MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015) Discussion > I am in the minority...

I am in the minority...

posted 5 years ago by modica (4169)
77 replies | jump to latest

Didn't like this at all, but The Last Jedi was good. Different strokes, I guess.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

Pleanty of people have come to realize that TFA sucks but most people do seem to feel that TLJ was worse. I'm of the opinion that TLJ was certainly "better" than TFA but still bad, mostly due to the awfulness it inherited from TFA.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

For a series of movies that only had 2 good movies(Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back), people really shouldn't be that upset or surprised about The Last Jedi or any new incarnation of Star Wars. Movies were different back in the late 70's, so any attempt to relive the magic of Star Wars would fail no matter what we are presented with.

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[–] Burk48917 (10966) 5 years ago

I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying, but I think a lot of the problem is trying to hold too close to the original story. They should just use obscure parts of the universe as inspiration, but keep away from Luke,han,etc... or anything remotely relating to them.Those characters are too dear to everyone, and can never live up to the nostalgia again.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Movies were different back in the late 70's, so any attempt to relive the magic of Star Wars would fail no matter what we are presented with.

Remember this exchange in "The Breakfast club"? (paraphrasing)
Teacher: "I don't get kids these days"
Janitor: "The kids haven't changed Bill, you have"

That is why no Star Wars film will be like the good ones:
a) you're not a kid anymore
b) you've seen a star wars film before

I think both TFA and TLJ are about as good as they can be.

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[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

TFA and TLJ are about as good as modern Hollywood can make them.

You can always create magic, but you need skill. And talent. A few months ago a recent movie blew my mind. But that movie had what TFA and TLJ hadn't: lots of talent.

That what happens when you throw away meritocracy, and it's just starting.

By the way, Jar Jar Abrams is gonna make a live version of that movie I was talking about (Your Name). When you don't have real talent, you copypaste.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

are you going to tell us what the recent movie was that blew your mind?

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[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

I said it: Your Name.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5311514/

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

haha , sorry my bad.
I didnt read properly

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[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

For a series of movies that only had 2 good movies(Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back)

The Return of the Jedi is a good adventures movie. It's worse than the two previous ones, that's true, but it still could easily beat most of modern Hollywood pop-corn movies.

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[–] furiousstyles (4359) 5 years ago

TFA was good , TLJ was awful , that’s not TFA fault , that’s on rian Johnson

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

That's your opinion which i do not share. TFA was a total, totally uninspired knockoff. It was a lazily thrown together clusterf*ck & the mess was dumped on Johnson to salvage.

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[–] furiousstyles (4359) 5 years ago

Johnson to salvage? what exactly? TFA set up some good story arcs, Johnson created his own artistic vision for star wars that was an utter abomination, TFA is built on the same formula that the OT used, but its still its own story, think your being bit of a drama queen

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

Feel free to enjoy TFA as much as you like but it's pretty much objectively an uninspired soft reboot of the OT that utterly fails to stand on it's own. There's not a thing self contained about it. It's only the most in denial fanboys who believe Abram's plot holes often disguised as his cheap "mystery box" sequel bait, qualify as "good story arcs". I'm not trying to convince you not to like crap films like TFA. TFA has been utterly picked apart since it's release & there's so much out there that there's really nothing more I need to add.

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[–] furiousstyles (4359) 5 years ago

There's always a small minority that will pick it apart, most critics and audiences loved it

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

The same incentivized, shill critics who loved TLJ just as much.

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[–] furiousstyles (4359) 5 years ago

The audience didn’t rate tlj highly , there’s a difference

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

Hype+denial can only last so long with an audience. Incentivized shill critics are more reliable.

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[–] furiousstyles (4359) 5 years ago

U keep reaching kid

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

No need to be petty. As I said you're free to like bad films all you want.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

I'm posting here since box got too slim. I wasn't aware a storm trooper went rogue in a new hope. Do I need to see it again?

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[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

Overall I think I would rather watch TLJ but that's also like asking me would I rather drink ammonia or hydrochloric acid.

Both movies are bad but they are bad in different ways, I think the TFA offends me a little bit more though than TLJ.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

The Force Awakens had no soul. It was so empty and did not feel like a Star Wars movie. I did not like it. The Last Jedi was better.

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[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

Completely agree, why everyone seemed to love TFA back in 2015 I have yet to figure out. I mean freaking Chris Stuckmann goes "now before this there were only 2 Star Wars films I really loved (Empire and A New Hope), well now there's 3", and I was like are you freaking kidding me????

Yeah TFA sucks.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

Stuckmann's comments are generally not to be taken seriously. Some of his reviews, especially as of late, have had me wondering how this guy has so many followers. I have had to pick my jaw up off the floor after listening to some of his reviews lately. I actually unsubscribed to his channel due to the fact that he doesn't know what he is talking about.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

How dare he have a different opinion than you.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

It isn't about him having a different opinion at all, but he isn't paying attention to the movie and makes comments that just aren't accurate. One movie review was so off that he had many people correcting him. He is either tired when he watches movies now or he has just seen so many that he isn't able to properly see what everyone else sees.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Here is what I find funny. People who dislke tfa act like in order for it to be considered good by others it needs your stamp of approval. Bottom line you dislike it. No amount of good writing about why a person likes it is going to sway you. A movie doesn't need to get through you in order for others to consider it a good film.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

My point is that there are many people who dislike TFA, but most don't cling to IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic. It isn't something they do. I once rated movies on all those sites, but I haven't in over 2 years due to the fact that I find the ratings generally not very accurate. Many people vote 1's and 10's on IMDB, for instance, just to screw with the ratings. Let's be honest, there aren't many movies that are that bad or that good to be given such extreme ratings points.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Yep the vocal minority sure. Thing is though overall tfa is considered good by the majority. Look at rating for a film like Batman & Robin. The overall consensus by the majority for that film is negative. Not the case for tfa.

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[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

Just a heads up this guy is trolling you. He has a very unnatural obsession with me and he follows me onto every thread I post on and says the exact opposite of what I say. If I said I loved the force awakens he would say he hated it. It’s a very immature strategy and quite frankly a little creepy

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Nope there are certain films you like that I do also. However there are plenty I disagree with. Tfa being one of them.

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[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

Ummmmm OK good for you.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

At least it's objectively better than the prequels according to the data.

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[–] furiousstyles (4359) 5 years ago

The majority of people disagree , the audience scores would suggest TFA was better which i agree with, TLJ was pretty bad

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

I wouldn't go that far. Maybe the vocal ones say that, but I have talked to many people who feel that The Force Awakens wasn't all that. I remember when episode one came out, people thought it was great at first, but as time went on opinions changed. I think that this may happen again with The Force Awakens. It isn't a good Star Wars movie.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

The data showcases people overall enjoy TFA. It is better received on Rotten tomatoes, metacritic and on imdb than any of the prequels were. Imdb is the largest user website. So even if we don't include critics the average person thinks tfa is good.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

The public isn't always a good gauge of what is good or bad. Hitler had lots of followers too. That might be an extreme example, but it just showcases my point.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Here is the thing about that. I dislike Pulp Fiction. I know though that it is beloved by many people. Simply because I personally don't like it doesn't mean other people can't consider it a classic film. You are in the minority in thinking it is bad just like how I am with Pulp Fiction.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

We will have to just disagree because there are lots of people who don't like The Force Awakens and you can take that from a man who was a big fan of Star Wars as a kid in 1977. There are lots of fans who were there from the beginning who feel the same, but don't bother with ratings and nonsense like that.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Show me the majority you are speaking of. I cite the ratings because whether you agree or disagree it is an indication of what the mass majority thinks. Only thing you are offering me is your word. Why should I believe you? With ratings you don't have to believe me, you can look it up yourself. What's going on here is the mass majority doesn't line up with what you think therefore it makes you insecure. Personally I have never been a fan of Star Wars. I think the OT was always over hyped and overrated. So I gotta be honest I laugh when people say this movie ruined their childhood. It makes me glad it ruined their memories of Star Wars. It makes me like these Disney films even more.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

You rely too much on ratings. Mass audience ratings have never mattered much to me. I would rather listen to people who have watched as many or more movies than I have. Also, people who have an interest in many different genres and many different types of movies would have my ear. Mass audiences who just see blockbusters are not a valid gauge for me. I am interested in people who will see The Double Life of Veronique one night, Whose Afraid of Virginia Woolf another night and Spiderman, Homecoming a third night. I don't care what the general public thinks. I like to hear what people who are well versed in movies think. The Force Awakens got a 8.0 on IMDB which is pretty good, but not stellar. Anyhow, we can go round and round and never agree, so it ends here for me.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

You just shot yourself in the foot. Chris stuckmann sees all kinds of movies. Anyway you act as if Rotten tomatoes and metacritic only review blockbusters.

Lighthouse, parasite all are getting great reception and those are not mainstream films. I see all kinds of films and I don't care what the majority thinks. Thing is I do step in when people try to change facts or what the masses thought of a film. Which is what you did. So yeah wise to step away before you embarass yourself.

Episode 9 is coming whether you like it or not. I hope you hate it more than tfa so I can laugh as you pay money to see it, then laugh once you proceed to complain.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

Stuckmann hasn't seen as many movies or the vast array of movies that I have. Sure he will occasionally watch something that is off the beaten path, but I am sure he has never seen or reviewed movies like Begotten, Sweet Movie or The Innocents. He generally sticks to movies that are fairly popular.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

So then you think all critics on rottentomatos and metacritic only see big mainstream films?

Also I must ask is it possible to be extremely well versed in films and still like tfa?

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

I generally don't go to Rotten Tomatoes to listen to critics, but no, I don't think they only see mainstream films, but a good number of them don't see as many offbeat movies that I have.

Yes, you can be extremely well versed in movies and like The Force Awakens. The difference is most of those people will give reasons for me to chew on why they liked it. The general public aren't as articulate or interesting when they discuss why they like or dislike a film. I love discussing movies and can have a good chat with someone I disagree with, especially if they have a good background in watching cinema. That is something I actually like.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Well that is good. Thing is I watch lots of movies and honestly thought tfa was good.

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[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

I heard the "you will still pay to see Star Wars" line repeatedly after TLJ. Then Solo was released and nobody paid. Episode IX will do better but nowhere near TLJ's numbers.

Star Wars is dead and that won't change without a wholesale replacement of the executives at Lucasfilm, beginning with Kathleen Kennedy.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Fat chance! Episode 9 will gross tons of cash. Out of 4 films they have released only one tanked. The other 3 grossed over a billion. This one will also. Sorry bud Disney ain't going anywhere.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

Some people are simply hell bent on riding the denial train forever. Not much you can do for them.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Or drum roll we just don't agree with you.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

What TFA defenders fail to realize when touting ratings & reviews as "evidence" of the quality of the film they fail to see that the overwhelming majority the votes & reviews were cast in the peak of unprecedented hype TFA was receiving. It's going to take years of TFA's steadily declining reputation to have significant impact on these ratings sites.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Get back to me when tfa dips below the prequels on imdb, Rotten tomatoes and metacritic.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

Either way my point remains the ratings on rotten tomatoes and the like are reflective of the knee jerk positive response following the unprecedented hype at the time. The votes were already in but TFA's reputation has already declined significantly from that time and will continue.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Doesn't matter. It is better than the prequels and won't dip below those. Truth is there is no pleasing star wars fans. They put those original films on too high of a pedestal. It's popular to hate anything after Empire strikes back.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

You are fully entitled to like bad movies. Some of us however always knew and many more have come to realize that TFA is a terrible film in general and an abomination of a Star Wars fanfic nowhere near the prequels which were actual Star Wars films and not soulless and exploitative cash grabs that poorly repackaged & reboot the OT via corporate committee.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

And you are fully within your right to enjoy the prequels which were terrible films. Just realize some of us actually appreciate that tfa was made and got that awful taste of the prequels out of our mouths. Also the OT is overrated in my book LOTR is a way better trilogy. Every film is made with the intent of making money genius. You think the prequels were made out of the generosity of Lucas's heart? He intended to make money off those prequels just as Disney intended to make money off these new films. Stupid point.

Allow the mass majority of grown ups and the majority to enjoy our new films in peace. Episode 9 is happening whether you like it or not. We don't need your stamp of approval in order to consider these new films good. You are in the minority and honestly I put more stock in the mass majority and critics over you. Now shut up buy a ticket to episode 9 and proceed to whine about how it destroyed your childhood. As I said the fact that people like you hate these new movies make me enjoy them even more. It makes me happy when I hear it destroys people's childhood.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

I'm happy for you that you are able to be force fed sh*t by Di$ney and eat it with a smile and ask for seconds. I'll just stick with the true Star Wars films episodes 1 through 6 that actually had a spark of creativity, vision and excellent world building by the franchise's creator as opposed to this cheap corporate knock off disgrace, pimped out by a soulless Di$ney committee. Hell will freeze over before i spend a scent on any of this garbage.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Oh I know how dare I have a different opinion than you. I must be a person who has no taste because I enjoy something you don't. Yeah Lucas is the creator therefore that makes his films exempt from being criticized. The prequels were considered a cinematic failure and terrible by the mass majority of people as well as critics. Just because he is the creator doesn't give him some sort of free pass to put out trash. Nor does it make his films exempt from criticism.

I at least can respect the fact that you won't pay that is if you stick to your word. Episode 9 is happening don't like it too bad go watch those trash prequels.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

What part of I'm happy for you that you enjoy being force fed Di$ney's fecal matter by the mouthfull & paying for the privilege isn't getting through? By all means have at it while those of us steer clear of the dumpster fire.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Good and I'm glad you enjoy those trash prequels. Hayden Christensen was just so great as a young Vader. With lines such as it's not fair! Totally something a young Vader would say. That doesn't at all sound like a whiny brat. At least Vader was cool once we got to him. The guy we were waiting to see for decades returned. I'm so glad we didn't just get a 5 minute cameo where all he did was yell no. Oh wait... Remember Lucas's name is on it though so it can't be criticized. Same goes for kingdom of the Crystal Skull since Lucas's name was on it, it automatically makes it a work of art.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

Exactly how many times do you need to reply with "Nah ah! It's the prequels that suck! Di$ney corporate dumpster fire Wars is awesome!"? We get it

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Then do not try and change the narrative. You are in the minority in thinking the prequels were better than tfa. Critics as well as the mass majority disagree with you. I put more stock in critics and the mass majority than you. Again a movie doesn't need to get through you in order for others to consider it good. Get that through your skull. It's time to grow up. I can't stand Pulp Fiction guess what it's considered a classic by the majority. I don't have to try and seek desperate validation. I know I'm in the minority and quite frankly don't care. Also I think your taste is trash quite honestly. I don't consider films exempt from criticism just because the creators name is on it like you do.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

Your dependance on hiding behind what you believe to be the "popular" opinion reflects an inability to defend garbage like TFA on your own and by its own merrits. Understandably difficult task when dealing such crap.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

It's not what I believe it is fact my friend. What's going on is again you are insecure and cant accept the truth. You need validation so badly you will deny facts. See I have no problem saying pulp fiction is considered a great film by the masses I just dislike it. You don't have the maturity to do that. You constantly speak and say oh I know tons who dislike it.

Well provide data for this. I provided you with data you are basically telling me to take your word for it. Why should I believe you? I'm giving you the chance to prove me wrong with facts. You can't do it.

I can easily defend tfa. Since you claim it to be recycled I assume you will.hold the OT to that standard as well. A new hope is just a ripoff of hidden fortress.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

I'm not trying to convince you not to like bad movies like TFA. That's fine. That being said you are way too fixated on an arguing tactic that is barely a step above fan boys who love to tout box office numbers as a measuring barometer of a film's quality & somehow a validation of their opinions.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Box office is how much money a movie made. The critical reception as well as reception by fans is indicated by the data on Rotten tomatoes metacritic and imdb. RT, and MC for critics, imdb for the mass majority of people. I know it sucks being in the minority don't worry it's ok life will go on. Also your fixated? Don't you mean you're fixated? Is decent grammar too much to ask?

A film doesn't need your stamp of approval in order for the mass majority to consider it a great film. I hate to break it to you. It's time to grow up, not everyone agrees with your views.

Tfa being bad is your subjective opinion. I disagree and so does the mass majority. The prequels I consider to be total trash.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

*Sigh* "All I have to do is repeatedly claim that rotten tomatoes scores are somehow law enough times for it to eventually sound credible and not a cop out".

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Who should I put more stock in critics or you?

Second the fact that you claimed those prequels to be good destroyed your credibility for me. I get even liking the ot and standing by it even though I feel those are overrated. However yeah the prequels are utter trash and so is your taste in films.

Tfa I used to just think was good not great but solid. Now though since I discovered it ruined these stupid star wars fans childhood it has become one of my top ten films of all time. Hearing it destroying star wars memories make me love it so much.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

"Nah Ah! Prequels suck. TFA is an all time classic I tell you cuz Rotten Tomatoes says so!"

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Critics and the mass majority hold more credibility than you. Period!

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

"How people caught up in the hype felt in 2015 is how people will feel forever because i believe that's how real life works"

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

Which is they loved it. Phantom.menace was hyped as well guess what it's considered bad. It has terrible RT and MC scores as well as a low score on imdb. Bad example you lose.

Tell me isn't a new hope trash because it ripped off hidden fortress? Talk about recycled trash.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

"Poorly copying and pasting the plot from a previous film in the very same film series & masking it as a sequel is the same as taking inspiration from various separate
sources"

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 5 years ago

A storm trooper didn't go rogue in a new hope. Also copying is copying. Don't tout a new hope as anything more than a soulless cash grab that ripped off hidden fortress.

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[–] Threadkiller (2950) 5 years ago

Honestly I just see TLJ as a bad movie that had little choice because of the putrid, abomination of a "story" it inherited. At least TLJ has a much better excuse for why it sucks.

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[–] johnmiller (3327) 5 years ago

"Force Awakens" was instantly forgettable. I just left the theater thinking: "Eh. Who cares?"

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