MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015) Discussion > Rey is too POSH to be a scavenger

Rey is too POSH to be a scavenger

posted 5 years ago by [deleted]
27 replies | jump to latest

I've never liked Rey in this trilogy, and that's not because she's a female (I love female leads in movies) or a Mary Sue (even though she is). I think the reason I don't like her is that she looks too attractive and too well-groomed to be a scavenger on a desert planet. I mean, she is highly attractive and immaculately clean with an upper-class British accent which is demeaning to those she doesn't like, and yet she is scurrying around dirty, vast hulks and handling dirty, oily ship parts all the time! She should have scars from injuries or even just bruises or even just dirt patches as a result! Her costume also doesn't suit her livelihood, and it reminds me almost of a Jedi costume from the start.

Compare her with Jyn Erso from Rogue One. Now I like HER a lot, lot more, because she actually LOOKS the part, and doesn't look posh or upper-class at all, but almost plain, but still attractive. Her clothing is utilitarian, and she gets dirty a lot of the time and changes clothes for disguises and so forth. Her speech is nicer and not condescending, and her accent is not indicative of class or privilege. A much more relatable and humble person, to be honest.

These are two notable Disney Star Wars heroines and role models who both happen to be British, and yet they couldn't be further apart.

But I like Jyn Erso a LOT more than Rey.

[–] Threadkiller (2952) 5 years ago

What I said on the other board. It all leads back to her being a textbook Mary Sue.

[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 5 years ago

Of course she's a Mary Sue, giving her character flaws that she has to overcome or giving the character depth would take too much creative effort.

I've thought long and hard and I think one of the best written female characters was Tracey Di Vicenzo in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, she was not perfect, she was a psychologically damaged individual but that made her interesting and watching her overcome those obstacles is what made the audience invested in her and that made it all the more heartbreaking when she eventually died from a bullet intended for Bond.

That and she's played by the great Diana Rigg who is a far better actress than Daisy Ridley.

[–] sut6432 (2830) 5 years ago

Remember now what the SJW's of the world have told us...if you don't like everything about Rey you are a bigoted sexist who is afraid of women. Lol.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Okay, Incel and MRA guy. Is it okay if I call you an Incel or MRA? You people are fond of throwing labels around, so turnabout is fair play, right?

[–] sut6432 (2830) 5 years ago

You can't call me whatever you'd like. We were friends on the other board. Haha. Have a great day.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

There has to be a 90 percent chance that every guy who ever uses the term "Mary Sue" is an Incel. Lol

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

She is not a Mary Sue. I'm sick and tired of people using that phrase. It's not what that idiot, Max Landis, said it was. A "Mary Sue" is a character that's a wish fulfillment of the writer who made her up. For example, if you created a character that was clearly based on an idealized version of yourself, that character would be a Mary Sue:

https://filmsdeconstructed.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/reclaiming-the-term-mary-sue-from-mra-troll-max-landis/

It doesn't surprise me that a completely untalented hack who wouldn't know what writing was if it bit him on the ass wouldn't know what a Mary Sue was.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I agree. It's a pretty thinly veiled attack on these movies that says more about the person complaining.
I grew up watching the original trilogy and clearly Princess Leah was primarily there to be rescued.
Her princess status is basically used to keep her in a dress and have limited actions throughout the movie until she's taken prisoner. Women don't fly space ships in the old trilogy either (except for one scene where Lea flies the Falcon in the Empire Strikes Back...and that's after Han has been frozen so I guess without the big strong guy there and Lando still not being a trusted member of the crew they had to let the woman drive).
Given the history of sexism in Star Wars, I cut Disney a lot of slack on this.
Rey is a pretty kick ass character and all the little girls who get to see this tough young woman out there flying space ships and fighting with a light saber are getting something that their mom's didn't get.
Anyway, was Luke or Anakin scrutinized for suddenly being able to use the force in their movies? Luke was barely taught how to hold a light saber and he blew up the Death Star. Anakin was an even younger kid and he accidentally blows up that thing in the Phantom Menace.
Rey actually lived a tough life ALL BY HERSELF and had to learn to use that staff to defend herself against any creep that came across her in that wrecked AT-At. Luke and Anakin are spoiled and privileged compared to her.

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8289) 5 years ago

Wut?

I've never in my life heard that definition of Mary Sue.

Even if you just run "What is a Mary Sue" through Google it gives you the following definition:

"(originally in fan fiction) a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses."

That is, and always has been, the accepted definition of the term.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Why is the fact that you've never heard this a day in your life supposed to mean anything? It's a a known trope in the writing community and has been for ages, so if you've been a part of that community how would you have come across it?

Even if you just run "What is a Mary Sue" through Google it gives you the following definition

If you Google "anti-vaxx", you will find tons of websites legitimizing the lie that vaccinations cause autism.

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8289) 5 years ago

I've studied screenwriting, and filmmaking broadly, both inside and outside of the university setting, and never have I heard any definition of a Mary Sue than the one I provided. Nor have I ever heard anyone use the term in any other way.

I think you're putting too much faith in the blog writer you linked to. Try corroborating your source and see what others have to say and who defines the term in what way.

With that said, I imagine that most people's wish fulfillment would result in a character who is mysteriously good at everything they do so I'm not sure there's even that much difference between the definition you provided and the accepted definition.

[–] Threadkiller (2952) 5 years ago

As a quintessential Mary Sue she's "too" a lot of things to be a supposedly lowly scavenger. It makes no sense. With all of her implausible skills and abilities she's very likely the most skilled and talented person on her backwater planet, let alone the nearby scrapheap of a town. It just makes absolutely no sense for someone who's an expert mechanic,engineer, an ace pilot, multilingual to the point where she even understands droid & Wookie, is a skilled staff fighter, able to subdue multiple goons at a time yet is wasting her time scraping by through scavenging instead of putting her other treasure trove of highly specialized skills to work for her. She would be in high demand by anyone who could afford her services.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Rey was abandoned and learned those skills by accessing technology that littered the landscape on Jakku. She had to defend herself against any creep that came along in the desert so she had to learn to fight with her staff or die.
Anyone kid who ever grew up and showed any talent knows you aren't instantly appreciated for what you can do in some settings. She's living on a planet with an economy that seems to be feudal. People without property have to do manual labor. The First Order is running the rest of the galaxy. So is she supposed to post a resume on Careerbuilder?
Your arguments are lame. I think you just don't like movies with strong female leads.

[–] Threadkiller (2952) 5 years ago

For years I've seen these stock excuses given to try to explain away her highly implausible skill set. Scavengers exist in real life and they don't become mechanical & engineering geniuses, with a side of ace stunt piloting, multilingual including languages she has absolutely no practical use for a part from the plot which I guess she read ahead of time so she could understand Chewie, and all the rest. Your closing comment looks like a parody of TFA/Rey defenders because that's about the most comically stereotypical defense there is of this terrible movie. For the record this movie would still be terrible even if she wasn't a prototypical Mary Sue which is hardly the biggest issue with this movie.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

You have a problem with a girl leading a Star Wars movie and holding a light saber when you want a proud boy.
That's pathetic.
It must really bug you to see a movie where the girl is a hero for you to blather on about how a "scavenger" in a sci-fi movie could never develop the skill to fly a spaceship or fix things. Luke was a kid on a farm and we never see this spaceship that he learned to fly in or how he targeted "womp rats." Yeah, he's stuck on that "moisture farm" farming that moisture...that's logical. But he has a spaceship that he never uses to leave the planet and kills womp rats with it. Now THAT's a relateable character for someone like you, isn't it?

[–] Threadkiller (2952) 5 years ago

Your post reads so much like a parody I'm still not sure if you're being serious or not. 🤔 While not a great movie (still infinitely better than TFA) I liked Jynn from Rogue One well enough who was a much better written character. Rey is awful due to being a poorly written character, not because she has a vagina. The only ones who seem to care about that are people like you.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

Rey is awful due to being a poorly written character...

Poorly written by male screenwriters, which everyone seems to forget. Somehow criticizing the lazy and hackish work of two dudes makes you a misogynist.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I think it's interesting that you think Jyn Erso is such a great character when she is a more passive character than Rey. And since her story is a one off, it's less threatening to guys who (until now) had a safe space in the Star Wars film series. Yes, it was so easy to buy into this amazing fantasy of space wizards and robots when 90 percent of the cast were white guys. Then Disney came along and ruined it for you.
Consider this: All of these movies are basically about people on impoverished planets (even Rogue One) living under the boot of a fascist space empire...and yet when a female character gets her own trilogy, the mechanics and economics of this universe suddenly come under scrutiny. Yes, not only does this movie about a girl holding a light saber irk you, but it irks you that she gets THREE WHOLE MOVIES (and possibly more).
Go ahead. pretend to be amused by this. But whatever safe fan board on the internet where the "mary sue" argument goes unchallenged is not as big as you want it to be. Again, your criticisms are transparent and lame.

[–] sokar (2098) 5 years ago

How come no matter how good someone argues a point it always swings back to the same old statement.

Rey is a terrible character, terribly written, awfully acted, Mary Sue at it's finest. These points are not because she is a woman no matter how poeple like you and the media want to push it, it is because she is a crap character. That is all there is to it, she is boring, one dimensional, perfect at everything she does, literally can do anything. That is why she is disliked.

It has absolutelly nothing to do with the fact she is a woman, we will just forget about Princess Leia shall we, same fans, strange how they don't attack that character isn't it, really strange that, same fans though.

Saying that fans don't like Rey becuase she is a woman is a lazy argument and just doesn't stand up.

I dislike Rey but i like Princess Leia. I dislike Qi'ra but i thought Jyn Erso was pretty good. So by your standards i am sexist and afraid of woman for disliking 2 female characters but how can that be when i also like 2 female characters, see how your lazy one dimensional argument doesn't stand up.

[–] Threadkiller (2952) 5 years ago

I seriously can't tell if Smith is being serious or not. I mean seriously "Uhh.. you liked Jynn huh? Umm well you only liked her because she (or any other female characters you may mention) wasn't as threatening to you because she only starred in one movie." LOL! The reasoning is childish to the point where it completely reads like someone who is trying to make fun of Rey/TFA defenders.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

She is not a Mary Sue. You are misusing the term: https://filmsdeconstructed.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/reclaiming-the-term-mary-sue-from-mra-troll-max-landis/

[–] Threadkiller (2952) 5 years ago

Rey is a Mary Sue if there ever was one & trying to filibuster the issue by arguing around in circles about the semantics of the term isn't going to change that. You can still take away the term and she's still a bland, poorly written, OP protagonist. .

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Just as you don't know what a Mary Sue is, you don't know what the word, filibuster, means either. That's the problem with your generation. You "pick up" terms that exist in a very specific context and means something very specific, ascribe a dumbed down meaning to them, and then casually throw them around in an attempt to sound intellectual. But you see, it's not intellectual to use big words. It's intellectual to use big words and use them in the proper context.

For example, "filibustering" only exists in a political/government context. It means to talk a bill or some other piece of legislation to death, in order to frustrate your opponents into not passing it. It does not mean what you think it means, and makes absolutely no sense in the context that you used it here. I can't "filibuster" any issue because we're not politicians or government officials trying to pass a bill. We're just people talking on a public forum.

From Merriam-Webster:

2 [ 2filibuster ]
a : the use of extreme dilatory (see DILATORY sense 1) tactics (as by making long speeches) in an attempt to delay or prevent action especially in a legislative assembly

From Wikipedia:

A filibuster is a political procedure where one or more members of parliament or congress debate over a proposed piece of legislation so as to delay or entirely prevent a decision being made on the proposal. It is sometimes referred to as "talking a bill to death" or "talking out a bill"[1] and is characterized as a form of obstruction in a legislature or other decision-making body.

[–] Threadkiller (2952) 5 years ago

None of that even remotely absolves Rey of being a poorly written character. It's very commonplace when trying to defend a weak argument to deflect and change the subject such as pretending(at least i hope) to be unable to distinguish between literal & informal definitions which is neither my problem or concern.

[–] Burk48917 (10966) 5 years ago

Force shower. Force laundry.

[–] Threadkiller (2952) 5 years ago

Don't forget Force manicure & Force dental care.

[–] tom8 (2874) 5 years ago

always hated the British accents in the SW movies......... they all should just have a neutral american accent

i am euro btw