MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015) Discussion > The complete SUCCESS on an artistic leve...

The complete SUCCESS on an artistic level.


I saw someone talking about how this movie failed artistically and I felt compelled to put forward the counter argument.

It boggles my mind that so many people seem to think this film is shallow. How? It examines the role of the hero. If anything, Captain America: Winter Soldier was a very by numbers movie because Cap was always the hero, he was always the boy scout and always doing the right thing.

In Avengers 2 we examine just what the right thing is.

In trying to save the world, Tony over steps the line and creates something that will ultimately destroy it - but that's not the point. The point of this movie is accepting that we CANNOT save the world, we CANNOT stop evil from happening and all we CAN do is fight to protect what we hold dear.

The lesson is learnt and we see this at the end of the movie. Always Tony Stark has been Iron Man flying through the air but at the end we see him as a normal man driving a normal, real car. He has been humbled. He has learnt that he cannot save the world.

It's a message to all of us, I think. Protect and hold dear but do not try to control and change the world. It won't work, it can't work and it will ultimately lead to conflict and death.

I think Joss touched on this in Serenity, where they talked about how the Alliance were "trying to make people better" but it did not work.

A very thoughtful film with brilliant moments that do hit home. If Avengers united heroes, Avengers 2 humbled them and taught them their role in the wider scheme of things.

10/10 It delivered everything I wanted to see, I had a blast watching it and I found the film's message to be a thoughtful and accurate one.





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I wouldn't give this a 10, and I don't think Ultron was a very memorable villain, but I definitely agree with your point. The movie was successful, delivered enough funny moments and certainly enough action to be a satisfying theatre experience. Anyone who was expecting more had their expectations way too high, it gave you everything you wanted from the first film, just on steroids this time around.

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Nice post op:
Pointed out things that I hadn't noticed. My favorite moment was the last conversation between the fantastically designed Vision and the last Ultron. The Vision telling him that despite their obvious flaws: its a pleasure being amongst humanity but that we are doomed as a species ( though hopefully not for a very long time ).
Hopefully over time this movie will be much more appreciated. Most of the jokes were great and timed perfectly; yet people protest there was too much humor. Not every comic book movie has to be dark and gritty to be a standout.
Thanks again op. Nice post indeed. Kudos.

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I meant favorite dramatic moment. The action scenes were phenomenal and everything that watching a movie on a big screen are all about.

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Absolutely.

I think a lot of critics of this movie already had an idea of what they thought this movie should be, which is why it disappoints them.

I too admired The Vision/Ultron final scene. Vision was fantastic which I was not expecting and his cloak looked great!




The Nth Doctor Adventures - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9OBLh4UAdzRgWWkSCD4h7w/feature

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I think a lot of critics of this movie already had an idea of what they thought this movie should be, which is why it disappoints them.
This is so true. A lot of the time it isn't even a matter of expectations being too high, it's more about just having expectations at all. Or maybe just expectations that are too specific. If you form too many expectations you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I'm not perfect. I've had this experience with many movies that I've looked forward to. But then I've often found that I've enjoyed them more on a second viewing, since the second time around I'm not expecting anything other than what it actually is. When a movie doesn't need to live up to the imaginary movie in my mind it often works better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FE9SLJ2Xoc

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Just wait until everyone gets this movie home and gets to digest the cool things they see on screen.

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"The Wal-Mart customer is the Disney/ABC viewer," says Ben Sherwood, president of Disney/ABC Television Group. I resemble that remark. I guess we'll see more Marvel DVD's at Wl-Mart is she still has connections.















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCBiJ3QJnk&feature=player_embedded

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 @ artistic success. This film was a gigantic bloated mess while at the very same time nearly void of plot or coherency.

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wrongview, that's fine if you think that but the general consensus is that this movie is a success.

I've also given reason and thought as to why this movie succeeded. Why exactly do you think it failed?

Bloated mess? Not at all. It was easy to follow, the characters were well developed and I was not lost at any point. Void of plot or coherency? I've already talked about the plot and how it examines the theme it's going for so I disagree with you and as for coherency... it was coherent, easy to follow and easy to understand whilst being thoughtful and developing the universe.



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For me, it was unsuccessful for several reasons, but the main five to me are as follows...

1. The edit. The edit was one of the worst I've ever seen from a major motion picture. There are scenes that seem to be cut off in mid-sentence of someone speaking, or right in the middle of a character doing something, and Whedon flashes over to a new scene and then inexplicably goes back to the other scene and the characters are in completely different positions doing something else entirely or are in a completely different location from where they were from the last moment we saw them. Had Whedon cut out Hawkeye's false death flag scenes at the farmhouse and cut out Banner's and Romanoff's unconvincing romance he would've had more running time to be able to explore the characters more as well as their motivations. As a result of a poor edit, the film thus suffers from multiple continuity errors.
2. The writing. The screenplay felt like a thousand people had contributed one sentence each, the writing felt juvenile and sometimes sexist(which is mind-boggling given that Whedon criticized Jurassic World for the exact same thing on twitter), and the dialogue was delivered by the cast in a very ham-fisted sortof way.
3. The villain never felt menacing.
4. The action set-pieces relied far too much on cgi, and much of the action on-screen felt completely incoherent. The basic look of the fight scenes and action scenes looked like the basic equivalent of some newbie hiker standing in the middle of a swamp swatting mosquitos.
5. The film itself could not stand on it's own, like for instance the original The Avengers or Captain America: The Winter Soldier could. A person could walk right into the theater and be entertained and know what's going on if they had not seen even a single other Marvel Studios film while watching Captain America: The Winter Soldier or the original The Avengers. If non-comicbook reading movie-goers and/or ticket-buyers who may not have seen all of the rest of Marvel Studio's cinema and television productions, then those people would be moderately lost while viewing Avengers: Age of Ultron in my opinion.

At any rate, these are my main reasons for personally believing this film to be a far, far inferior movie to the original Marvel's The Avengers.

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I accept that everything you've listed is your opinion, but I'd just like to address your points with my own if I may;

1. I'm honestly not sure what you mean here. The edit felt just like every other Marvel movie. Like I said above, I was not lost at any point and I didn't notice anything you seem to have.

2. I absolutely disagree. The one-liners, the motivations, the character interaction all felt very well done.

3. I don't think the villain was meant to be the focus. What he was trying to do and how this reflected on the Avengers was the focus. I agree that Ultron could have done more "evil" things - like Loki did with that eye gouger thing in the first one - but I enjoyed Ultron and felt he more than served his purpose.

4. It's going to be CGI heavy. It's got to be. End of. I was very impressed and enjoyed the spectacle.

5. This is where you are undoubtedly wrong, I am afraid. I went to see it with a few mates, some of which hadn't watched the solo movies and had only seen the first one when it came out in cinema, and they enjoyed it as much as I did.




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1. The edit. The edit was one of the worst I've ever seen from a major motion picture. There are scenes that seem to be cut off in mid-sentence of someone speaking, or right in the middle of a character doing something, and Whedon flashes over to a new scene and then inexplicably goes back to the other scene and the characters are in completely different positions doing something else entirely or are in a completely different location from where they were from the last moment we saw them. Had Whedon cut out Hawkeye's false death flag scenes at the farmhouse and cut out Banner's and Romanoff's unconvincing romance he would've had more running time to be able to explore the characters more as well as their motivations. As a result of a poor edit, the film thus suffers from multiple continuity errors.
That's not called continuity errors, it's called a montage. For christs sake, look up what both of those things are.

If you thought the writing was sexist, then you weren't paying attention either.

No one was lost, except for you, guy.

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The film was WAY too fast passed, that's one of it's biggest problems.

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There's no bleeping way this wasn't a big league film.

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Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be an Avenger.







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCBiJ3QJnk&feature=player_embedded

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It may not have made Force Awakens money but it was nothing to sneeze at in terms of box office. In terms of quality, AoU is clearly the better movie.




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Art is in the eye of the beholder and in the drawer at the box office.

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It was a success artistically as well as financially. When you deliver on both fronts, you are in rare territory and indeed an all-time classic.

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Great performances by the cast mainly the new kids on the block vision,scarlet with,hawk ehh no new hahaha.Everyone whose nitpicking this film are the one who are saying that FF is a masterpiece and a serious contender for the oscars

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Any way you break it down, this film was amazing and a success on every level.

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Maybe it’s just my inner Vin Diesel (action movies deserve Oscar consideration) but I think that Oscar should be heading towards this movie on many levels. In a just world, I could see it getting nominated in multiple categories. It’s simply that great of a movie.

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Marvel and the MCU is art pure and simple. In fact, it hits above Shakespeare for most people in the 21st century.

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has this thread reached the peak of absurdity given it has now been described as better than shakespeare? students will be studying and re-enacting this film 500 years from now!

what's next? iron man > jesus?


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I found the film to be very hollow myself. Marvel Studios can, and has, done much better, so I find no reason to settle for less.

---
Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the antidote to shame.

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