Questions for atheists

I only have my phone so won't go into too much detail.

1. The evidence I've observed does not point to a theistic position being credible. I'm open to the idea if substantial evidence can be presented.

2. Religion is one of the most prominent forces in the world and can have negative effects. Although personally, this huge amount of energy you mention constitutes a few posts on the internet once in a while.

3. It's fine to believe in both, it's just that in an age when we've been able to explain so much through purely natural processes a deity just doesn't seem so necessary.

4. A man named Jesus may have lived, and may have taught good lessons, he might have even been the son of God, neither I or any atheist can know for sure just like you can't know for sure any number of other religions aren't actually the correct one. The evidence just doesn't support it.

5. I wouldn't personally use such phrases, but whether in the sky or another dimension both are extraordinary claims that require amazing evidence that I've never seen.

It's great that you ask these questions and try to find out about us. I 've experienced some Christians quite content to judge US all on what they THINK we all say and act like.

1. Not all Atheists take the Gnostic position (which is 100% certainty).

2. Well religion has a great effect on politics, so in order to get noticed, we have to speak up. You are free to believe whatever you want, but when your beliefs start effecting me and others directly, that cannot be allowed. Some also view the belief in god(s) as archaic and something that holds society back as a whole.

3. You are confusing Abiogensis with The Theory of Evolution. Also what kind of doublethink are you going through to call evolution true, but unproven, also the theory of evolution is proven, that is why it is a theory. Your last statement is just an appeal to authority fallacy. Also, as I am sure you know, there are fundamentalist religious people who take their religious text as literal, so I ask you, how should we read the bible; should we read it as entirely literal or entirely metaphorical?

4. There is no evidence suggesting a man named Jesus existed, now maybe a teacher similar to Jesus existed, but their is nothing in the record suggesting such a thing. Also it should be interesting to note that the books were written long after Jesus supposedly died and they don't tie together, there are very clear and apparent differences in the books. I would like to ask you, how does any religion get started, also your source is biased towards your answer, so I suggest finding a source that is not as biased. Well you do know that Plato and Aristotle wrote themselves and we still have their work surviving today, not to mention busts.

5. I think there they are talking about Jesus, but I think that is more of a troll, normally though I hear the word zombie instead of dead guy. Magic as in supernatural powers and when people originally referred to heaven, they said it was in the clouds.


HI-F___ING-YA
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Would you please share the evidence of God's non-existence with me. If there is no God and no heaven then what do you believe happens when we die? Thanks for your reply.

Look up in the sky....

Though I do not usually like to reply to these sorts of posts because they degrade into trolling sessions, and that it is difficult for me to discern is the OP’s are legitimate in their inquiry.

I will begin by addressing a couple of points in your opening:
The buffet of theistic beliefs is almost comically diverse. For example, you believe in a universal creator, but to alleviate yourself the discomfort of any particular creed or dogma, you have created your own personal faith with all the trimming and none of the things you would personally find displeasing. Like a buffet; you ‘choose your own religion’, picking the ‘food’ you like. Oh look; some afterlife, and a fresh serving of creator-god, I don’t want to ‘die’ or ‘be alone’, so I’ll take never ceasing to exist and a slice of deity who cares about me… Let’s eat.

1) The idea that an atheist has chosen to close his or her mind is short-sided. Many, if not most, of us have opened our minds enough to accept the idea that a god or god may not or likely do not exist. I for one was a very devout Christian. For years I denied looking onto the concept of a godless universe beyond an apologetic stance to defend my theistic belief set. So I had accepted and wholeheartedly believed in existence after death. It was research, logic, reason and reading the holy books of many faiths (finally really researching my bible) that really made me think. Once I found that there need not be a god or gods, I could look into the evidence for a god or gods. I found that evidence and the arguments presented (including the ones I had often preached upon) wanting on many levels.

2) We put so much energy into this for a few reasons. First it is interesting, the concept as while is fascinating. Secondly, it impacts us, everyone; the entire world. Thirdly, it matters; truth and reality is very important. We need to know the most true things as possible and reject the most false thing as possible to progress as a species. Religion and mysticism can be extremely harmful. I do not care if faith provides some solace to a billion people; if one person is oppressed or harmed because of faith in an unsupportable mystical being; I have a problem with the creed as a whole. Only in faith (no matter how many may choose to live a ‘kindly’ form) do we find such irrational though processes. I want to see an end to mysticism, this is not the Stone Age, and we need science and reason, not magic. Humanity has come too far and we have outgrown this sort of childish logic.

3) The thing with evolution, is that is takes away the inherent need for a god to exist for us to have progressed on this Earth. It also contradicts the ‘natural histories’ presented in all religious texts. That said, you are correct, the fact of evolution does not mean that there cannot be a god or gods. And no real self-respecting rational atheist would make that claim. It is not logical. Most, if not all, atheists are reasonably and admittedly ‘agnostic’. We do not accept or believe in a god or gods; however we do not claim to ‘know’ that god or gods do not exist. We simply see no requirement for them; and in light of that we also see no reasonable proof for any gods.

4) The question on the existence of the historical Jesus is not a simple topic. I will say some things here to address your question, but I really think you should look into this more openly. For me, the jury is not ‘in’ per se, but I have recently been more willing to accept the arguments for the non-existence of a historical Jesus. Mostly because I do not fear divine reprisal, nor do I find it sacrilege to question his existence… again not closed, but an open mind. The truth is that many atheists do not think that Jesus did not exist. This is not some ‘tenant of atheism’. But the authorship and veracity of the gospels highly questionable. This is not something historians take lightly. The books of the Bible are not very reliable the more history is explored. It is unfortunate that the only accounts for the person, Jesus, are in the Bible. As for Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, King George III and the like, there are some differences. I will not get into it here (too long), but to be honest, some of those you mentioned are thought to not have existed (as thought) either. So there really is not ‘double standard’.

5) First, I think most understand that Jesus was dead, and was then alive, so “talking dead guy’ may in part be said in jest. Yet some may not understand the Christian concept. Regardless it matters not, the stretch in logic and reason required to accept the ascension to another plane of existence is a profound one. Also, the many interpretations on the qualities of God (in this case Yahweh, specifically) are of little consequence. But you speak as though there is consensus; to which I can assure you there is not. In fact the utter lack of consensus on such central topics within Christianity is paramount. As for ‘magic’; you’re splitting hairs. Literally this is “You say potato, I say potato” (which doesn't really translate well in textual form; sort of my point). Magic is not a specifically defined thing, but more so a descriptor. Power, magic, ability… whatever. The idea here is that the claim is made that this entity is able to perform acts in which the understood natural laws are either bent, broken, or utilised in some immeasurable manner; and therefore we find these claims unsupported and hard to accept.

I hope that this makes some sense to you, it is late and I may not have been as eloquent as I usually am. And I was struggling to keep this ‘short’ yet detailed enough to be useful.

Cheers,

~UT


I am the equal and opposite reaction!

1. Why are you an atheist? I am curious why you would close your mind to the possibility of something more then just us and that there is any existence after death.

You're suffering from a faulty premise put forth by the religious and their media machines, like FOX news. Our minds are open to all possibilities, but the truth is, there is no evidence for such a belief. If it comes, we'll evaluate it. Until such time, there is no evidence for a god or any kind.

2. Why do some atheists put so much energy into something they don't believe in? By this I mean I know and have met some atheists that have their beliefs and don't care about my beliefs and are happy to do their thing and let me do my thing belief wise. Then there are atheists I have met that feel that it is their life mission to bash God and bash peoples belief in God and I just don't understand why you would put so much energy into something you don't believe in. I'm not talking about defending your beliefs as an atheist. I am talking about atheists that go out of there why to bash God or someone's belief in God. When no one is putting down their beliefs.

Point out that the Bible shows that god is a willfully nasty, genocidal, vainglorious a-hole is not "bashing" god. It's telling the truth. Read your bible. You'll see. It's all there. We also find many of the things the bible espouses for you to believe are harmful to society (give no thought to the morrow, if we follow this, then what is our impetus to better the world?). Also, so-called 'Christians' who have NO IDEA what the bible contains but THINK they do (i.e. my god is real because my god hates the same people I do... gays, etc.) are doing their level best, and have done so throughout the ages, to force their religion on us, to take our tax dollars to support their beliefs, etc. This is a clear violation of the separation of church and state and should be stopped. Any teen sitting in his parent's basement considering slitting his wrists because he loves someone of the same sex and millions of christians are vocally telling them that they are sinful and going to hell and "damaged", own a little bit of that kid's suicidal thoughts. They are all partially responsible, as is their stupid bible. They should be put down because they're stupid and harmful. That being said, we don't care what you believe so long as you 1) Do NOT take any tax dollars to support it and 2) Do NOT try and force it on others through the threat of violence of indoctrination. Unfortunately, that's ALL the religious want to do.

3. I have herd a lot of atheists say that they don't believe in a universal creator or God because they believe in evolution. My question here is why can't you believe in a universal creator and evolution. I believe in both. How can I do that you ask well let me explain. We now that evolution is true because things change and evolve. What we have not been able to prove is the theory of evolution as to how everything was created. So with the theory of evolution and the theory of creation both being unproven I don't see any reason why we can't look for proof of both. I mean if there is a universal creator who's to say that they didn't create everything by evolution. I mean the father of the big bang theory was Georges Lemaître a catholic priest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre He discovered it before Edward Hubble. If some of our greatest scientists have been catholic or catholic priests and they believe in a universal creator why don't you? http://www.realclearscience.com/lists/priests_who_were_scientists/scie nce_and_religion.html

Some of these scientists, like Newton, were a product of their age. It was unthinkable to NOT believe in god. The theory of evolution and a god don't fit because there is only evidence for one. If you want to believe that a god guided evolution, go ahead and do that, but there is no proof for it. Not a shred of evidence.

4. Why don't atheists believe that a man named Jesus lived? I understand why an atheist would not believe that Jesus was the son of God but I am curious to know why many of you say that Jesus is a myth or never lived. First I would like to start with the bible. I know the bible is not 100% fact. What I am getting at is that the bible was all written as separate books before is was all put together as one book so why would four different people. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John write four separate books about their lives with Jesus if he never lived. And why would the apostles go out and spread the message of Jesus and start a church based on his teachings if he never lived. All of this can be found in the book of Acts another book written separately by Paul and other apostles. Also Jesus has been written about outside of the bible. http://carm.org/non-biblical-accounts-new-testament-events-andor-peopl e Why is it that people have no problem believing that historical figures like Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, King George III, lived but when it comes to Jesus, suddenly a different standard is offered. Even though the historical evidence for Plato and Aristotle is in written form and people have no problem with that when it comes to the same standard for Jesus, many people won’t accept it. Why the double standard?

The bible isn't 100 percent fact? Talk about your understatements. You do know that the four books of the bible you talk about do tend to contradict one another, right? You do know that they have been proven to have been written decades after the supposed events occurred, right? You do know that no one really knows who the authors of those books were, right?

It doesn't matter if we believe Aristotle existed because no one is claiming him to be divine. It doesn't matter. Now, if someone did claim Aristotle was the son of god, then you'd have to prove he existed. That's why there is a different standard for him. As Hitchens said, if you are the one making the grandiose claims, then you better have SPECTACULAR evidence for it. Supposedly, Jesus rose from the dead and with him, so did plenty of others from the tombs that day and had joyous reunions with their loved ones. Why, in all of recorded history, is there not one letter saying "Damn, Uncle Benny came back from the dead and had lunch with us today! It was awesome!" Because it didn't happen.

At best, Jesus may have been a composite of many other people. There was a messiah fever at the time of his supposed existence. Lots of people claimed to be the messiah. But there isn't even evidence for that.

5. Lastly I would like to address some terms I have heard atheists use that make no sense to me so please explain. 1. "They believe in a talking dead guy" God is a spiritual being who has never lived a physical life so therefore he has never died. And if they mean Jesus Yes, we do believe in a ‘guy’ that died. No, in the 3 days he was dead, his body did not produce any speech however after he rose from the dead, he spoke. So who is the talking dead guy that we believe in? 2. "Magical sky daddy" those of us who believe in a universal creator don't believe God has any magical powers or that God lives in the sky. We believe that the spiritual plane that God exists in is in a whole other dimension.

How do you know his body produced no speech? Were you there? What dimension does god live in? Where can I find it? How do you know it exists? How do we pass from our dimension to that one? If it is just another dimension, is it really an afterlife? Is hell a different dimension?

1. I have never seen, heard or felt evidence to the contrary. It feels like human arrogance to believe there must be more to our existences when in all honesty there isn't much difference between us and dogs.

2. I have no idea, you'd have to ask them.

3. You could also believe aliens created everything, or maybe we created ourselves with a time machine? I don't think these are any more unlikely than a single "being", God, creating everything around us.

4. I do believe that Jesus was a real man. But you are wrong with the origin of the gospels, these were written many years after the death of Jesus by people that heard the stories from Mark, Luke, Matthew and John.

5- I've never used any of the terms but I find it interesting that you don't believe God has any magical powers. Isn't he described as all powerful? Isn't he capable of all creation? Wouldn't that be magical?

1. Why are you an atheist? I am curious why you would close your mind to the possibility of something more then just us and that there is any existence after death.

Actually, I don't believe in God because I am open-minded. I was raised in a religious household, but also a household that encouraged critical thinking and education. I came to the conclusion that there was no God because I did not close my mind to the possibility that there wasn't such a thing. Perhaps you could turn that question on yourself. Why have you closed your mind to the possibility that there is no God? And nothing happens after death? If you are open to that possibility, then perhaps you have a little something in common with those of us who are more agnostic than atheist.
To answer a question you asked later in the thread, I think this is it. This is the life we get, and there is nothing afterwards. This does not bother me, nor scare me. But I've had the good fortune to live a happy life - I imagine this is much more difficult to accept if your life is not happy, or you've lost someone you truly loved too soon.

2. Why do some atheists put so much energy into something they don't believe in?
Probably for the same reason some Christians do the same. The beliefs of others can affect our lives in negative ways, particularly if you live in a very religious country. Imagine living underneath a religious despot, for instance, as some people do. Imagine not believing that that dictator believes. What would your life be like? The US is a less dramatic version of that, but religion can still seriously hurt people. An atheist gay person, for instance, would be justified in feeling that their rights have been trampled on in many ways, for many years, due to the religious beliefs of others.

3. I think others have covered your evolution ideas better than I could. Of course you can believe in both, if you like. Many religions seem to feel that belief in God and evolution are incompatible. Many people I admire are religious. I can admire their accomplishments and other things about them and not believe that God had anything to do with what they have done with their lives. A scientist believing in evolution and God at the same time does not automatically represent science as a whole.

4. Why don't atheists believe that a man named Jesus lived? I believe that there is a possibility that a man like Jesus or even Jesus himself was a real person. If so, he was a fascinating figure who espoused many valuable and beautiful ideas about how we should live our lives. What is more likely is that he is an amalgam of people, ideas and beliefs created by religious philosophers who wrote what we now call the Bible.

5. These are sarcastic terms created by people for the reasons outlined in question 2.

The atheist's argument usually asks for some evidence of intelligent design. By this logic they don't believe love exists. Or eternity. I'm not referring to the Christian principles of eternity or God's love.

Ask them if they believe in love. I bet they say yes.

How about eternity? Yep.

There is no more physical proof of those concepts than there is of God, but we all know they exist, or do they?

If in doubt, what's the gamble to believe or not? Life is but a sliver between the eternity before and after. I'm not willing to risk it.

Try Blaise Pascal. His "proof" of God from a logician's purview will satisfy.