Don't be stupid about racial casting - Gods of Egypt (2016) Discussion

[–] everythingangels 8 years ago

There are TONS of members of SAG that have darker skin. No one is suggesting actors that play Egyptians have to be from actual Egypt. It's only to be suggested that Hollywood and the American population maybe consider becoming diverse enough to more consistently think about casting non-Caucasians... especially where it makes so little sense to be casting Caucasians over minorities, such as this movie.

And the idea that there aren't enough "big names" when it comes to minorities is a terrible argument to be making when the problem people have is that Hollywood doesn't let minorities become those "big names" to begin with.

And the real complaint isn't even just the individual casting choices for this ONE movie... it's the system in general that "whitewashes" ALL of Hollywood and virtually ALL the movies/television we watch.

Let's pretend we lived in an awesome society which wasn't so bothered by skin color... we should expect closer to 14% of all leading roles to be members of that black population that you mention. When 99% of the leading roles go to Caucasians... it clearly suggests the American systems of entertainment haven't really progressed past the point of a clear racial divide in this country.

It's quite simply absurd to suggest that America doesn't cast minorities because of the lack of minority actors that exist though.

Personally, I think Don Cheadle is one of the finest actor around today... and his comment on roles being offered to even a man of his talents is this:

I imagine it was much different in the 1970s. That was the Renaissance for black actors, albeit in blaxploitation movies. There was a much greater preponderance of work then than there is now.
-Don Cheadle

And that's coming from one of the lucky ones out there. I think there's a lot of truth in that quote. For as much progress as we've made, we still have a lot of work to do as a people.

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[–] slickr12345 8 years ago

I see Denzel Washington, IceCube, Morgan Freeman, Samuel L. Jackson, Keith David and Will Smith in every third movie. In fact I'd say with just there several actors the black population is represented way more than 14%, realistically they should expect about 10%-18% representation based on how many there are, but they are represented over 25% in movies, over 30% in big name movies.

So clearly they are over represented.

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[–] everythingangels 8 years ago

To quote the topic headline:
"don't be stupid about racial casting"

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[–] ganjagoonie 8 years ago

Ignorance is bliss

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kuntext 8 years ago

slickr -

I mostly agree with you, except for two things.

You can't demand an Indian film for example to feature blacks, when there is virtually zero blacks in India, there just won't be blacks in Indian movies, even though India has 1.2 billion people.

Film is a creative arts medium so the limit is imagination. And, those minority Black people in India have stories worthy of telling too, wouldn't you think? Perhaps in an environment where a race is a tiny minority, depicting them on screen as a part of the culture may be even more important.

So, I would support a push towards diversity in films everywhere.

I also disagreed with this (I think):

So its not always possible for Hollywood to cast certain actor types based on skin color and it has nothing to do with racism or made up *beep* like that, and all to do with the unavailability of certain talents.

It sounds like you are saying racism is made up. If that's what you meant, then I disagree. Is that what you meant?

Susan, "but I was thinking..." Leo, "STOP! Thinking is for losers!" - Scandal's satirical message.

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[–] slickr12345 8 years ago

It is made up in 99% of the cases! It is usually made up from white sissy types who are still apologetic about things that happened 200-300 years ago, well guess what whites were also slaves back then, everyone was a slave.

You had a small aristocracy and stuff that ruled, and everyone else was essentially a slave.

Again, just the black actors I mentioned are represented in over 30% of the movies, I'm yet to see a movie where there is no black guy, especially the bigger ones who do make over 10m on the box office. So when blacks are only a small 13% of the population, yet are represented over 30% in movies, they are over represented, a realistic representation would have to have them less in movies, NOT more!

Plus from what I've seen while its true there is still some racism in certain regions against blacks, there is huge racism of blacks towards whites, in fact most whites who live in primary black neighborhoods leave due to racism and violence against them!

Also black on black is the biggest crime that goes on in black communities and black are the biggest enemies of themselves with the victim culture, drug and gang culture and not even finishing high school.

All major studies have shows you only need 3 basic things to succeed in life and have better life: Finish high school with DECENT scores, don't get pregnant out of wedlock and don't engage in criminal activity!

Blacks who finish drama school or engage in acting consists of less than 0.5% on the black population.

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[–] everythingangels 8 years ago

It is usually made up from white sissy types who are still apologetic about things that happened 200-300 years ago, well guess what whites were also slaves back then, everyone was a slave.

The stupid thing is that I really think you believe all the nonsensical gibberish that you're spouting.

And just because there's a SLIVER of truth to some of the words you're saying... and I mean the TINIEST LITTLE SLIVER... that doesn't make anything you're saying true.

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[–] kuntext 8 years ago

Hi slickr :)

It appears that race is an issue you feel passionate about but it also seems that the information which you use to support your conclusions is unreliable. I read the thread, so I don't just mean in this post... where are you getting your statistics? Please post links. :)

http://mason.gmu.edu/~montecin/web-eval-sites.htm

It is made up in 99% of the cases! It is usually made up from white sissy types who are still apologetic about things that happened 200-300 years ago, well guess what whites were also slaves back then, everyone was a slave.

You had a small aristocracy and stuff that ruled, and everyone else was essentially a slave.

This is one reliable source:

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2015/05/06/institutional-racism-is-our-way-of-life

Again, just the black actors I mentioned are represented in over 30% of the movies, I'm yet to see a movie where there is no black guy, especially the bigger ones who do make over 10m on the box office. So when blacks are only a small 13% of the population, yet are represented over 30% in movies, they are over represented, a realistic representation would have to have them less in movies, NOT more!

Source links please. :)

One of my favorite films about slavery and racism and uniting hearts and minds to make actionable progress:

Amazing Grace

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454776/?ref_=nv_sr_5

The facts about minority representation in media can be found here:

https://youtu.be/2rAPOaejTeE

The elephant in the room is that it is women whom are under-represented. The issue of depictions of minorities will be at least halfway addressed by solving the disparity for women. But, racism serves the divide and conquer agenda, so the problem is ongoing. The oppression of women is hardly a discussion on the table and the propaganda would have us believe that racism is a larger and more dangerous problem than sexism, but the facts are there for those interested.

I suggest these sources, but there are many other valid options, too. :)

CIA World Factbook

World Health Organization

Amnesty International

American Civil Liberties Union

Taking even a half hour of your life to peruse these sites does expand the personal view which may be a great step towards making the world a more fair place for all of us. :)

All major studies have shows you only need 3 basic things to succeed in life and have better life: Finish high school with DECENT scores, don't get pregnant out of wedlock and don't engage in criminal activity!

Which studies, specifically?

I ask because I always like to see what others have found credible and useful but also because your information is so different from mine. :)

The most remarkable study I've seen about pregnancy showed that in in America, the leading cause of death of pregnant women was homicide at the hands of their boyfriend or husband. Here's one source but there are many.

"We found that homicide was the leading cause of death among women who were pregnant ... and accounted for 20% of deaths among that group, compared with 6% of deaths among nonpregnant women of reproductive age," says author Isabelle Horon, DrPH, from the Maryland Department of Health and Mental Hygiene...

http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20010320/number-1-cause-of-death-in-pregnant-women-murder

Women of color are a part of that statistic as are all of their male and female babies.

I find a need to bring up sexism in discussions of racism because they are both forms of supremacy in which the entitled experience a kind of mental blindness towards those they oppress even as the bodies pile up around their feet.

Did you know about the danger of being pregnant near a loving male? Probably not... even though it's that large of a problem. My point is that when it comes to racism, people of all colors are trying to tell everyone whom isn't aware that our Black American men are under siege, our Black women suffer in a myriad of other ways and the problems have to stop.

In a literal sense, I agree that "racism" is made up. Yeah, it's a socially constructed and perpetuated - choice. We don't have to be this way. But, if you mean that racism is an invention unrelated to facts, then I refer you to the links I provided and to the agencies I listed for some fact-gathering.

I also agree that a racist mind may inhabit anybody, regardless of pigmentation, but I think that people often confuse the one-on-one experience with institutional racism, which is quite different.

It's my belief that if the shared goal were that everyone be treated fairly, racism and sexism would come to a natural end. (and yes, I do get called "naive" and "rose-colored glasses" and "Pollyanna") LOL

Because these racial topics come up so often, I decided to start adding facts to the threads if I'm going to post. I hate being a hamster on a wheel, so rather than argue opinions, I prefer to post links and to remain open to the information others share. So, please, share your links. :)

I don't think they should have apologized for this film's casting because it's fictional so it only has the parameters the writer gave the story itself. That said, I wasn't in the casting director's office so I don't know if there was a racist agenda going on there and they know it, and that is why they apologized. Or some other reason. I'll take their word for it that they did a racist thing which merited an apology.

ETA: Edited to correct a link.

Susan, "but I was thinking..." Leo, "STOP! Thinking is for losers!" - Scandal's satirical message.

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[–] slickr12345 8 years ago

Blacks owned blacks. Who do you think sold all those slaves? Black people all over Africa owned black slaves and sold them to Europeans and Americans.

If you go back 300 years before that, most people in Europe were serfs and slaves, they didn't have any rights, they couldn't own property, they didn't have fair trials, they had to pay whatever taxes the ruler said so on his whim, they weren't allowed to speak freely, they weren't allowed to publish books, etc...

Everyone, but the aristocrats and ruling elites were slaves or close to slaves. They didn't have any rights, this started changing with the Magna Carta in England and then slowly over time, over hundreds of years it spread all over Europe. Finally by the time European people weren't abject slaves and serfs, they spread over other continents and before the industrial revolution was in full swing, black slave owners offered to sell black slaves as slave labour.

When the industrial revolution took full swing in Europe and they didn't need slaves they started selling them to the colonies outside of Europe.

Anyways just because blacks were slaves 300 years ago, they shouldn't be treated as special people now!

If they want representation in movies they can first of all finish high school, get into college, finish drama school, work really hard and they'll possibly get a chance to become a movie actor.

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kuntext 8 years ago

slickr - You either misunderstood me or you disrespected my standards. You replied to my saying this with a bunch of unsubstantiated opinion.

Because these racial topics come up so often, I decided to start adding facts to the threads if I'm going to post. I hate being a hamster on a wheel, so rather than argue opinions, I prefer to post links and to remain open to the information others share. So, please, share your links. :)

I'll rephrase - on matters of fact, I'm only interested in your research on the topic which either supports or refutes the links I posted. Or, new information.

On matters of fact, I am not so enamored with the opinions of others as they are themselves. Why would I give any weight at all? LOL Who cares?

Also, you have undermined anyone's ability to take your points seriously on this by saying this:

blacks were slaves 300 years ago,

Are you using a KKK manual for your "facts"? See what I mean about stating your source so what you are asserting may be verified? It's a standard for a reason.

In my previous post I provided many links and I leave you to them. Please don't reply to me on this topic again without providing your own linked sources. There are others here whom are interested in unsupported opinions so your attention is better placed there.

~~~ "Thinking" involves a lot more work than simply "having a thought"! ~~~

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[–] slickr12345 8 years ago

Blacks owned slaves and sold them to the Americas. That was almost 300 years ago, if blacks aren't represented enough in movies(they are over 30%, when they only account for 13% of the population) then they should actually finish school and through very hard work try and become an actor.

I'm sure most people would want to become famous actors or singers earning tens of millions of dollars, that can't be the case.

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[–] titans_58 8 years ago

I agree with everything you said.

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[–] projectpat72988 8 years ago

You really think intelligence plays a role in this? We are in the AWESOME backwards minded age of ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE EVIL RACISTS and THERES NO BLACK PEOPLE ON TV. Go watch a TV show and tell me how many bosses in law enforcement positions are black...more than half? I can't recall a show lately that doesn't have minorities in it....apparently anything less than EXACTLY 50/50 is racism...and then someone would cry about who is the star....it will never end. Its pure evil that in a country with a white majority there just so happen to be more white people on a TV show or movie.

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[–] everythingangels 8 years ago

Go watch a TV show and tell me how many bosses in law enforcement positions are black...more than half

That's the thing though, the police captain is often shown to be black to suggest the show is progressive... and then at least 80% of the cops are white.

Let's just pretend this hypothetical show is in NYC.

Did you know that whites only make up 33% of the population in NYC? Whites make up about 54% of the police force in the NYPD though.

I can't recall a show lately that doesn't have minorities in it....apparently anything less than EXACTLY 50/50 is racism...

Well, again, if we're talking about this hypothetical police show... about 50% of the police force SHOULD be minorities if we're trying to represent a true picture of the diversity of the NYPD... and there should be A LOT more minorities that make up the non-police in our hypothetical show than what we typically find.

...and then someone would cry about who is the star....

Well... why not?!?!? Honestly, that's the biggest issue... minorities DO get roles in our television shows and movies... but they very seldom get leading roles. Why would that possibly be, do you think? Is it because Hollywood is racist and just doesn't like minorities? I think they like money, myself. So... what's going on here? A rudimentary knowledge of statistics tells us that the numbers can't possibly be attributed to a fluke. The numbers are very telling. So... what do YOU think they mean?

I don't think anyone being remotely honest can't concede the point that the reason minorities don't tend to have the better roles and instead get relegated to mostly "token" ones is because viewers don't want to see minorities in leading roles. If the American viewers don't want to watch minorities in leading roles... you can call it "racist" or whatever you like, but you sure as heck can't call it "equal" or "fair." And how do we change this? By people realizing how freaking stupid they are and accepting others. That's the only way to get past all of this. Unfortunately, most people don't really want to get past their primitive thinking and will insist on playing some sorta "blame game" instead where they act like "the other side" is victimizing THEM somehow...

I'm sorry, anyone that thinks Caucasians are somehow the victim in all of this are just unbelievably unreasonable. That notion is beyond absurd.

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[–] projectpat72988 8 years ago

Victim? Jeeesus christ.

Again intelligence has NOTHING to do with this.

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[–] everythingangels 8 years ago

If you think "white culture" is being attacked and that's why we have to deal with so many minorities on television then... what's wrong with the word "victim?"

And of course intelligence has SOMETHING to do with this.
http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1968042,00.html

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[–] projectpat72988 8 years ago

Random 6 year old article on the internet that says Liberals are more intelligent than others. Man....To think all I needed to do to prove something was post someone elses opinion about it!?

Wait...omg this guy knows all about me!

Yes the victims are NOT the white people. The victims are the black people who didn't get a job based solely off the fact they are black. I mean look at TV today its clearly racist against black people. Any other civilized nation mass producing TV like the USA would absolutely be showing minorities as a majority and or in equal numbers on tv.

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[–] everythingangels 8 years ago

Any other civilized nation...

"True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else."
-Clarence Darrow

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[–] projectpat72988 8 years ago

Well thanks for the quote. You think black people not getting cast to fill some minority quota is an injustice....

I heard things used to be really awful in the past....nah.

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[–] everythingangels 8 years ago

"Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning."
-Benjamin Franklin

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[–] JonsAngelCat 8 years ago

Apparently, people have lost their collective minds. We have a movie about a mythical Ancient Egypt where most major characters a giant, shape-shifting "immortal" humanoids who bleed liquid gold... and you lot are freaking out over skin color. Really?

Yes, fine, it could've had more diversity, I won't argue that. Movies in general could. But we're talking about characters from an ANCIENT culture, GODS at that. Can anyone truly say what they should've looked like?

Basically, get over it, and get over yourselves. IT. IS. A. MOVIE. So... chill.

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] imdb-56312 8 years ago

Well, the characters are not supposed to speak English either...

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[–] MydnightRose 7 years ago

I don't think there should be many black actors cast as Egyptians depending on the timeline of the story. A movie about Nefertiti cast a black actress, a movie about Cleopatra moat likely European.

As doe this movie I do think they should have cast more people who looked like Hathur... I believe her name is Aloda? Seeing as how the movie failed so bad I think it would have made more money if all the cast was Egyptian or Middle Eastern.

1. BVS 2. TWS 3. Avengers

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[–] Duke-56 7 years ago

Who here was alive at the times of this movie...EGYPT....for all we know they were WHITE....but there were a few Africans....and even Mexicans in the cast....lots of UK dudes... so what?............this is not a documentary..... ...its entertainment.....and the goal was to make money.....it did not except worldwide.... There are no walking metal animals back then either...

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[–] nihilistic_tyranny 7 years ago

You know honestly, the biggest reason I wasn't bothered by the whitewashing was because the film really felt like it was trying to build its own world that was heavily influenced by ancient Egypt. Or maybe that's because it was such an awful film that I had so many other things to complain about...

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law!

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