Wow!


There sure seems to be some strong opinions here, and near as I can tell, nobody has even seen the movie yet. Some say that the movie claims the earth to be the center of the universe. In my school days, we were taught that Galileo held to the theory that not only did the earth revolve around the sun, he also held that the sun was the center of the universe. Many modern scientists dispute that theory. I don't know if the earth is the center of the universe or not. I do know that the truth cannot be in conflict with itself. I am looking forward to viewing the movie.

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When there are strong opinions on anything involving science, it means someone is being motivated by ideology, not by science. I also had a WTF moment when I first heard about geocentrism in the 21st century, but having a physics background, I investigated it further as any honest person should do, and it's definitely not what most people think it is. That you're looking forward to viewing the movie instead of having a knee-jerk reaction based on your school days is definitely a point for you. I wish there were more people like that.

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True, it isn't saying "geocentrism" is wrong, it is basically playing around with data from cosmic background radiation. After some investigation (google) the makers of this movie are most certainly religiously motivated. If this film had anything "interesting" to impart from a scientific stand point, then we would have undoubtedly already heard about it. This is more christian scientists "over analysing" data. The plain and simple truth is, we have no idea where or if the universe indeed has a "centre". There is no evidence available as of yet to confirm the earths placement within the universe.

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You know... the less you comment about the movie now, the less stupid you will look after it's released.

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I could comment all day long about this film and ill still be stupid, but not to the extent of the films makers! Its obvious religious make believe, people of faith trying to understand how to fit "Gods" and science into one frame, and as always it ends up being very skewed. The maker is an anti-semite moron, Ive had dealings with Sungenis before, he is a true flip. When this film is released, no one will see it, no one will ever remember it, and it will be forgotten almost as fast as it was released. Sorry, but thats the truth, and I suspect you know it.

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You've had dealings with Sungenis? Is that you, Takis?

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[deleted]

Glad I could help, but your eyes were the last ones I was attempting to open, I don't think theres much muscle behind them...
Have you ever actually looked at or studied the universe through a telescope? Studied Astronomy? You know, that "thing" that helps men build rockets that can land on comets?
Have you actually studied chemistry and physics???
These are things that are real. After looking at the data, the Pope even admitted the Big Bang was real...
I have no idea what most of that crap you spewed out is, although I can bet all of it is totally unscientific, and I wouldn't even bother wasting my life googling it. Use Wikipedia, it saves time. The makers of this garbage are uneducated morons. They know nothing of science and they disrespect people who work hard trying to help humanity, people that selflessly save lives by curing polio, or TB or malaria etc, etc e t c!
These people use science to help propel humanity, this movie simply stalls it!


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Use Wikipedia, it saves time.


I guess that's all we need to know about you.

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lol, yeah and from that comment I guess thats all I need to know about you!

Wiki has no agenda, unlike the garbage you peddle!
Going by the lack of activity on this board, and the fact that only a handful of morons have actually watched this trash, you stand in the minority, you obviously have no understanding of the beauty of science, nor do you care about truth, only your opinion, which is wrong, like all f#$kin opinions.

Dont worry, a good dose of "dogma" next Sunday should cure all your fears, and your ego.

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you stand in the minority


And

you obviously have no understanding of the beauty of science


Q.E.D.

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This is a new low even for this board

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The producers of the film are known to regard geocentrism as an article of Faith. They believe that scientists conspire to conceal it in order to promote atheism.

The Catholic Church disagrees with them, but they think the recent popes are modernists who tolerate heresy.

And there is all the Jew-paranoia. And Bob Sungenis, got his "PhD" from an unaccredited diploma mill.

See
geocentrismdebunked.org

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Do you have any argument other than the ad hominem above?

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Those points would only be considered ad hominem if they were unrelated, and also attacks.

Wigga Please

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It can't be an ad hominem if it's unrelated. Please, learn what an argumentum ad hominem is. A hint, it has nothing to do with the popular usage on the internet, as a synonym of insult.

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"Do you have any argument other than the ad hominem above?"

Yes, as stated elsewhere:

I'm afraid there is, contrary to Sungenis' claims, no physics supporting geocentrism.
Even his idiotic "center of mass argument" is a demonstrable load of crap. The universe just doesn't act like it has any center of mass.
As Alex MacAndrew stated:
"Let us ignore, just for the moment, the fact that the universe is unlikely to be a sphere or any other shape with a spatial boundary, and grant for the sake of argument, over the next few paragraphs, the idea that the universe is spatially finite, flat, Euclidean and spherical with a spatial boundary (i.e., a ball) and therefore in possession of a definable and unique centre of mass.
Let’s also note that Sungenis is attempting a classical (Newtonian) analysis. Then “those stars” will revolve around the Earth only if they are gravitationally bound and the universe as a whole has non-zero angular momentum. Moreover they should revolve in a way that is predictable by the laws of celestial mechanics.
What do we observe?
In the first place, we see that the universe as a whole is not gravitationally bound (the expansion of the universe is accelerating and parts of the universe are moving apart at greater than escape velocity which means they are not gravitationally bound); furthermore we do not measure a non-zero angular momentum for the universe (i.e. it does not measurably rotate) 16; and finally the motion of the galaxies and galaxy clusters looks nothing like they would look if the universe were a gravitationally bound set of free falling bodies revolving around a centre of mass, in which the angular velocity of galaxies should decrease as a function of distance from the centre of mass."

So, it just doesn't even act like it has a center of mass in the first place. But it gets better. Even if it did, and even if the Earth at any point occupied it, it is physically impossible for the Earth to remain at rest at that spot.
Sungenis confuses the center of mass with a point of zero gravity. However, since the universe beyond Earth is nowhere near symmetrical (we have most of the mass of the solar system parked next door to us, in the form of the sun), this isn't the case. Even if it was symmetrical, that still wouldn't matter.
To quote MacAndrew again:
"Sungenis is conflating the centre of mass with a point where the gravitational field is zero. A body at the centre of mass is still subject to the gravitational fields of other bodies – and in general, contrary to Sungenis’s claim, the gravitational field is not zero at the centre of mass....
And the Earth is not near to being in a gravitationally symmetric situation – it is not, even in Sungenis’s “ball universe” model, positioned in the centre of a ball of uniform density and gravitational attraction, because it is relatively close to a massive body (the Sun) with the next equivalently massive body, Proxima Centauri, ~270,000 times further away – and, remember, gravitational field goes as the inverse square of the distance. The Earth is primarily subject to the relatively enormous gravitational field of the Sun; secondarily to the gravitational field of other solar bodies which are about 1,000 (for the moon) – ~30,000 (for Venus and Jupiter) times less than the Sun; and then to the gravity of the entire Milky Way galaxy of a trillion stars which, in spite of its immense mass and because of its vast distance from the Earth, is 31 million times less than that of the Sun....
All of these bodies cause some acceleration of the Earth – in the case of the Sun, its gravity results in the acceleration of the Earth which keeps the Earth in orbit around it; the moon’s gravity causes an acceleration of the Earth that results in a monthly perturbation or wobble on the Earth’s annual orbit (the gravity of the other planets cause further perturbations). The acceleration due to the gravitational field of the Milky Way explains the orbit of the Earth, Sun and other planets of the solar system round the galaxy at a radius of 25,900 light years) and so on. The gravitational fields (and Earth’s resulting accelerations) of the rest of the galaxy are very small compared to the Sun’s field, but are sufficient to explain the orbit of the solar system around the galaxy because of the very large period of the solar system’s galactic motion....
Together with the Sun’s field, the accelerations caused by these bodies, all in constant motion, result in time - changing velocities so that the Earth cannot be stably at rest in an inertial frame. A finite acceleration, which the earth must have because it is in a non-zero gravitational field, is the same as a time-varying velocity – that’s the definition of acceleration – and if a velocity is time-varying it cannot be zero indefinitely, even if it is zero for a moment. Even if at one instant in time the Earth just happens to coincide with the centre of mass, it cannot remain so.

So. Whoops. Not only does the universe not act like it has Sungenis' magical center of mass - but the Earth couldn't remain occupy it indefinitely, even if it did.
And don't get me started on Sungeni's ridiculous "oscilliation" idea - needless to say he utterly fails at simple geometry. He states that the universe oscillates in a 74 million mile arc, but fails to realise that if that were the case, everything that lies on a plane with the Sun and further away from Earth than it from our perspective, would have to travel further than 74 million miles, in order to remain on the same plane as the sun.
The greatest failing though, is that it means absolutely nothing, geometrically, to talk of "oscillating" a sphere in an arc defined by a linear distance - you would talk in ANGLES, not lengths. Sungenis doesn't get this, because he's a mathematically illiterate moron.

My favourite thing about Sungenis is when he openly contradicts himself and admits the universe is not geocentric - such as when he gets around the comet problem by stating that the comet crosses the EARTH'S PATH.
Hmmmm. Do tell me how a stationary object can be said to have a "path"....

The geocentric camp has ZERO physics. You don't have gravity, we've already gone through that. Classical Newtonian physics and General Relativity is against you.
And if you want to invoke some magical "Aether", you have to account for the fact that every experiment disproves it's existence - the Michelson-Morley, Michelson-Gale-Peterson and Airy's telescope experiments, taken together, cannot be explained with an Aether. In order to invoke it for the Michelson-Gale-Peterson experiment, you have to discount the results of the Michelson-Morley experiment, because the type of Aether they support is completely different.
Geocentrifrauds are hilarious when they try to rewrite scientific history.
And even if we just accept the Aether, despite there being no evidence for its existence and everything pointing against it - you still need to supply the physical mechanism/force that explains the motions of the bodies as they move through it. Yet another important part of the physics that is completely missing from this childish conjecture.

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What's the point in repeating the same message in two different topics?

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[deleted]

You don't know if the sun is the center of the universe? That's very, very sad.

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The idea that you think you know is what is very very sad.

You don't know. Or at least I'm pretty sure you do not. Smug little punk much?

:-)

I owe my solitude to other people.

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troglodyte.

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Do you feel better after calling a stranger a troglodyte? Did that attempt at insulting a stranger help you solidify your beliefs or feel any more secure in them?

I don't know if the earth is the center. I'm astonished that you think you know that it is not. And you think you know this in the same way that you know what's in the center of your house or if your hungry or not. Astonished. Cheers!

I owe my solitude to other people.

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[deleted]

Do you feel better after calling a stranger a troglodyte? Did that attempt at insulting a stranger help you solidify your beliefs or feel any more secure in them?

I don't know if the earth is the center. I'm astonished that you think you know that it is not. And you think you know this in the same way that you know what's in the center of your house or if your hungry or not. Astonished. Cheers!

I owe my solitude to other people.

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Well...the sun isn't the center of the universe (the universe is space as a whole), just our solar system. the true center of the universe as we understand it at this point is very far, far away from here....we are not even near the center of our own galaxy. So just to sum up- our solar system is what we are always taught- venus, earth, mars, jupiter, saturn, neptune, uranus (& pluto if you're old like me) rotating around the sun. We are but one of many solar systems (and by many I'm talking a projection of about 100 billion) in a huge cluster of solar systems known as a Galaxy. The Galaxy we are a part of is the Milky Way Galaxy. There are 100 billion Galaxies in the "observable" universe, let alone how many there are which can't be seen. The nearest Galaxy to our galaxy is Andromeda. In about 4-5 billion years our Galaxy (the Milky-way) will collide with the nearest galaxy Andromeda. They will pass through each other giving quite a brilliant billion-year light show for any life left aware enough to observe it at that time. Just to give you a sense of scope and the silliness of any notion that the Earth is the center of anything besides our own personal lives. But I think it also shows how special we are in that on the one planet around that can sustain advanced life- that we can figure these things out and discover and explore- what are the chances of that? Others fear that notion a bit for whatever reason, but it doesn't frighten me that we are a lot smaller that we think, but I rather feel we are pretty unique and special to continue to learn and evolve and discover despite that smallness....

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You haven't seen the movie, have you?

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Sophistry.

Anyway, I love how you state those notions as though they were well established facts. As if you've ever even went into low earth orbit let alone surveyed the galaxy. Talking of hundreds of billions of galaxies and things that cannot be seen - but you just know definitely do exist - and what will surely happen in 5 billion years and... It's laughable and it's hypocritical and dishonest as I'm sure you'd laugh and laugh and laugh at someone arguing for their religion in that same way and using those same kind of dogmatic statements.

Look it, that's all very well and good and it MAY be true, I don't know. I'm just so astonished at how strongly you want to, and want others to think that you do, actually think that you KNOW almost any of that- let alone the bigger (galactic and beyond) stuff. It's just astonishing. And it's pretty much the opposite of what you think it is. It's not humble. It's not small. It's being so hubristic as to assume you pretty much have it all figured out, at least the general big picture stuff, and then simply because you put yourself in as a small insignificant completely random part of it you think and claim that you've somehow actually taken a small, humble, view of yourself and then try and oppose this to the view that a Creator is above humanity. But hey the priests, I mean the experts say all that stuff you rattled off is true, right? So... Astonishing. Cheers!

I owe my solitude to other people.

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