "Make America Great Again" is so blatantly appealing to white fears of perceived infringements on their privileges by non-whites. How sickening is it that people are unashamedly rallying to the "America Ain't Great If It Ain't White" message?

You are right that racism is ingrained and hard to fight, but we have seen enough progress in the last 60 years that we should take some heart and continue to chip away.

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I do think a lot of Trump supporters are racists like the guy who said "get out of my country" to Jorge Ramos. The push to build a wall on the Mexican border does sound like racism if there is not an equal push to build a wall on the Canadian border.

Say Trump had his way and we deported all people who are here illegally and we ended birthright citizenship. My question is, what is to be gained, if anything from doing this? Will all of our problems go away all of the sudden?

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Why is it racist to keep people from illegally entering the United States? There is not a problem on the Canadian border like there is on on the Mexico border.

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We are targeting the brown people and leaving the white people alone. On some level that's racist.

Putting that aside, what will deporting all illegals and ending birthright citizenship accomplish? Does anyone know, because I do not. It has to be for a better reason than catharsis.

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Maybe for self-hating liberals with white guilt it's racist, but in reality it's not racist at all. And I'm not saying building a wall is right or wrong, I just find it funny how you have to scream racism when there's nothing racist about it. It's about gaining entrance into a country legally.

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"Liberals," "White Guilt" are typical responses from surface level, basic individuals such as yourself. If you were honest or had any knowledge on the issue, you would know that we've had record deportations in the past 6 years. People from these Latin American countries come here because they want better economic prospects, like so many other past generations who enjoy them today. They come here because of our indirect involvement in their politics, such as our escalation of the drug war that has worsened conditions across North America. More than 40% of these people come here by plane, it's ridiculous to think that a wall is going to make things better.

Also, why are people vehemently complaining about these people who come here supposedly undercutting our workforce by accepting lower pay instead of the businesses and corporations that lobbied for this situation to happen in the first place? You're telling me that if you and your family lived in conditions so bad that drug gangs ruled supreme and you had the work experience necessary, that you wouldn't risk coming here? It's these same companies that trump up these people as the scapegoats and feed into the people's fears so they can project their worries onto them and a lot of their fears are rooted in racism.

See the ongoing themes of misunderstanding and misdirection at work here?

"...Because we can't masturbate in theaters."

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Learn to read moron. I never said a wall would be good or bad. I said there's nothing racist about wanting people to come here legally. If you disagree, so be it.

And there are some great liberals out there, but not the self-hating ones.

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Idiot, I did read your response, try harder next time at comprehending mine. I listed the reasons as to why this entire thing is a f-ing farce using Mexicans as a scapegoat rather than a bunch of "whiny white liberals" getting bent out of shape at some surface level *beep* like you pulled with the problem being just the racist sentiment behind this. Now you believe there are some white liberals that aren't "self-hating." I think the shoe is on the other foot. Many more who aren't self-loathing because of their skin rather than there are Rachel Dolezal wannabes.

"...Because we can't masturbate in theaters."

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You mouth-breathing Neanderthal, you are arguing just to argue. Now two posts you have gone off on tangents without ever reading my posts. I really don't care about your lists, I simply stated strengthening security at the border is not racist. Now go off on another nonsensical rant about whatever it is you are trying to get across.

God bless.

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Perhaps we could tone down the language here but in essence you're absolutely right. There is a reason countries have borders. Borders should be respected. It should be up to the country to control its population inflows as they see fit.

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"God Bless" You are a human of utmost civility and astounding comprehensive skill, truly. Your patronizing holy-ness aside, try to understand what I'm saying. Here goes, my argument is that these people are scapegoated by the use of propaganda that DOES pryy on people's racism by inciting fear, unfounded fear. Net immigration is virtually zero and the lowest in half a decade. The crime from these countries has not escalated our numbers either. Many of the 11 million currently here are here on expired Visas. "Stronger border security" is just political chest-pouting from politicians who don't even have an outline for a plan to improve on what the reality actually is. Now, if you want to ignore my concise points to you again; I'll bold them below so that there's no confusion and so I'll know for sure whether you're getting my point or that you, like so many others on the internet, revel in the cowardice of hurling insults with total anonymity.

my argument is that these people are scapegoated by the use of propaganda that DOES prey on people's racism by inciting fear, unfounded fear. Net immigration is virtually zero and the lowest in half a decade. The crime from these countries has not escalated our numbers either. Many of the 11 million currently here are here on expired Visas. "Stronger border security" is just political chest-pouting from politicians who don't even have an outline for a plan to improve on what the reality actually is.

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Haha. I knew you'd get all up in arms about someone mentioning God. You are so predictable and your "arguments" which I never asked for still have nothing to do with the topic, that strengthening our borders is or isn't racist. It's all within reach kid.

God bless.

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Ah, so your depths are as shallow as I thought they were. I shouldn't be surprised on a board about a miniseries that delves into the thinly veiled reactions and coded rhetoric used to fight against the desegregation of white and minority neighborhoods, that the irony is completely lost on you.

You started by saying "strengthening our borders isn't at all based in racism" and I told you that the immigration threat/scare from the south to our national security is exactly that, a scare preying upon people's racism via fear of a South American threat to our way of life that invokes similar rhetoric like that used in this miniseries without any actual data of rising trends of violence and criminal activity. This is a discussion board, if you don't want someone to reply to your statements, don't make them and don't get snooty and ignorant to my response to this point (for the third time now) by calling it a tangent and putting "arguments" in quotes, it does not make you look smarter nor understanding of the topic.

I'm sure you'll want to try and satiate your self-righteous arrogance afterwards with a reply by having the last word. So be true to yourself. I regret again trying to have a political discussion with someone online.



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I accept your fold. Next time don't play with the big boys, and if you do, stick to the topic kid.

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You trolling? Anyone who uses the terms "white guilt" and "liberals" is usually a complete idiot. Border control is not racist but the current support for it is based in unfounded racist fears. Immigration is at a stark low, and there is no evidence to suggest a wall would do anything other than waste taxpayer money.

If you want to get angry about something then read about "Citizens United" and start pushing for campaign finance reform.

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Uhoh. Touched a nerve.

"Border control is not racist..."

Exactly. Thanks for agreeing with me.

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Not at all. I am happy to inform you :)

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The us and canada invested enormous amounts of money into that border in the nineties. Dozens of millions are spent yearly on it. It s nothing like it was in the past century now.

my vote history:
http://www.imdb.com/user/ur13767631/ratings

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It's a two way street though there are plenty of black/Hispanic/Asian/etc who hate white people because of stereotypes too...

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And from what I remember, the minorities who "made it" and lived outside the projects weren't that keen on the low income housing being built in their neighborhoods either.

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Encouraging people to come here illegally is not being kind to them. First, they usually have to pay a smuggler or someone to help them get here, who many times continues to charge them for that "service" once they're here. They risk rape, torture & death when they trust these criminals to help them. Then, when they get here, they're expected to work in practically slave labor conditions at the mercy of almost everyone they come in contact with. It would be much kinder to send U.S. community organizers (like Obama) to their countries to help them organize & protest their own governments to change conditions there. That would help keep their families together. People will still want to come to the U.S. and that is good because we are a nation of immigrants and LEGAL immigration does strengthen us.

Let's stop insisting that the U.S. taxpayers are cruel & breaking up families because we don't want our government taking half our income, which we need to support our own families, and using it to support people who are here illegally. Let's blame the oligarchs & dictators in these other countries who horde their countries' wealth and don't provide healthcare, housing, jobs & food for their poor citizens. The wealth inequality in those countries is much worse than it is here.

All countries have immigration laws that are enforced to prevent illegal immigration. Why are U.S. citizens who expect our government officials to enforce our immigration laws called racists, bigots, etc. while citizens of these other countries aren't? Mexico deported more than 105,000 Central Americans in 2014, mostly Hondurans and Guatemalans. During the first two months of 2015, Mexican authorities deported an additional 25,069 Central Americans, according to government statistics.

Why are we criticized for wanting to end using the 14th Amendment to justify "birthright citizenship?" Very few countries give citizenship to the children born to illegal immigrants. In 2012, the Law Library of Congress took a comprehensive look at France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain and the U.K. and found that none of those countries automatically give citizenship to children born to undocumented immigrant parents.

The 14th Amendment is being misinterpreted to justify illegal activity and allocate U.S. tax dollars to pay for the welfare of people here illegally.

The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

"subject to the jurisdiction thereof," is the key phrase

The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. It was written to prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States. It was not intended to give birthright citizenship to children of illegal immigrants.

In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by stating:

"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

This understanding was reaffirmed by Senator Edward Cowan, who stated:

"[A foreigner in the United States] has a right to the protection of the laws; but he is not a citizen in the ordinary acceptance of the word..."

The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude U.S. born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the U.S. was not complete. With illegal immigrants who are unlawfully in the U.S., their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. The completeness of their allegiance to the U.S. is impaired, which precludes automatic citizenship. The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that an illegal immigrant mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby.

The Supreme Court appropriately confirmed this interpretation of citizenship in the "Slaughter-House cases" [83 US 36 (1873) and 112 US 94 (1884)]13. In the 1884 Elk v.Wilkins case12, the phrase "subject to its jurisdiction" was interpreted to exclude "children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States."

The Court essentially stated that the status of the parents determines the citizenship of the child. To qualify children for birthright citizenship, based on the 14th Amendment, parents must owe "direct and immediate allegiance" to the U.S. and be "completely subject" to its jurisdiction. In other words, they must be United States citizens. The original intent of the 14th Amendment was clearly not to facilitate illegal immigrants defying U.S. law and obtaining citizenship for their offspring, nor obtaining benefits at taxpayer expense. U.S. citizens must be wary of elected politicians voting to illegally extend our generous social benefits to illegal immigrants and other criminals.

The argument that we need illegal immigrants to do jobs American citizens won't do for the pittance the illegals will work for, is more cruel to the illegals than wanting them to come here legally instead of illegally. That's saying they're not worthy of a fair wage. The South used that economic argument as an excuse for slavery. The U.S. became a better country when slavery ended and will become an even better, stronger country for LEGAL immigrants when illegal immigration ends. We should enforce the immigration laws we already have, secure the border & encourage legal immigration. The governments of the countries the illegals are coming from should provide their citizens with the benefits they're seeking when they come here.

Trump has mentioned the Fair Tax, but hasn't committed to it. Our next President & Congress need to commit to passing the Fair Tax. It will ameliorate this issue & many others. It replaces all the taxes that come out of income with a consumption tax. Then, the government doesn't get to confiscate our tax money before we receive the money we've earned.

We decide when & how we pay taxes based upon what we choose to spend money on. If we choose to buy new goods, we pay the consumption tax; if we choose to buy used goods, we don't. For example, buy a new car, pay the tax; buy a used car tax free.

This includes people here illegally. This tax law won't stop people from coming here illegally & getting free medical care, etc., but it will mean when they spend money here, they'll be contributing to the cost of our federal government which includes the benefits they're coming here to receive.

I understand the view that even if we send every person who's here illegally back to where ever they came from & don't allow anyone else in illegally, it won't stop the government's mismanagement of our tax dollars, so it wouldn't improve our schools or anything else that's been argued.

Ever since our predecessors were tricked into allowing congress to start taxing our income and confiscating it through withholding, they've been spending it like it's their money they inherited from some rich uncle with a bottomless pit of cash. They're never going to stop until we repeal the 16th Amendment, abolish the IRS, & enact the Fair Tax so that every citizen is paying attention to exactly how much money the government is taking from them & what they're doing with that money.

For people who prefer a progressive tax (meaning wealthy people pay more), the Fair Tax does that. Wealthy people spend a lot more money than poor people or middle class people, therefore they will pay a lot more in consumption taxes without any loopholes, like the ones in our current 74,000+ page tax code that only the high priced lawyers know how to manipulate to keep their wealthy clients from paying the percentage of the income bracket they're in.

Everyone, PLEASE, read about the Fair Tax and talk to your representatives about it.

www.fairtax.org

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Racism may never go away completely, but I think what we're seeing now is white people reacting with fear to the notion that we won't always be the majority.

Once that happens, and the world doesn't end, I think it'll calm down again.

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America is full of middle class racists. Similar events have played out all throughout the country, particularly in the northern states where a lot of cities remain largely segregated.

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Europe too.

Let's not kid ourselves.

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So in your opinion largely segregated areas equal racism?

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And if there is anything that non-whites do, that can seem irrational/counterproductive etc, whitey is to blame?

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The definition of integration is the short time between when the first black family moves in until the last white family moves out. When public housing was predominantly white residents, the biggest problems were walking on the lawns or playing ball in front of the building. So sick of this liberal *beep* blaming racism. How about the fact that the poor minorities destroy every place they live?

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What you just said it utter rubbish. In fact the show demonstrates perfectly why you are so wrong. And yes, you are a racist :)

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Liberals and conservatives alike live in some sort of bubble where they refuse to believe that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Anyone who believes that there are absolutely no negative consequences to the surrounding area by introducing low income housing is in denial.

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My grandparents were born in Yonkers in the early 20th century, children of eastern European immigrants. My father was born and raised in Yonkers. My grandfather was a blue collar worker who used ethnicity to identify and malign just about everyone...Italians, Jews, Irish, Blacks, Arabs, Asians. He was the type who played ball and drank beer after work, and got into fights in the bar. To me, he was Yonkers, but I never lived there so it isn't really fair of me to make such characterizations. My grandfather passed away in 1997, the ornery old coot. I miss him.

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