MovieChat Forums > The Paradise (2013) Discussion > My thoughts

My thoughts

posted 12 years ago by Jenn25
16 replies | jump to latest

So I've just discovered this show and I am a sucker for costume dramas. I'm only half way through episode 5 here's my thoughts so far:

Moray isn't quite swoon worthy... I find the actor on the short side and his voice is a little peculiar. He's sort of quirky more than charismatic... but it's only early so I will continue to give him a chance. I remember seeing the actor in Black Death and found his ruggedly handsome in that film. I'm just not digging the mustache and haircut on him but I am being superficial I suppose.

Denise is wonderful! I'm loving the character and the actress as well. I'm assuming we're supposed to see a budding romance between her and Moray but so far I'm not detecting any sparks.

Katherine- sorry but I detest her. I find she has way too much screen time and I'm confused with the back and forth love affair between her and Moray. Not sure why she's supposed to be such a catch besides her wealth. Don't find her very pretty or charming.

Supporting cast: Clara plays a great bad girl, Audrey is awesome, Pauline is adorable. Also like Sam and Denise's uncle.

I just read that a second season will be coming out so I guess the show isn't following the book too closely. There seems to be many subplots happening per episode. I am very curious and Denise and Moray and when that romance will strike up.

[–] Liantasse 12 years ago

Great to see more people who are enjoying the show! :D

Personally I like Moray, he's not really my type but in the context I can see how someone so confident, successful and exotic-looking could break about any heart in sight.

Denise being so love-struck was a bit of a surprise for me too. I remember earlier in the show when she told Pauline 'I'm not in love with him, I want to BE him' - so, sort of more like a 'professional crush' :D And my hopes were always that she was gonna take her uncle's shop in hand and turn it into a good rival for The Paradise.

But I guess she warmed up to Moray more on a personal level because she could detect his vulnerability and also because he might be the only authority figure in her life that gives her the recognition she deserves. I think her love is a little bit childish but at the same time pure and seeking what is best for him.

Of course Katherine is so very far from that! She is indeed really annoying and I'm afraid doesn't improve in the following episodes (sorry for the spoiler!!). Basically she is a spoiled brat. Lately she has shown lots of insensitivity, which is all the more disappointing after her brief nice moments with Adler's orphan children. At the moment I can see hardly any redeeming features in her.

And you are perfectly right, she doesn't seem in any way too special, or pretty, or graceful. I think she has always been praised only because she was the daughter of a wealthy and influential man, otherwise no one would have looked at her twice.

Oh dear, all that sounds quite mean! ^^; What can I say, I would love to see her redeemed in some way but at the moment...

Denise is a darling and I'm always looking forward to her 'ideas'. I wish a better man than Moray would show up on a white charger and sweep her off her feet :)

I also like Arthur a lot and I think the young man playing him is doing a terrific job! :) I'm hoping we'll be hearing more about his mysterious mother.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...in this neighbourhood heroes are scarce, or simply not to be found.

[–] jeronavdg 12 years ago

You're so right about the mustache haha, he probably looks better without.

I'm getting the romantic vibe, but there is something off about it. The fact that he keeps calling her 'my little champion' is very very creepy, it gives off this fatherly kind of vibe while at the same time I can see he is attracted to her.
Also, I personally think the whole wife thing is getting anoying. There must be a reasons why he holds on to her so much and I want to know it.

At first I liked Katherine and thought her teasing was cute. But more and more every episode it just becomes clear wat a brat she is and I cannot possibly see Moray going through with the wedding.

[–] Jenn25 12 years ago

I'm happy to join The Paradise club! :)
So I finished episode 5 and I think I'm almost done of 6. Well some big things happened indeed! Finally some declaration of love from Denise- although I was quite shocked when she spilled all her feelings to Moray!! I really thought she'd be the type to hold that in. I thought maybe it would have been him saying it to her and then kissing her- but I see now that Moray is still unsure of his feelings. Anyway, I have to confess- the kiss was very swoon-worthy! I'm starting to feel that chemistry between them now and liking Moray a lot more. This was a huge turning point for the story.
Also- WAY TO GO DENISE!! I was so proud of that girl when she packed her stuff and left The Paradise. The moment when Moray came over to her at her uncle's shop was very intense- so happy she put him in his place about letting her say all those things to him and then kiss him. He really should have stopped her but I think we all know he's in love with her too. Plus he started it by asking her to call him John- a very intimate request.
The mystery behind the wife is sort of gothic...
Does this story feel a little like Jane Eyre to anyone? Denise and Moray are kindred spirits, the mystery about his wife... Moray putting off an engagement to another (sort of like Blanche Ingram)
Anyway, maybe it's just me but I'm feeling a little bit of Bronte.
Katherine is not improving at all- she is very unlikeable and manipulative. I really hope Moray doesn't go through with the wedding!
Can't wait to see what happens next!!

[–] sparky57 12 years ago

Thank goodness.Ive been reading around some of the discussions here and elsewhere and was wondering why I loved this show so much as opposed to everyone else. Things from acting, production, costumes...you name it, it has been bashed.Why I don't know.No different to any other show until it finds its feet.

From the beginning I haven't liked Moray and Denise scenario, whether I thought she was naive, maybe looked very young and immature. Well for me the show has hit its stride in episode 6 when all those adjacent thread need addressing.Thank goodness we will have a season 2.... And now I have changed my mind...she looked more mature and I now can see them as a couple.

Katherine I didn't mind from early on in the show....but now we see her true colours flying through...the final episode sure will be interesting when Denise returns to the Paradise.

I love the connection Moray has to his dead wife...it leaves it kind of mysterious and I like that in a show. Another mystery is Jonas.

Episode 7...wow, what an emotional scene.Now the question is do I believe him or not...I did during the scene, but the following day with Dudley, was like he washed is hands of those events, whether to save face or what?

Miss Audrey...love, love , love her....just me, it's her flamboyance,and the way she gave up her past love for her career....she has so many funny quotes.

Edmund love his relationship with his niece....then there is Sam and Pauline...that has to be the best pick up line ever...Sam's teeth.

Yes, I can really get my teeth stuck into this show...the interlocking threads...and all those quirks of the supporting characters.

[–] Whovian73 12 years ago

"The mystery behind the wife is sort of gothic...
Does this story feel a little like Jane Eyre to anyone? Denise and Moray are kindred spirits, the mystery about his wife... Moray putting off an engagement to another (sort of like Blanche Ingram)
Anyway, maybe it's just me but I'm feeling a little bit of Bronte. "

You're not alone in feeling this!
I also thought this whole story gives an echo of Jane Eyre. More so if you read the book, where the Moray character (he's Mouret in Zola's book)is pining away in his love and desire for Denise who is stubbornly refusing his attentions, since he will not marry her, only have her. Just like Jane, she is very virtuous and firm in her beliefs. And Mouret is this womanizer who has seen it all, done it all, but in the end he is properly humbled (and saved) by Denise as he finally agrees to marry her. Just like Rochester...
I think it was this that caught my attention and drew me in and now I'm definitely smitten :)

[–] Jenn25 12 years ago

You're not alone in feeling this!
I also thought this whole story gives an echo of Jane Eyre. More so if you read the book, where the Moray character (he's Mouret in Zola's book)is pining away in his love and desire for Denise who is stubbornly refusing his attentions, since he will not marry her, only have her. Just like Jane, she is very virtuous and firm in her beliefs. And Mouret is this womanizer who has seen it all, done it all, but in the end he is properly humbled (and saved) by Denise as he finally agrees to marry her. Just like Rochester...
I think it was this that caught my attention and drew me in and now I'm definitely smitten :)

Hey Johnno1! Glad to hear I'm not the only one getting the Jane Eyre vibe (one of my all time favorite stories!). It really does have that feel to it... the way Denise is "the help" and Moray is her superior- but they seem to be kindred in spirit. Audrey could even be a little bit like Mrs Fairfax. Perhaps Zola was inspired by Bronte!

Also, totally agree that it seemed a little out of character for Denise to throw herself at Moray... I really thought it would be the other way around- although I hadn't read the book. Good to know that didn't actually happen in the novel. I suppose the writers wanted to show the difference between Denise the young girl- to Denise the confidant young woman- as she has transitioned into. Moray sees the as well "You are no longer 'My Little Champion'"...

[–] Whovian73 12 years ago

I just forgot to say that I'm also happy to join The Paradise Club!

I just have to ask if it's just me, but I can't help feeling a bit disappointed they made Denise declare her love for Moray and even kiss him. In doing this, they put Moray in the superior position - he is now the one with the power to call the shots.

That's what I liked about the book - that he was so in love with Denise without knowing if his feelings were reciprocated. This way she held such power over him, something I quite liked.

Although, I have to say I didn't mind that scene between them. It was so intimate with him asking her to call him John and then being so eager to kiss her back. That was such a passionate moment.

Maybe it's me who's confused :)

[–] lederniermetro 12 years ago

More so if you read the book, where the Moray character (he's Mouret in Zola's book)is pining away in his love and desire for Denise who is stubbornly refusing his attentions, since he will not marry her, only have her

She refuses his attentions more because she is affraid of love don't want to get hurt than because he refuse to marry her IMO.

In love! You know, dizzy and feverish and nausea.
That's not love, Jacks. That's the flu.

[–] coney_island_baby 12 years ago

I have an odd relationship with this show. I watch every week, and I enjoy most of it, but I am aware that it's not really very *good* I think it's a bit of a guilty pleasure really. It's so attractive to look at I can't help myself.

I don't really like any of the characters--I think Denise is a bit boring, though I quite like Clara just because she takes so much pleasure in being bad. Pauline is basically the exact same character the actress played in Larkrise to Candleford, which is a bit strange.

I can't bear Mr Moray--why does everyone fancy him?! His 'romance' with Denise is a massive let down as he and Denise have absolutely no chemistry and her admission of love seemed to come from out of the blue!

As for Catherine... I don't really 'get' her character. One minute she's got depth and a sadness about her, the next she's a shallow brat. I'm quite fond of the actress, so I think it's a bit sad to see her in such a poorly written role.

I sound like I hate this show, but honestly, I don't! I watch with fascination every week, just don't tell anyone :P

[–] Whovian73 12 years ago

I had the distinct impression when I read the book, that she doesn't want to give herself to Mouret because he is only interested in having an affair with her. She comes across as a young woman who is very much aware of her position - if she were to say yes to Mouret, she would be a "fallen woman". She is very virtuous and very much aware of how she will be scorned by society should she give in. She is also terrified at the thought of Mouret believing in the rumours being spread by the other shop assistants, that her two brothers are her lover and her child. She desperately wants to make this fact absolutely clear: that they are her brothers, that no shadow is cast upon her character.

It may be that she is also a bit afraid, after all, she is a very inexperienced young woman. She has been in love before, but never felt this very strong attraction before.

[–] lederniermetro 12 years ago

Since her death Mouret remembered her with affection, and he was grateful to her memory for the fortune she had showered on him when she married him. And so, before setting about signing the bills which had been placed on his blotter, he gave the portrait the smile of a happy man. After all, when his escapades as a young widower were over , when he left the bedchambers where he was led astray by the need of pleasure, didn't he always come back to work in her presence

Is it not the opposite at the grieving sad widower who as slip only once after the 'mysterious' death of his wife.
Nothing romantic here Zola is a Naturalist writer not a romantic one.

In love! You know, dizzy and feverish and nausea.
That's not love, Jacks. That's the flu.

[–] Whovian73 12 years ago

"Since her death Mouret remembered her with affection, and he was grateful to her memory for the fortune she had showered on him when she married him. And so, before setting about signing the bills which had been placed on his blotter, he gave the portrait the smile of a happy man. After all, when his escapades as a young widower were over , when he left the bedchambers where he was led astray by the need of pleasure, didn't he always come back to work in her presence"

"Is it not the opposite at the grieving sad widower who as slip only once after the 'mysterious' death of his wife.
Nothing romantic here Zola is a Naturalist writer not a romantic one."

It is indeed quite the opposite. Nothing romantic about it at all.
And it is a perfect example of the different rules for men and women; for men it was perfectly in order to seek pleasure from women. No need to disguise this if you are a naturalist writer, as this is what society was like in the second half of the 19th century.

[–] lederniermetro 12 years ago

And it is a perfect example of the different rules for men and women; for men it was perfectly in order to seek pleasure from women. No need to disguise this if you are a naturalist writer, as this is what society was like in the second half of the 19th century.

But apparently you need to disguise that if you are a TV writer from the 21th century...

In love! You know, dizzy and feverish and nausea.
That's not love, Jacks. That's the flu.

[–] Whovian73 12 years ago

"And it is a perfect example of the different rules for men and women; for men it was perfectly in order to seek pleasure from women. No need to disguise this if you are a naturalist writer, as this is what society was like in the second half of the 19th century."

"But apparently you need to disguise that if you are a TV writer from the 21th century... "

Well, yes of course. Plus, you make the female protagonist entirely 21st century. That is a good move, though. Denise in the series is easier to identify with, I think. A bit of girl power there!

[–] lederniermetro 12 years ago

Plus, you make the female protagonist entirely 21st century. That is a good move, though. Denise in the series is easier to identify with, I think. A bit of girl power there!

It is not a good move IMO because I hoped for a faithfull adaptation.
It is like watching a version of Pride and Prejudice in wich Mr Darcy would be a womaniser and in wich Elizabeth Bennet would be a single child who asks him to marry her...

In love! You know, dizzy and feverish and nausea.
That's not love, Jacks. That's the flu.

[–] jeronavdg 12 years ago

I haven't read the book but I think it's an interesting discussion.

I like denise's character very much, especially the girl power no matter if it isn't realistic. I do usually go with the romantic scenario's that we get presented with when it comes to period drama's, but it many ways it's actually a little disturbing.
Take Jane Eyre for example, if you were to translate that to contemporary settings as is, a lot of it just wouldn't work. Personally I think I'd find the overpowering employer paired with his 18year old employee a little creepy.