MovieChat Forums > Belle (2014) Discussion > When did Dido and Davinier fall for each...

When did Dido and Davinier fall for each other?

posted 10 years ago by pentecostpower
22 replies | jump to latest

Well I just saw Belle and absolutely LOVED it! Dido Lindsay's courage to stand up for her people, to have the courage to love and the courage to be loved in return makes her, to me, the Queen Esther of her day. Kudos to all who brought us this timeless and inspirational story!

I equally enjoyed the love story between Dido and John Davinier, aspiring abolitionist and apprentice of Lord Mansfield, Dido's great uncle. What I liked most was how it gradually and naturally took place, considering their rocky start. First, there were those intense gazes and that tight embrace as fireworks were literally going off around them.

It was quite apparent John fell in love with Dido when: (1) she brought him the map of the Zong ship; (2) he praised her mother for Dido's beautiful traits (in contrast to ole boy Oliver's insult); (3) he urged Dido to marry the man who truly treasured her and not settle and (4) he was honest with her about his unwanted arranged marriage.

And of course, let's not forget John's stirring, PASSIONATE declaration to Dido right before Lord Mansfield in the carriage (surely there are just as bold and affectionate gentlemen like that today!)

I didn't quite detect though when Dido fell for John, except at the end, though I'm sure it happened before then. So when do you think Dido and John fell in love with each other?

[–] slrussell1908 10 years ago

I loved Belle as well.

I think Belle first fell in love with John when they bumped into one another in London at Elizabeth coming out. When she left Oliver to join John and when John pulled her close to him to hide from Momma Mansfield , Lady Ashford and Lady Mary.

[–] pentecostpower 10 years ago

Good points, sirussell1908 . . . that's right - Dido did ditch Oliver to apologize to John . . . that's something we'd do when we really like a guy . . and now that you mention it, Dido did seem a little too comfortable in John's arms when he shielded her from Lady Mansfield and the others in London . . .but with those deep, tender and caring eyes I wouldn't blame her . . .what others do you recall?

[–] princeariom 10 years ago

(surely there are just as bold and affectionate gentlemen like that today!)

Sure there are. They are usually found in a corner being discreet because the club music is so loud they can't even make heart bleed statements while they watch their loved woman get taken by idiotic bad boys that are all the rage these days. Then that very same woman will turn 30 and ask her friends about where are the good guys at.

Only, by then, the good guys will have learned that being a good guy sucks and gets you nothing and it is much more profitable, in terms of getting women, to treat them like dirt.

If a guy comes out and makes a grand gesture about his love to a girl, he will probably just get on youtube and get rejected because he was too intense and lame... Basically you girls are murdering this sort of bloke.

[–] slrussell1908 10 years ago

So after re watching I think when Davinier started to fall for Belle was when she was sitting for the portrait the way he stared at her and when he touched her hand by the window explaining the Zong to her they sure did have great chemistry.

[–] sunshine1601 10 years ago

I apologize in advance for this lengthy response.

I think John realized his attraction for Dido when he stole a glance (and got caught) of her sitting for the portrait. I think their conversation after that moment made him see her differently as he sensed her vulnerability and desire to learn more about what was going on in the world outside of Kenwood Manor. His attraction only grew for her the night of the fireworks when she snuck away from Oliver to chat with him (the sudden embrace and the way the camera framed there faces spoke volumes). I think at that point as well he began to see her as an intellectuall equal ("I've never heard anyone talk the way you do...") and him telling her where she could find him hanging out was a subtle indication that he wanted to see her again and get to know her better.

When she takes him up on his offer and brings along Lord Mansfield's notes, I believe that's the moment when he fell in love with her because she was risking her relationship with her "father" for him and the cause, and again he found her brain to be sexy. On the walk they take afterward he's wearing his heart on his sleeve and you can see how crushed he is when Dido tells him she's engaged. I don't think that deters him though as they continue to have their secret courtship getting to know one another on a more personal level apart from their political ideals. And indeed he does win her over in the end.

Dido, on the other hand, is not as easy a read, but perhaps it's her natural inclination to be somewhat guarded given her peculiar place in society. There's the initial disdain they both felt for one another, but then he becomes the one person who is straight with her and opens her mind to what's really going on beyond Kenwood. She thrives on that and probably looks forward to their brief exchanges. It doesn't hit her until after he's dismissed that there was something there.

Seeing John again the night of the fireworks stirs up feelings in Dido and you can see it on her face when she sees him again for the first time since his departure from Kenwood. Again, there's heat between them during their sudden embrace and conversation of equals.

When they secretly meet for the first time, I think Dido starts to fall for John during their walk when he acknowledges and appreciates her heritage and they talk of women, rank and of marriage and being equals in that institution. She can sense John's feelings for her and she cuts him off admitting her engagement so as to keep both of their feelings in check. When John tells Dido that "he'd hope [Oliver] would marry [her] even if she was penniless", I think that's her turning point where she reassesses her self-worth and what she's potentially marrying into while at the same time she's getting to know John better, seeing how much better a match they are and ultimately falling in love. I think she's in love with John when he professes his love to her (and Lord Mansfield) and is then forbidden to see him, but she just hasn't vocalized it yet. I imagine she shared it with Elizabeth after the Davinier fallout and the dissolution of her engagement.

Again, I apologize for the thorough analysis.

[–] pentecostpower 10 years ago

sunshine 1601 - I thought your post was very well done and thank you so much for your insight. I completely missed it when John got caught staring at Dido at her portrait sitting, a great point you and another responder posted, and his subtle invitation to join her at the inn.

You also brought up a good point how Dido might have initially been attracted to John, but was reserved about her feelings because of her social status. But I think that all melted away once she realized that John truly saw her and truly loved her for who she was, not what he could gain like racist Oliver and his equally-racist money-hungry mammy.

And, like you pointed out, it was evident Dido began falling for John the more they met in secret. I mean, John meant a lot to Dido for her to go against her Papa's wishes and risk her social status.

I was wondering, when they saw each other after John left Kenwood, did you notice Dido (1) never took her eyes off of John and (2) dang near forgot all about Oliver next to her when she introduced them, while still gazing at John? Their mutual attraction was there all along and grew as they came to know, accept and love each other for who they were and what they became to each other - their ultimate true love.

[–] sunshine1601 10 years ago

Pentecostpower, I did pick up on that. Dido totally forgot about Oliver for a second. I also found it interesting that the morning after her engagement she runs off to go meet John. Although she was grateful to Lord Mansfield for allowing it, she wasn't happy like a newly engaged girl should be and she seemed a bit dazed. When she noticed Lady Mary reading the student paper about the insurance case it's almost as if she was instantly reminded of John and maybe felt the need to tell him personally about her engagement before he heard it elsewhere. Bringing him Zong case files was a farewell gift or something to soften the blow.

I know I read into that too much, but indulge me :-)

[–] pentecostpower 10 years ago

Hi there, sunshine1601 and everyone! Good points as always . . .you said to indulge you, so here it goes . . .

I just saw the movie again (I know - shocker, right :) and I realized that Dido fell in love with John in the carriage when they were confronted by Lord Mansfield. It was the way how she begged her great uncle to stop badgering John, placing herself between them as if to shield him from Mansfield's stinging insults (although John held his own, as always, when he squared off with Mansfield).

Another sign, also in the carriage, was when Dido called John by his first name for the first time, noting that she finally saw and loved him for the true gentleman and good match he was for her, regardless of what others thought or class and social barriers of the day.

I also think their affinity for each other greatly developed during their secret courtship and I think Dido, in part, went to the Zong hearing because she would see John. The way they held and looked at each other with excitement and affection, not to mention John's tender stroking of her face, confirmed to others around them - including Mansfield - their genuine love for each other.

Well those are my thoughts for now, so it's now back to you and others . . .I'm eager to hear your thoughts :)

[–] sunshine1601 10 years ago

...Or was she already in love with John before the carriage confrontation with Lord Mansfield and her defending and shielding John from his words was her grand gesture of love...?

I think Dido also went to the reading of the verdict more for her uncle although I'm sure she knew John would be there. The film is just as much about their paternal relationship/love as it is about her romance with Davinier. She wasn't sure which way her uncle's decision was leaning. To her the verdict was a personal statement that publicly legitimized her place in society and in her uncle's heart.

"When people tell me they are happy my ass begins to twitch." ~ Luc (French Kiss)

[–] slrussell1908 10 years ago

Good one sunshine....I think she was falling in love with John before the carriage confrontation with Lord Mansfield and when you are in love or care deeply about someone you will defend them like she did with Papa Mansfield.

[–] pentecostpower 10 years ago

Good points as always. . .so then, why do you think John looked at Dido first before responding to Mama Mansfield's invitation to dinner?

And when the ladies were discussing his engagement in the garden, all of them nodded back to John except Dido, who had a certain look on her face that even Aunt Mary noticed. I think it was more than because she wasn't facing him. Could it be that she was trying to conceal her disappointment about his engagement and suppressing her feelings, even back then, for him?

She also had that same look at breakfast when Aunt Mary mentioned John was in London. What do you think that meant? It's possible I could be reading more into it, but I can't help it - I love this part of the story that much. I'd like to know what do you and others think of these instances and any others, not mentioned previously, regarding Dido and John's feelings for each other?

[–] sunshine1601 10 years ago

Pentecostpower~

Dido and John were still in their "hate" stage when Lady Mansfield asks him to dinner. I didn't really read much into him looking at Dido first because with his questions to her following the invitation, he just seems confused as to why she isn't dining with her family.

First off, Lady Mary is the biggest Dido-Davinier shipper which she indicates by what she says and her actions. When the ladies are discussing John's engagement and he appears I felt she didn't turn around out of pride and maybe embarrassment/shame. If you remember their previous encounter was about race and class and how he of lower class is permitted to dine with her family, but because of her race she is not. That conversation ended with him leaving in a huff and her feeling some self-hatred. She's saving face by not acknowledging him. Lady Mary sees Dido's reaction to John's presence and is maybe concerned because she sees Dido is upset, not necessarily that she senses Dido has feelings for John. Now when Lady Mary name-drops that Davinier is in London when they are she does it intentionally for Dido as at that point she knows there's a mutual attraction between the two or at least feels the two would be a good match.

She also handed Dido the handkerchief in support after she told off Lady Ashford and ended her engagement with Oliver. Lady Mary missed out on her chance at love because of her mother and she doesn't want that for Dido. I'm sure she had heard about Dido's secret meetings with John and his protestation of love for her at that point from her brother which makes her even more endearing. She also silently cheers Dido on when they catch each other's eyes before Dido sneaks out to hear the Zong verdict (and meet John).

When people tell me they are happy my ass begins to twitch. ~ Luc (French Kiss)

[–] slrussell1908 10 years ago

Well written and good points sunshine.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] marcyg68 10 years ago

I'm absolutely OBSESSED with Belle. To say that I love it is an understatement. Best love story I have seen in a long time and very much in the vein of my favorite Jane Austen books.

I think the attraction between John and Dido was there almost from the beginning. You can sense it (1) when Dido caught John watching her while she was sitting for her portrait; (2) when Dido seemed to lose her composure when she saw John at Vauxhall Gardens in London; (3) when they stood close together as John grabbed her in the Gardens.

To me, they were drawn together because of their common interest in the Zong, it was almost a "meeting of the minds", so to speak. They also got on very well and have complementary personalities - both strong-minded, intelligent and with a strong sense of justice. By the time they got together on their first walk behind the meeting house, they were already in love and may have realized it at that time. Unfortunately for them both, there was a complication (3rd party).

Writing about it just makes me want to watch it again. What a satisfying and incredible love story.

[–] joy2dai 9 years ago

At first sight. It is apparent that he loved her when he first saw her at the house.

[–] pentecostpower 9 years ago

Welcome Joy2dai! Thanks for your comment. When do you think this took place? A friend of mine said she'd first noticed it when Mansfield formally introduced them in his study as Dido came to tell him about the painting, which I totally missed cause I just thought they absolutely hated each other.

I thought it was evident in John's responses as they walked after she gave him the map. They were so subtle in their approach that, to me, it makes their love story more romantic and the more and more others share, the more I see how they naturally fell for each other. So please, share your thoughts!

[–] first-things-first 9 years ago

I believe she realized it the moment she found out he was engaged. The look on the face told us of her heart, not her head.

Your second life is never like your first. Sometimes it's even better

[–] hka-3 9 years ago

I'll have to pay closer attention to that . I didn't get a good enough look at her face during that scene.

Mag, Darling, you're being a bore.

[–] nunyabiznesskay 9 years ago

I will never forget that declaration: He said it WITH HIS CHEST!

[–] torchwood1963 9 years ago

Below are just some of the scenes which spring to mind when I think they were falling in love with each other.

The portrait sitting where Davinier is watching Dido and then Dido looks up and catches him looking. She then leaves the room and whilst in conversation he ever so gently touches her hand which spoke volumes. (She could have ignored him but she chooses to get up and used the excuse she had been sitting there for ages)

When she finds out that he is engaged and she cannot look at him. (Was she falling in love with him here as she is saddened to hear of this)

The scene in the garden with the fireworks and the way he embraces her and she does not pull away and they are just so close. (She went looking for him, so had a purpose)

John invites Dido to the meetings/secret courtships (in my eyes) which are held in the inn to discuss the ship Zong. He looks surprised that she has come to see him when he knows what could happen if Lord Mansfield found out. (She did not have to go but she wanted to see him and with them both wanting justice)
They go for the walk around the dock; he wanted to spend more time with her. (She with him)

The most powerful scene where John declares his love for Dido when confronted by Lord Mansfield, his heart on his sleve and the powerful way those lines were said. (Just took my break away). No pun intended with the line John delivers.

Look upward... and share the wonders I have seen, John Crichton, Farscape

[–] sabrinambayi-1 8 years ago

ok what about when dido founds out that davenier is getting married and she dosen't want to look behind her when davenier arrives and stop to look at them you can tell he wanted to see dido but she didn't turn around instead her cousin and her aunt turn around and noded by saying hello to him he even waited a few seconds for her to turn around but she didn't even lady mary looked at her and him and clocked I have the feeling that at that moment there was some sort of attraction between the two can someone please anylise it for me thank's and tell me what you think