Disgusting


I'm a physician. The very first thing I did, seconds after having my medical degree conferred, was take the Hippocratic Oath. It states that above all, I will do no harm.

This documentary celebrates 4 physicians that presumably took that same oath that perform the "service" of third trimester abortions. The most common method of third trimester abortions, intact dilation and extraction (IDX), is a peculiar thing because by the third trimester, the fetus (baby) is viable outside the mothers womb. If you just induced dilation of the cervix and delivered the interuterine contents, like in a 1st trimester abortion, you'd have a living baby on your hands, and a mother that doesn't want it. How inconvenient. What to do then? These doctors deliver the baby to the neck with the baby in the breech position, leaving the head inside. They then open the base of the skull with an incision, then "decompress the cranial cavity," i.e. vacuum out the brain. The dead baby is then fully delivered after being murdered.

This is not a procedure taught in any medical school or accredited residency training program. There is a reason almost no one does it. It is infanticide, pure and simple. These fine physicians murder viable human beings.

The fact that anyone would celebrate their bravery in providing this "service," which is never medically justified, is sickening. Likely the reason it is performed is because of most, if not all of their patients are probably cash pay only, making this a money maker for our brave physicians.

I don't know how these people live with themselves. I'm not religious and I don't believe in the afterlife at all, but if there is a Hell, I hope the baby killers suffer in it for all eternity.

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"I don't know how these people live with themselves. I'm not religious and I don't believe in the afterlife at all, but if there is a Hell, I hope the baby killers suffer in it for all eternity."

Agreed. What gets me is the movie this guy was based on was at church of all places when he got shot. He did these procedures and yet went to church like there was nothing wrong with what he was doing. The Guy is the epitome of hypocrite.

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[deleted]

Did you even watch the film? That is NOT how they perform abortions.

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clkircos - that is ABSOLUTELY how they perform these abortions... if you wish to remain wholly in denial of that fact, which is very much documented, then you are beyond help..

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Well said. The the guy you quoted is one of the biggest problems in this world. Sad that he has NO IDEA that is how abortions are done. It's disgusting.

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You are wrong. That is not how they perform the abortions in this film. Maybe you should watch it and educate yourself.

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It sickens me to hear these late-term abortionists say they only perform these abortions when the mother's life is at risk. Tell that to George Tiller who would perform third-trimester abortions for the most trivial reasons. One woman had one so she could go to prom and another woman had one so she could go to a rock concert. But you're 100% correct Dr; these four monsters only do this for the money. Thankfully these four "physicians" are in their 60s and 70s so they won't be murdering human beings for much longer.

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If you buy that propaganda about late-term abortions being performed just because the women wanted to attend proms and rock concerts, I know a Nigerian prince you can easily help out in exchange for 20% of his inheritance.

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So the women were lying?

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I'm saying that citing the most trivial reasons anyone ever mentioned in the course of requesting a late-term abortion is politically useful for pro-lifers. I'm saying that a key source of the info that Tiller was performing abortions for such reasons is apparently Paul McHugh, who in addition to being Harvard-trained and a respected psychiatrist, is a practicing Catholic and very conservative, and therefore has an axe to grind.

I live in NYC, a very liberal town indeed, and I don't know any woman who would consider crushing her fetus's skull and dragging it out of her body as a reasonable measure in order to avoid having to hire a babysitter. Chances are that suggestion was very selectively extracted from context in the files of desperate girls, who cried out for help because they truly knew they did not have the resources to care for a child for the next 18 years. (But most of those would have aborted much earlier, not in the seventh or eighth month.)

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Hopefully by now you've watched the film and educated yourself rather than sticking with your imagination.

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The reason this movie hits home when you wouldn't expect it to- is because this issue is bigger than "Oh well, the mother didn't want it." I have discussed with my Husband the fact that if I find out that any child I am pregnant with will be born as a severely challenged or worse, I will terminate the pregnancy. A lot of the cases mentioned here as those sorts of cases. Not to mention the cases where if the baby is born it might several handicap the mother or worse. Third-trimester abortions may seem barbaric and even cruel but to some people it's option in the middle of all the bad choices that might be the best for them.

The fact that you feel the need to point out your job, makes me want to call complete bs on you to begin with. As a doctor, you likely have a specialized field. I've never heard a doctor merely refer to themselves as a doctor. Something tells me you've never been involved with prenatal medicine and you are not the right person to make the call that it is...

is never medically justified


Makes me almost certain you're simply an orthopedist with a grudge.

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If the mother doesn't want the child, they have every right to give it up for adoption. No one is making them keep it. Aborting a child that can viably survive if simply delivered is insane and I'm pro choice.

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Not if it would legitimately maim or murder the mother in the process. Or if it would live a life of pain and suffering due to a debilitating handicap. A mother can choose to give up her life or not- but I think its important the 'not' option remain.

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No, you are not pro-choice. You also had not watched this movie when you posted that comment. I hope you have rectified that and educated yourself by now.

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There she goes again. Sorry, some of us don't buy your sad rationalizations. I am speaking to tunaforbreakfast.

Dini

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Good thing you don't have to.

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Not sure what that means, but I can tell you if I were to become pregnant with a handicapped child, I would give birth to him or her. Fortunately, I was blessed with a healthy son and daughter.

Dini

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I am surprised that so many of the comments from the pro-life side on this film from ignore the fact that the vast majority of these procedures are performed on babies that have fatal birth defects. Such children, if born, would have very short, very painful lives. Not to mention the fact that such children are outrageously expensive to care for during their short, painful lives, and many of these families simply do not have the resources necessary to properly care for their child, which would put even more strain on a healthcare system that is already heavily strained. Given these facts, I fail to see how anyone can be against a humane euthanasia (they describe the process in the film -- the baby is given a lethal injection of a drug and then delivered as a stillbirth) when a child is GUARANTEED to have a very poor quality of life. I cannot understand why anyone would want a child (much less an entire family) to suffer with such debilitating birth defects, as discussed in this film, for their entire lives. To me, forcing children who have these fatal birth defects to be born is the ultimate cruelty.

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Well if they are going to die anyway it's not in my hands. I would not play God.

Dini

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I just want to ask a question - so anybody on life support with the decision to be made given to the relatives if they should be taken off it is also called 'playing God'? If so, in your point-of-view, should be abolished too?
Btw, I haven't yet posted my opinion on this type of abortion but I just wanted to know what your particular answer would be to the question I just posed.

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In answer to your question, if a person can not even breathe on their own, I don't think the support would necessarily need to be extended, but I could understand the difficulty of making that decision. The same would go for artificial feeding. I just don't think the two situations of abortion and euthanasia are the same. It's not tomato tomahto, it's more like apples and oranges.

Dini

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After some thinking... I still haven't come up with a definite answer. I can see and understand how they're not exactly the same. At the end of the day, again, boils down to situations. One of my cousins, elder than me, had to be taken off the machine because she had a rare disease where she just didn't grow. She was still baby size when I was about 4 years old.
My own family migrated abroad afterwards and only some years later did we hear about her parents' decision to take her off the machine. I don't know or can't remember if it was because her condition worsened or her parents could no longer bear seeing her like that, getting ill, etc. confined to the wards for babies etc.
And when I think about the situation, either way it boiled down to mercy killing.

Now, many women who abort do it for many reasons. Some selfish; most people biased against abortion would definitely think this the main reason. Some, and I think this is what biased people do not consider, is that some parents do it out of concern. Perhaps even love. Hard to imagine right? Why abort when you love the child you carry?

I don't know everyone in the world. I don't know what goes on in every other person's head. Therefore I feel I can't strongly be biased and judge everyone on the same yard stick and in such a condemning manner, just because of belief, upbringing, values etc. Maybe these doctors are just trying to help. Understanding the reasons and actually accepting the fact that not everyone is actually driven by money helps to see the whole picture as is. I've heard of women endangering themselves just because they could not get the professional help they need to abort their child. Some even go to ill-reputed places with doctors with no license. I'm not talking about their reasons to abort btw. I can't imagine nor bear to consider what they really thought. But I can now see that in some situations, it is necessary, at least, to have an open legal practice. And btw, contrary to popular belief, at least the ones featured in the docu, they screen their patients.

Wow... erm... I apologize if this is such a badly structured message. It's like 6 am and I haven't yet slept. Might re-edit later. Sorry for the late response.

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What kind of physician are you? Because there are quite a few types and let me say that unless you're an OBGYN- I'm really not going to take you seriously when you say there is no medical justifications for third trimester abortions. Women can often suffer major complications late in their pregnancy or find out in their second trimester the dangers and then wait simply because they are conflicted. Its rather disgusting you would push your agenda as fact based on your profession. Have you actually even seen the movie? These clinics only performed these types of abortions in cases of medical emergencies. And I don't really care if you're religious or not- wishing hell on someone is only going to get you there faster and no one else.

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Ugh my phone made me think that this was in response to my thread. Either way- everything I said still stands.

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I haven't monitored this thread in a long time, but I'll respond to your post.

No, I'm not an OBGYN (nor would I want to be), I'm an Ophthalmologist. I graduated from med school 7 years ago though, so it wasn't that long ago that I was catching babies on late nights. What I said was accurate, though.

When the life of an pregnant woman in the late second/third trimester is in danger (e.g. in eclampsia), you deliver the baby, you don't kill it. The reason these abortionists are so rare and so outcast is because they kill babies that are viable outside the womb. My first patient as a 3rd year med student was a baby born at 26 weeks gestational age in a class iii NICU. We didn't crush her skull and vacuum out her brain like these monsters do, we saved her. What they do is murder. Find me an OBGYN textbook that lists this as an acceptable treatment for any complication of pregnancy. You can't, because such a reference doesn't exist.

And for the record, these aren't medical emergencies at all. These are cash pay clinics that can't handle emergencies anyway.

I'm not religious. I was born a Jew and now consider myself an atheist. I mentioned that because pro-abortionist fanatics who support 3rd trimester abortions like to defame their critics as religious wackos, which im not. I value innocent life, though, and murderers and people who bring discredit on physicians deserve punishment, not praise.

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No, I'm not an OBGYN (nor would I want to be), I'm an Ophthalmologist.

Great! You're an EYE doctor. You have very little "real" medical experience, save for med school and MAYBE some experience as a PGY-1 intern somewhere.

So, for you to go on the record and say:
And for the record, these aren't medical emergencies at all. These are cash pay clinics that can't handle emergencies anyway.
seems a bit out of your area of expertise, right doc?

But, what REALLY irritated me, one medical professional to another, was this comment:

When the life of an pregnant woman in the late second/third trimester is in danger (e.g. in eclampsia), you deliver the baby, you don't kill it. The reason these abortionists are so rare and so outcast is because they kill babies that are viable outside the womb.

You REALLY let your inexperience in MEDICINE shine here. There are many reasons why the life of a pregnant woman is in danger, not just preeclampsia. Many times the woman's life is in danger because she is carrying a baby with devastating fetal anomalies. She could run into problems with peripartum cardiomyopathy, DVT's, Anemia, Gestational Diabetes...The list goes on and on.

Your comment:
My first patient as a 3rd year med student was a baby born at 26 weeks gestational age in a class iii NICU
is, again, VERY misleading. As a 3rd year "short jacket", you either stood in the corner of the delivery room or in the corner of the NICU. If you were lucky, you got to talk with the family for a bit. YOU didn't intervene, nor did you perform any type of procedures on the patient or the infant.

It's important that people understand that, as an EYE doctor, your practice is limited to the eyes. That's it. The majority of your medical experience occurred in med school, maybe PGY-1. So, for you to come on IMDB and claim all these doctors do things like
crush her skull and vacuum out her brain like these monsters do, we saved her. What they do is murder.
is just an extremist opinion, not a MEDICAL ONE.

I AM A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL. I guarantee I know more about medicine and all the things that go with it, than you do. I actually watched the doc After Tiller. I was taken aback, at first. But the majority of the women who were there to have a late term abortion were there because their child had been diagnosed, in utero, with catastrophic syndromes or other anomalies. One lady was REFERRED there after multiple physicians and specialists agreed that having a late term abortion was more HUMANE than giving birth. Another woman's child had ACC, or Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum. Her child would have non-stop seizures, starting immediately after giving birth. Go get out your OB/GYN rotation text and revisit those anomalies.

So, for and EYE DOCTOR, to claim that he knows SO MUCH about fetal health is ridiculous. I am the one who takes care of these kids AFTER they are born. Some have a decent quality of life, but most DO NOT. THEY SUFFER. They go through countless medical and surgical procedures, trachs, mechanical vent support, massive doses of seizure meds (some of which have such horrible side effects, we have to [legally] get them from other countries because they are not approved for use in the US). Of the parents that DO stick around and spend the first several years of their child's life living at one of the FEW hospitals equipped to take care of such kids, they usually end up with depression, anxiety, and a whole host of other ailments related to being a mother/father of such medically and neurologically devastated children. Most of these marriages end, so then it's up to the mom to deal with it all, alone. And those are the few that actually stick it out. Because the MAJORITY stick around at the beginning, then they start going home at night. Then the daily visits turn in to once a week, twice a month, and then maybe they visit on Christmas. All the while, people like myself, care for their child IN THE HOSPITAL (not a nursing home, there aren't any for kids like this).

So, I ask you, does this at all sound like quality of life? It isn't. It's suffering, sadness, misery, and hurt all-in-one. Sure, there are glimpses of a smile, but it's really just myoclonic jerking of the face. So, do everyone a favor and get off your high horse Mr. Right to Life, because what I've illustrated here, ISN'T LIFE! Just because someone has a pulse and is breathing does NOT mean they are also "alive" at any stretch.

Also, the MAJORITY of these anomalies ARE NOT DIAGNOSED BEFORE EIGHT WEEKS, or what ever ridiculous comment you made. THE MAJORITY ARE NOT DIAGNOSED UNTIL WELL INTO THE SECOND OR EVEN THRID TRIMESTER. Your claim that all these things can be diagnosed early is just horse manure.

So rather than coming onto IMDB and trying to shove your extremist views down people's throats, and attempting to bolster your lies by telling people that you're a doctor, you should just stick to prescribing glasses and contacts, DOCTOR. You NEVER KNOW when someone, who has a WHOLE lot more experience in the REAL WORLD of medicine will come along and knock you off your soap box.

And, BTW, no I do not condone late term abortions unless the woman has been raped (as one woman had been) or if the mother or fetus are faced with life threatening illnesses or syndromes. However, I WILL ALWAYS support a woman's right to choose because Lord knows I would NEVER want to take care of a kid that somehow survived a botched illegal abortion...



"What does a man do Walter? A man provides for his family."
-Gustavo Fring

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Bravo. Perfect response.

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Thank you very much for that response.

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What hospital would have an Ophthalmologist "catching babies"? I'd like to know so I could avoid it at all costs for any sort of problem.

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Wouldn't you agree though that in some cases late term abortion is medically justified? What about if the woman's life is in danger or the fetus is diagnosed late in the pregnancy with such a severe birth defect that it would die right after birth or live a life of constant suffering?

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Late term abortion is never medically justified. If the mother's life is in danger, you either induce them or perform a C-section. Killing a viable baby because it has birth defects is euthanasia, not medicine. If a baby has devasting birth defects, that is almost always apparent in the first trimester, as early as 8 weeks gestational age (maybe even earlier now, my obstetrics education ended in 2005). That's one of the reasons we do prenatal screening. First timester or even up to mid second trimester abortions were not the subject of this film. These were viable babies.

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I am incredibly moved that you shared your knowledge with us. As a doctor, your opinion has great value to me as an average Jane. I have worked in social services for many years until just recently, and while conditions for the poor and desperate are obviously not ideal, I know from experience that help is out there for both mother and child.


Dini

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Do you realize he is an Ophthalmologist, meaning eye doctor? Not anything to do with obstetrics, with pregnancy, childbirth, any of that, just eyes? Please watch this movie as it will be enlightening and educational as to why women get abortions rather than relying on your imagination.

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I am glad you are not my doctor because you are an idiot. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

"I love Sonny and Sonny loves me"-Carly Corinthos

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