Did anybody else find themselves angry at the end of ep 5 when the redcaps came for Joe? I found it hard to return to everyuday chat for a while, I was so upset by it. I don't normally find myself affected by TV fiction but it really hit me, feeling for the parents. As if the war wasn't bad enough, killing our youth like that was a national disgrace. The Great War must be the worst misnomer in history.
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There was an episode of Upstairs Downstairs where thingy absconded while on leave too. Naturally, being a COMbbc they didn't bother to let the viewer know that he's have been court-martialled in France for desertion not shell-shock. As it happend the "authorities" were far les callous about incapacity brought on by war service in those days because of fear of the alternatives. Unemployed, mental ex-mercenaries aren't worth the bother these days.
Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.
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I didn't watch it!
Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.
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Ooh-er, I meant the Village. ;O)
Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.
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Now I'm confused. ;O) I inferred what happened from Alfa's post and my usual contempt for COMbbc philistinism.
Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.
For those upset by it, it gets worse. Officers with shell shock typically were sent to a hospital in Scotland with a famous doctor who treated them to try to get them back to the lines. (See the fine book by Pat Barker "Regeneration" and the ensuing film with Jonathan Pryce for a primer on this system.)
There is also some great information on this in a Seigfried Sassoon biography on my home book shelf--he was a beneficiary of this Scottish cure himself. Not shot.
But the enlisted who deserted due to shell shock were executed.
Yeah, they were all in it together, ahem.
Also.....
There has been an interesting spoiler from the first episode in that we see Bert as the oldest man in Britain so we know he did not die in the Second World War! haha
I am looking forward though to the period of WWII to see Bert's involvement in that conflict. He'll be nearly 40 when it begins so I wonder if he serves? But if he marries very young, he could have a son die in that war....
A professor once said in a class about WWI that 1903 was the "perfect" year to be born: Too young for the Great War, too old for the Second WW. Bert probably was born though around 1900-1902 wasn't he?
And am wondering how being the brother of a man shot for desertion fares when the next war comes along...will this be a lifetime burden for him? Or buried in the past (though hard to do that if the show never leaves the village--ever.)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2394340/board/nest/213814091
See here.
Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.
Yes I felt shocked, saddened, angry, bereaved and disappointed that they had killed off my favourite character. It made me feel even worse to discover that this kind of disgraceful injustice happened many times over in the so-called "Great War".
I like several of the other actors in The Village; I think Maxine Peake has been absolutely stellar as the sweet, loving mother of Bert and Joe - but Joe was my favourite, being played by Nico Mirallegro (one of my all-time favourite actors).
Nico really inhabited the character of Joe and made his trauma very visceral and real. The tragic injustice of his execution felt like the ground being pulled out from under me, almost as if I was suddenly seeing it all through poor Grace Middleton's eyes; and I had lost a son, or a dear friend. I'm not sure I can take the continued harsh story of The Village without Joe's sweet face to brighten up all the darkness and tragedy. I will record episode 6 but might not watch it for a few weeks.
Please, BBC, think about the delicate sensibilities of the people who watch your costume dramas. I know there is no story to a happy story, but please offer us some crumb of comfort when you tell a tale of hardship or sadness. You should also surely know that it's extremely bad for the viewing ratings of a drama if you kill off a character who is attractive, loveable and popular with the viewers. Especially in a story that is full of tragedy, being set in war time.
Sara L. Russell, aka Pinky Andrexa, last of the Cyber Vixen Poets From Outer Space.
I'm pretty certain that in the First World War, you could only be executed for desertion when you were in the field, i.e. at the front or positioned near the front. Since Joe was on leave back in England, the court martial would not have been able to pass the death penalty.
shareI wish the writer had known that, and written the story differently, with a less shocking outcome at the end of episode 5. I would have written that Joe had a broken leg as well as shell shock, then he would have been going through trauma but would not have been disbelieved about being unwell.
I think some viewers would have been interested to see him come to terms with being a father, and perhaps even see Caro's baby before it was so cruelly taken away from her. There was also potential for an interesting love triangle between him, Caro and Martha but that was never developed properly.
We never found out what was really going on with Caro and her weird doctor. Abuse was hinted at, but nothing definite.
So although I loved the acting, the scenery and some of the warmer family scenes, I found myself often upset and disappointed with the overload of tragedy in the storylines.
Sara L. Russell, aka Pinky Andrexa, last of the Cyber Vixen Poets From Outer Space.
I think the weird doctor was hopeful that he would marry Caro and become part of a titled family. Fortunately Lady Clem,who had been so unsympathetically haughty before,realised what was going on and thwarted it by referring to Joe's baby,as well as ensuring that the father of her grandchild got an honourable mention for fighting in the war,despite being denied a place on the war memorial.
shareYou could be right there. I have watched some of the episodes a few times and caught some subtle sub-plots I missed before, surrounding Caro, her mother and that weird doctor.
I'm very glad that Joe got an honourable mention at the end. Such a wonderful character... I loved the way he was so protective of his little brother, and the kind, quiet way he always spoke to him.
I wonder whether Bert Middleton will be able to win Martha's heart in the next series. He did mention at the beginning of episode 1, that he was in love with her even when he was only 12, when he first saw her get off the bus.
There's a lot of scope for fan fiction on this show, and there's already a lot of fan art appearing on twitter, inspired by the the characters.
That's a sign of a drama that is, overall, very well-written and acted. The Village has done its job by making a huge impression on the viewers, even if some of it broke our hearts.
Sara L. Russell, aka Pinky Andrexa, last of the Cyber Vixen Poets From Outer Space.
You're correct.
Joe would have been returned to his regiment or imprisoned in th UK, not shot. He did not have shell shock, which was a physical reaction to a nearby exploded shell, frequently causing amnesia, deafness, loss of the ability to speak.
More than 90% of death sentences were commuted. This is in another thread. No one who deserted by failing to report back from home leave was shot. This caused some bad feeling in France. 306 Death sentences were carried out but they were all in France. if everyone who did what Joe did was executed, there would have been tens of thousands of executions.
Dear alfa, I had no idea that shell shock was defined as a physical reaction to bombardment. I need to gen up on the "official" differences between shell shock and combat stress, etc.
Those poor sods in the trenches. They were in hell, and no sympathy extended to them when the inevitable breakdown came.
Did this historical inaccuracy (Joe's execution) diminish your appreciation for the series, alfa?
Who knows where the time goes?
The Germans were far more dangerous to squaddies than the British army, 1,115,597:378. ;O)
Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.
Both my grandfathers signed up in 1914.
Both said, in rare truthful moments, that the war years were the best years of their lives. Both thought that The British Army won the war in the field in spite of the French and the Americans. Neither thanked Wilfred Owen and Sassoon for portraying them as cattle.
Young squeethie of this parish writes excellent articles on the British Campaign in Wikipedia. have a look at a few of those to get an idea of how the Army worked.
I've had to leave for a job in the South of France for a few weeks, so I haven't seen the last episode, but I was a bit annoyed. I don't think the punishment he described was very likely either.
~~~~~I've had to leave for a job in the South of France for a few weeks~~~~~
A sch.ite job but someone's got to do it. Say hello to Stephen Fry for us. ;O)
(51 since February....)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fromelles
Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.
if it's any consolation, it's bucketing down . . . And I've lost my favourite pair of reading glasses.
shareIn Junior High we had a teacher who fought in World War II and it was rumoured amongst the students that he suffered from "shell shock". What was really awful and cruel a few guys always thought it was hilarious to drop a heavy text book on floor with a resounding bang. Which in fact did effect this teacher, you could see his physical and emotional reaction immediately, leaving him very shaken.
It was sad as he was an excellent teacher and these guys had no comprehension of the harm they inflicted year after year.
It was one of the most powerful scenes I've ever seen, and I've watched a lot of period drama. I couldn't ever revisit it; it was terribly upsetting.
That aside, I'd like them to have kept Joe alive. There was scope for additional interesting scenes with Caro and Martha, I thought.
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Don't worry Vince, like most of the historical details in "The Village" it is nonsense.
They didn't shoot men for being late back from leave. There were tens of thousands of British deserters in WWI but only a couple of hundred were shot. This only happened if it was deemed desertion in the presence of the enemy, and even then most death sentences were commuted and never carried out.
No one was ever shot for overstaying leave in the UK.