Angulo's busted Lifelong Dream

Would've replied earlier, but got the message:

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xxpo (Fri Dec 18 2015 12:09:43)
Post Edited: Fri Dec 18 2015 13:40:56
Post Edited: Fri Dec 18 2015 18:10:09

And one also doesn't feel the need to do that here at this forum ... and mostly just brainstorms ... and then posts those thoughts ... instead of behaving as if one is turning in a term paper.

Also spend much time discussing CODEPENDENCY at the LEFTOVERS board prior to your mention of it here. And before that have also discussed this issue at other boards. So one is also aware of how there's much more info regarding this matter.

The mother reminds one of a BORDERLINE PERSONALITY. One also often finds a BPD hooked up with a NPD (like Oscar).

Watched the ending again in the PUMPKIN PATCH and the opinion remains the same. If one watches this other scene again, one suspects one will come away with the same impression again.

There was an EXPERIMENT they did at a college lecture which had about 200 students in it. What happens is a ROBBER comes into the room and attacks the professor. Then they question the students who were EYE WITNESSES to it and NONE of them were in agreement about what they'd seen. Some claim the thief wore a RED SHIRT, others say he wore a BLUE SHIRT, etc. So our not seeing something the SAME WAY is also perfectly normal and understandable.

Went back to check the article again which is why it also says:

EDITED to say ...
But had no idea who she was before the EDITED to say part was added on.
Tried using the SEARCH area at the MIAMI PAPER but had NO LUCK.

Buckley might not be a PSYCH major, but she still has the ability to contact an EXPERT in that field.

They were probably more OPEN to her due to the way she told them she's getting her PHD in FILM??? In other words, this woman also knew a lot more about the subject than they did, which also means she could help them learn more about the subject.

When xxpo met someone who now has their PHD in PARTICLE PHYSICS, for example, that person also answered many questions and helped xxpo to learn more about ASTRO PHYSICS.

Another question for your mom:
What planet in another different SOLAR SYSTEM also has rings like SATURN???

Imo, the MOTHER should have encouraged the sons to leave sooner. In fact she should also have LEFT the father instead of allow him to ABUSE the sons for 15 YEARS by keeping them LOCKED UP inside of this place.

Do you recall the 3 teenage girls who were kidnapped and HELD HOSTAGE for several years???

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/07/18103952-timeline-of-the-ohio-kidnappings-three-womens-shared-nightmare?lite

One day one of them was able to BREAK OUT and call for help. This is the same situation and the reason why one sees what the son did as being an act of HEROISM.

Maybe this sock is also disagreeing with itself as a way to bump up it's topics???

Met the TIPPLER through a girlfriend who dated him in college. His father also taught at the same UNIVERSITY we went to. So NO. We didn't grow up together.

Why do you think there's another daughter???

Other questions to ask is WHY is the mother in PERU??? HOW does she get there??? It would COST lots of money for the air fare. Where did she get it??? Did she ever have a JOB??? If so, what kind of WORK did she use to do???

Same with Oscar. WHY is he wandering around in the MOUNTAINS where he meets her. Did they BOTH have disagreements with their families???

Then there's also still the ISSUE of how the MOTHER should only get welfare for 3 YEARS before she is FORCED to get a JOB.
So HOW is she able to escape from this RULE???

Maybe because she also gets help because she also has a DISORDER like her daughter that keeps her from working??? If she's a BORDERLINE personality, that could also explain the reason why she keeps getting help from the government.

Here's another link that describes what life is like for kids of BPD/NPD parents:

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/therapy-soup/files/2014/03/[email protected]

Thank you for sharing your insights, Dr. Kipnis.
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/therapy-soup/files/2014/03/[email protected]

So IRONICALLY what we have is this NARCISSISTIC Father who refuses to let his children be exposed to what he claims is drug use in the elevator ...
who then EXPOSES them to his own SUBSTANCE ABUSE inside of this PRISON area ...
a place where they also have NO WAY to escape from it ...
the way they could have done if they were located inside of the elevator.

Would've replied earlier, but got the message ...

Of two personality types that are perpetually drawn together – the Borderline and Narcissist regularly find common attraction. Shari Schreiber, M.A. shares with us in a fascinating article about Borderline and Narcissist relationships that demystifying this attraction is no simple matter.
take a look at the attraction between the Borderline female and the male Narcissists. Obviously these roles can be, and are often, reversed. By the same token, same-sex relationships contain the same universal attraction and often more regularly. But we have to ask, why the attraction?
Both of these disordered personalities have incurred wounds to their developing ‘self’ in infancy or childhood. The attraction phenomena is generally thrilling at first but becomes dis-enchantingly pain producing. The big problem is that these patterns remain intact, despite any promise to do things differently.

If parents are unaware of the fact that they are involved in a Borderline/Narcissistic love relationship, children inevitably get caught up in the crossfire of highly explosive episodes, and so, the cycle continues. Awareness then is obviously a key factor for dealing with this issue.

what matters is resolving respective childhood traumas.[b/]

the Narcissist has long-standing wrong assumptions triggered by feelings of childhood shame of not being ‘wanted’, or not being ‘perfect’. They live with feelings of insecurity and or self-loathing,
[b]
any person involved with a Borderline – whether Narcissist or not, is subjected to proximal exposure. This means they adopt similar psychotic symptomology

A variety of betrayals during childhood have deeply fractured a Borderline's core, and psychic trauma from this period can't help but seriously impact all adult relationship endeavors. Add to this, the imprint from a narcissistic parent is retained, and may be subconsciously sought after in her adult attachments~ for who we grow up loving, is who we typically marry.

Narcissists have built-in grandiosity
His ongoing need to be in the one-up position and exert control, forms the basis of many conflicts and struggles with this couple. The sad reality is, he has typically observed these traits in a narcissistic parent while growing up, and has emulated them.

A Narcissist lover will more readily trigger his borderline partner's defensive acting-out behaviors, as his engulfment fears and self-involvement catalyze her abandonment concerns. This is a two-sided coin however, as while she's yearning for his attention and affection, she experiences painful sensations that were once confused/entwined with
loving an unresponsive parent,
and those dramatic feelings are reinvigorated--and equated with love.
Both Borderlines and Narcissists associate Love with painful longing. This is the crux of all those
come here/go away (push/pull) cycles
with this couple, and a whole lotta country western songs! Love equals pain, and vice-versa.
When their intense craving for love is met, painful sensations they've come to interpret as loving feelings, evaporate. At this point, the Borderline feels bored or annoyed, and pushes away. With healthy/whole partners who need continuity of loving feelings, the Borderline feels
emotional claustrophobia,
which compels her to disrupt episodes of authentic intimacy between them. The Narcissist responds to his need for distance and autonomy, by selecting unavailable BPD lovers who won't trigger his
engulfment fears.

When closeness and engulfment fears become heightened, both NPD and BPD partners can experience anxiety, which prompts their need to draw back. The distance between them eases some tension, but a narcissistic perfectionist makes it his fault, and experiences shame. This catalyzes his frantic efforts to win her over again. It isn't that he's needing her--he's needing reprieve from his toxic sense of unlovability and unworthiness~ which are shame-infused
emotional remnants he's carried since boyhood.

I'm often asked if Borderlines are capable of loving, and this appears to be a very central concern during the course of these relationships--and afterward, when the discarded partner needs to cling to the ideation that they were in fact, truly loved. Borderlines felt pain in relation to longing and striving for their parent's affection throughout childhood--and learned to interpret those difficult/dramatic feelings as "Love."
Chasing partners who are emotionally or physically unavailable--
or married/attached, keeps their yearning alive, and inhibits them from embracing somebody who's actually able to provide love on a consistent basis.
Narcissists are similarly attracted to someone who's slightly out of reach, for this eases engulfment concerns
(more about this, a bit further down). The search for a partner who's able to magically surmount this issue could continue for a lifetime, as the "right one" never materializes.
It's virtually
impossible for the Narcissist to accept that his BPD lover has no real capacity for love,
as during the 'good times,' he's felt jubilant, calm and at peace. To begin questioning these feelings, triggers significantly painful inner conflict--for this challenges long-held definitions of love, and what it's supposed to feel like!
Attachment difficulties in childhood strongly influence this struggle, as he had no suitable frame of reference in infancy or boyhood for consistent, nourishing attention, mirroring and affection.
Any crumbs of nurturance he got from his parents, may have solidified his immediate sense of value to them--but these episodes were miniscule/brief compared to their neglect or abuse. This early patterning has set the stage for his
obsessional attraction
to a borderline disordered individual, as he can't painfully yearn for someone who's consistently present and available! This
childhood imprint has also impaired his self-worth, and fostered people-pleasing and codependency issues.

It's critical to understand that if a Borderline partner becomes healthier through core-focused assistance, there will be considerably less chaos and conflict in this coupling, which can drudge up feelings of deadness or discontent in the narcissistic partner. He too, thrives on stimulation (whether pleasurable or painful) which triggers feelings of aliveness he can't produce for himself. At this point, he may feel the need to look outside their relationship for more excitement, or behave in ways that create disharmony between them. What this means is, the
Borderline is damned if she doesn't get well, and damned if she does~ for she may no longer be able to hold her lover's attention.

IT'S A BIRD, IT'S A PLANE--NO, IT'S SUPERMAN!
Early wounds to one's narcissism, breeds narcissistic adults. If a child had to shut down his needs and difficult feelings in order to survive the rigors of his painful childhood experiences, he may have acquired a sense of invincibility, and assumed he could handle virtually anything that came up. This was his defense or armor which shielded him from feelings of vulnerability/fragility. Since he judges these sensations as "weak" and unacceptable, they can lay dormant for many years, until he joins with a Borderline who reawakens excruciating pain he learned to put aside or adapt to as a little kid.
The core shame that's invoked within him when these feelings resurface, is monumental. He remembers how powerful, in-control and popular he was before he started up with the Borderline and his world (and ego) began to collapse. He cannot reconcile his current ("dispicable") frailty with the entrenched Superman persona he erected in boyhood--and it causes him a deep sense of embarrassment, frustration and despair. Self-worth repair within core trauma work can help him, but it's like 'boot camp' for the soul. Few will make the effort to heal and grow past the grandiose false-self, which was constructed in childhood, in order to survive back then.
SO THIS IS ANOTHER FINE MESS WE'VE GOTTEN OURSELVES INTO!
A chameleon's coloring will change according to its surrounding environment; this reptile's protective camouflage helps it capture its prey, and hide from natural predators. Borderline personalities are chameleon-like--they'll quickly discern what's important to you, and become that, in the early phase of your relationship. Most of us have been seeking this sort of romantic congruency our entire life. To even get close to finding it, can seem like a miracle! The trouble is, as soon as this guy or gal senses that they've captured you, their normal colors return--and you're dealing with a very different sort of creature.
The molting process of reptiles involves shedding their skin to accommodate growth--it's like outgrowing a Tee-shirt you wore as a child. Sadly, personal growth is threatening to Borderlines, and underneath their perfectly adoring veneer is the dark side they've hidden from you, just long enough to get you hooked. Once you're really theirs, this part emerges--and you spend the rest of your time in this dance trying to figure it all out, and reconnect with that person you fell for initially.
I'd watched this happen with a middle-aged BPD colleague, who married her lover only six months after meeting him.

A Narcissist may need to be needed, but he can't allow himself to need anyone. Sexual dependency on someone brings up deep fears about loss of love and control, and here's where his distancing maneuvers can kick in. This is not consciously held by the Narcissist--it's just an archaic defense mechanism, that helps him maintain his emotional equilibrium.
A healthy, whole woman might be disappointed to miss out on a phone call from her lover the morning after an especially close, loving evening--but the borderline-disordered female interprets the most subtle signs of neglect, as loss of love and affection. Her abandonment fears are instantly triggered. In self-defense, she shuts down, rages or takes herself away. The Borderline's been poised for this to happen anyhow, due to significant losses during childhood~ so she'll imagine abandoning behaviors, even when/where none exist.


the Borderline. She'll keep pushing the envelope until she gets a rise out of her partner. She literally thrives on drama and chaos, but rebels like a three year old, when he takes a stand-


DRAMA QUEENS AND PERFECT LITTLE PRINCES
The
narcissistically injured male continually seeks females who can perfectly mirror his attributes and qualities--and whom in some manner, need him
He then gets to assuage his abandonment concerns--but the flip-side of being needed, is being engulfed. The
Borderline can initially smother/suffocate her prey with attention that causes him to retreat or distance, because while it's flattering and eases his abandonment fears, it triggers vaguely familiar sensations of engulfment he had to endure as a boy with a controlling mother.


His constant challenge then, is staying close without being swallowed-up by the Borderline's needy, clingy, demanding nature. This challenge is lessened of course, by the Borderline's continuous pattern of seduction and retreat.
In this way, the Narcissist's fear of engulfment/too much closeness, becomes a non-issue. If he were truly emotionally available, he could not tolerate these erratic,
come here/go away patterns
--and would seek a female who is more consistently responsive to him

If this male's mother had BPD Waif features, he grew up having to meet her needs for attention, mirroring, flattery, emotional soothing, etc. She could have made him her confidant in adult matters--especially concerning issues with his dad. A little boy is overburdened by these complaints, and doesn't relish this role--but at the same time, all this special attention from Mother imbues him with a sense of value/importance--which forms the core of his self-worth. Her awareness of his needs is painfully limited, so he welcomes this 'surrogate husband' job, which (at least) provides vicarious satisfaction.
This sets him up for codependent relationships in his adult world

Will ask her when she's back from her Bavaria trip.
You didn't want my answer, did you?

The mother wasn't able to encourage the sons, cause she didn't want them to leave either.
You still see a serious abuse by the father, I don't.
He isn't a perfect father, definitely not.
As she isn't a perfect mother.
A good mother would've talked with her husband and discussed some changes in their children's education. Instead, mother Susanne victimizes herself, separates him from their children and even stabbed in his back (Lasagne-reward for breaking rules). Maybe Miss Goody Moselle helped them eating the Lasagne.

Ok, your tippler didn't have anything to do with your family.
Your tippler doesn't explain your hate against father Oscar.