MovieChat Forums > Enough Said (2013) Discussion > Eva's sense of entitlement

Eva's sense of entitlement

posted 11 years ago by PacificHeights
62 replies | jump to latest

I enjoyed the movie and thought both major characters did a fine job. There was one theme that bothered me a bit for a movie made in 2013.

Eva expected her customer to take her message table up the stairs for her. Why? There is no reason for the service provider to expect the customer to help with her equipment. If he offers to do it, that is one thing, he is being helpful. But, to expect it exhibits entitlement that reeks of hypocracy.

Eva is not physically handicapped. She is a business woman providing a service to paying customers. Is Eva equal or is she not?

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[–] ckanelevy 11 years ago

She just thought it would be decent if he offered. The "punch line" of the joke though, was once she asked, he was only too happy to do it and he even criticized himself for not offering before. The lesson she learned was: don't be shy about asking for help. Honestly - this part didn't bother me at all. My bigger problem was that it would have taken an awful lot of unspoken conversations for the 3 main characters not to have found out the "twist" well before they actually did. In that way, the movie reminded me a lot of Steve Carell's Crazy Stupid Love (or whatever it was called), where the twist of the movie also depended on lots of things to not happen.

Other criticisms I had were that Julia Dreyfus basically plays Elaine in everything, and James Gandolfini (while not Tony Soprano here) looked and sounded like there was something wrong. He gained a lot of weight since his Soprano days (and he certainly was no slimjim there). I have to believe that his obesity was the major cause of his death, which I was saddened by.

The movie was good but hardly great. As far as romantic comedies go, it was certainly no When Harry Met Sally.

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[–] phillyboots 11 years ago

it was certainly no When Harry Met Sally.

Totally different story, because totally different stage of life. Should not be compared with that movie at all.


May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] cinemaamore 10 years ago

No when harry met sally was better than this for sure. something about these people and their lives was depressing. when harry met sally isn't depressing.

I will hold the Christ light for you. One Bread, One Body

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[–] delmoki 10 years ago

I'm sorry the movie depressed you. But saying that their lives were "depressing" is a matter of your opinion and nothing more. Maybe you should be more careful about what movies you go to see. I didn't find their lives depressing at all.

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[–] paulfitzpa 10 years ago

Depressing? To me it felt more like real life. In real life people have ups and downs.

When Harry met sally is fantasy. This film, for all of it's faults, is a lot more realistic especially when it comes to older people forging new relationships. They are often wary, scared, scarred and vulnerable.

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[–] blakkdog 9 years ago

But "realistic" can be depressing. I can see where that comment came from frankly. Pretty much all the adults in this film are shown as flawed and unhappy about certain aspects of their lives. Maybe thats what you call realistic but I couldnt help feeling like Eva wasnt happy with her job, with he past choices, with her child moving away, just generally with her lot in life. I think that came through in her character the whole time purposefully. She smiles and makes nice but theres a clear jaded sadness behind her eyes. It wasnt until the end when we see that she clearly and genuinely wants Albert in her life and isnt actually in doubt because of what his ex wife had been feeding her. That was the best feeling in the movie for me. The rest of her life (and the lives of her friends and her daughters friend) seem to be weaved with regret in many ways. Or disaffection. That was a downer to me too (although honestly Im not sure I would call it "depressing"). I did get more of a vibe about this from all the female characters then from the male characters who seemed either a little more satisfied with themselves (Albert, her ex husband) or in denial (her friends husband). This movie had a lot of Woody Allen style ennui going on, especially from the JLD. And I think thats reflected in some people's interpretation that its a downer.

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[–] delmoki 10 years ago

You really can't say for certain that his weight had anything to do with his death from a heart attack. Skinny people die of heart attacks every day.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Almost nothing can be said for certain.

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[–] kcolli11 9 years ago

"I have to believe that his obesity was the major cause of his death."

That was ugly and completely unnecessary since, I can assume, you were not James Gandolfini's physician.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

He does have excellent reason to believe so though.

First thing I thought when I saw his death in Wikipedia was that he must have died from his weight. Clicked on his name and yup. Died from a heart attack.

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[–] phillyboots 11 years ago

To PacificHeights

IMHO. Some things are just right to do. Her lugging that table up those steps near provoked me to walk up to the screen to help her. Once she asked for his help, they showed the light bulb going off in his head and his attitude was completely "of course" as he ran down to help her. If i were in the same situation and it was a woman (or a man) struggling as she did, providing I was physically capable, i would help. This is in 2013, 1963, or even 2063.

She never expected, but knew in would it was the right thing to to. Not a matter of equality, its a matter of humanity. This is in 2013, 1963, or hopefully even in the distant future.

Your post seems harsh to me.

May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] PacificHeights 11 years ago

I would hope that any able-bodied person would help an elderly person, a child, or a person with physical limitations. But for Eva to expect him to help her just because she is a woman and he is the man is an entitlement expectation plain and simple. He was the person receiving a service that he paid for. She was the service provider receiving payment.

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[–] phillyboots 11 years ago

because she is a woman and he is the man
... that's not the issue



May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] PacificHeights 11 years ago

I'm not trying to be a jerk or an a**hole, but it is the issue.

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[–] phillyboots 11 years ago

You say she expected, I say she thought it would be better if....

Sorry, I can't help that this is a big issue with you. I will remain with my feelings, you with yours. Hope it didn't ruin the movie for you. Have a good day.


May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] cinemaamore 10 years ago

A gentleman would not see it that way....

I will hold the Christ light for you. One Bread, One Body

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

I wouldn't, not when I am paying for it.

If I was that client and she asked in that final scene, I would help her. And then afterwards have a conversation with her.

If that is her expectation, then if I can find an alternative service provider at the same price, I would fire her once I do so.

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[–] phillyboots 8 years ago

You've not considered the value of her service to him. Perhaps he needs to billed a higher rate due to the inconvenience of his location. The time she takes up the steps should also be deducted from the time of the service. His assisting her gets him started sooner. I consider his assistance a non-monitory rate adjustment.

Hopefully he learned some humanity from her. He might be the kind of guy who likes to be asked and was more than happy to do so.

Or, he could heed your advice, and find someone new, with whom he might not be as pleased or as comfortable.

May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Sure, and if he doesn't like the new guy, then too bad. That is life.

I would certainly be willing to pay more due to the inconvenience if this is justified by the local norms. I would also look around and try out the new guy first to confirm, before firing her.

But firing her would definitively be on my mind the moment she made the request. It would only be primarily a matter of time and feasibility.




This is roughly equivalent to asking the patrons to clear their trays. This is a campaign that the government and businesses are trying to push in my country. And I absolutely refuse to comply (except at government subsidised facilities such as hospitals and schools, and non-profits). I am paying you cash at full-market rates, I am a customer. Aren't doing your *beep* for you.

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[–] phillyboots 8 years ago

I adjust my behavior by the situation. I'm also not so upset about a film.

I've lived long and happy that way. I can't argue about your tolerance or lack of.

Be well. Bye.

May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Sure. Just understand that plenty of customers don't accept poor service. That is all.

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[–] phillyboots 8 years ago

No, what I just understand is that the service in this case is the massage, not grunt work. I suspect she's quite good, and I'd prefer a massage from a woman not worn out from lugging furniture.

There's no need for you to tell me what to understand. I do fine. My ego is in check.

May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Hence, I am correcting you regarding your understanding. The service includes delivery of associated equipment.

You are certainly entitled to help your service provider out of the kindness of your heart, as you indicated. But many / most? customers are not as kind. I am certainly not.

In any case, I thought you are walking away from this argument?

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[–] phillyboots 8 years ago

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

So, not just being a gutless coward, but a liar to boot?

I can accept you being too afraid to stand up to me, but saying that you are going to run away and not running away? Not balls and no honesty. Sigh. So sad...

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[–] phillyboots 8 years ago

I can accept you being too afraid to stand up to me
Yep, I fear you might rough me up. There is zero bravery in trying to force your will on a website on an old thread. What a "tough guy" you must fancy yourself.
saying that you are going to run away and not running away?
Do you really have so few successes in life that you feel you need to have a "victory" on a movie board? Grow up.
Not balls and no honesty. Sigh. So sad..
So I backed off, and the scared little bully that hides in you kicks me. Now that's sadness. Get a life.

So now here's my response to your previous post...
But many / most? customers are not as kind.
You must be a child (mentally, if not chronologically) to speak for "many/most" people. It's that kind of ignorance that, no doubt, has screwed you up in real life. I seriously doubt you've ever been in a position to fire anyone, let along contract any service other than to buy fast food with your allowance.

The best I can do is wish you maturity. You're welcome, by the way, for giving you a purpose in life the last few days by giving you attention. Try to find a real purpose. BtW, you win (hooray you!) because you got me p!ssed enough to sink to your level of pettiness. You're much better at name calling and projecting ignorance than I can ever be.

May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Sure, it is not a big deal. I fully agree with you on it. But when I own somebody on the internet, I like to rub it in their faces. Just a personal preference.

You can hardly take the moral high ground after pretending you are too high-minded to get into petty arguments and then choosing to continue with said petty argument. And yes, I indeed won by exposing your hypocrisy. Shame on you for sinking to my level of pettiness, especially when you (falsely) claimed the moral high ground. You are despicable.

What? Saying that many customers are demanding and unforgiving is controversial? Lol.

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[–] phillyboots 8 years ago

Thank you for validating my prior post about you. Seems I read you, spot on.


May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Ah, the hypocrisy... Claiming to be too noble to get into a petty argument, and yet persisting still.

Guess you really can't take me rubbing your stupidity in your face, huh? Guess I read you spot on then, O hypocrite?

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[–] phillyboots 8 years ago

Claiming to be too noble
I never claimed nobility at all. Guess you need to say that to validate your story.
to get into a petty argument
I only need petty for you.
I read you spot on then
Now where have I heard that phrase before?



May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

I can't argue about your tolerance or lack of ... Be well. Bye ... I backed off ... The best I can do is wish you maturity ... [for you] to find a real purpose
Like I said, gutless coward. Wants to pretend that you don't care about a stupid internet argument, that you are too "mature" for this type of thing. And yet persisting in it. Lol. Hypocrite.



Not to mention failing to understand how customers are in real life.

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[–] phillyboots 8 years ago

Not to mention failing to understand how customers are in real life.
You're addressing a man who has more Fortune 500 customers than you'd ever be able to name. I've done sales on every level. I've also taught sales. But I can't educate stupid.
Like I said, gutless coward.
Funny guy. Brave children on internet posts has been proven to correlate to cowards in real life. Big tough guy.

I'll just now treat you like the child you are. Put you in the corner. Difference is I'll leave you there. You ain't my rude kid, just a disappointment to whomever your parents are. I'm sure you're not so ignorant to anyone's face.

you're ignored. I know you'll call me a coward, I call it peace of mind. You're not important enough anyone to be afraid of.


May you receive all that Karma has to offer.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Exactly. For you are indeed the coward. Makes sense that I would call you out for who you are, no?

What a hypocrite. Claiming that you are above petty internet arguments, persisting, getting owned by me yet again, and now running away once more. Lol, little boy. If you wanted "peace of mind", you should have left the first time you claimed to.

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[–] pullman1881 11 years ago

I don't think she expected him to carry the table. She did not feel entitled. She was continually surprised that he stood there, watching her obvious struggle up the steep steps, and it never occurred to him to help her.

It has nothing to do with her being able-bodied or a woman. It would have been polite for him to offer to help her. I assume you're male. If you were struggling to carry something heavy or clumsy or to open a door for whatever reason, I as a female would assist you because it's polite and a kindness I would want to perform.

Using your logic, as you're struggling, I'm supposed to just stand there and not offer assistance because you are capable of doing it yourself. That is not kindness.

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[–] Thread_Killer_of_IMDb 11 years ago

The client was getting therapeutic massages and may have been physically unable to help-- or so I thought until he finally helped her out.

Some situations are ambiguous because men are unaware of just how much a woman wants our help. Fear of offending a fiercely independent woman can keep men from acting in come situations. I usually say that "chivalry isn't dead" or that I'm old school and open doors/pull out chairs and whatnot.

Thread_Killer_of_IMDb is out there. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until your post is dead.

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[–] onerichard 11 years ago

Some men are afraid to offer to help a woman, in this professional situation, because she could find it insulting.

I am a firefighter. I once offered to carry a large bag of firefighter gear for one of the Chiefs of the department. SHE didn't appreciate it, and annoyingly declined.

maybe it's not quite the same, but I'd give the guy a break...the guy may have not wanted to offend her by offering to carry HER professional equipment.

I tore my ACL 10 years ago. a medical professional lady brought a large piece of equipment designed to flex my knee while rehabbing at home.

I hobbled to the door when she arrived, and offered to carry said piece of equipment...and she also declined.

I may not have offered the first time...but after that... yes, I would have told her to leave the table at the bottom of the stairs and come up and ring the bell when she got there, and I would have gone down and got the table for her.

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[–] Ambrosia-I 11 years ago

onerichard, you sound a very kind person so I hope you will carry on offering to help even at the risk of (a hopefully polite) refusal. I imagine the Chief was aware of being a woman in a male-dominated profession. She might have felt that she had to appear as physically strong as everybody else.

The medical professional lady might have been aware that you helping her could well have made your knee a lot worse and didn't want for you to put yourself at risk.

Speaking personally, when I've been on holiday and struggling up steps with a heavy suitcase, people have invariably offered to help and I always accept with immense gratitude. I think it's a thoughtful and decent thing for them to do. Mind you, some guy offered to carry my shopping when I was in the city centre yesterday and I declined because how long was he going to carry it for? I understand and completely appreciate a finite offer of help, but was this chap going to go round the supermarket with me, go into a gift shop while I bought a birthday present, catch the bus with me, take the 40-minute journey and then carry my bags the 10-minute walk home? I don't think he'd thought it through!

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[–] Ambrosia-I 11 years ago

pullman1881, I agree that it would have been kind and thoughtful for the young man to offer to help her carry her table up the stairs, but then I did feel that Eva had a a bit of a martyr syndrome going on. I couldn't understand why she didn't just ask him to give her a hand. I'm a woman and, if I was struggling with something and I knew a man (or woman) was physically able, I'd just ask. I do that all the time at work - if something's too heavy or too awkward for me to move, I don't feel the need to be a martyr about it.

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[–] pullman1881 11 years ago

Absolutely agree with you. I'm a big believer in asking for what you want. But it gets a little complicated sometimes: "I am woman, I can take care of myself!" vs. "I need/want help".

But I do agree that if she wanted help she should have asked for it, and didn't think about it when I saw the movie, but there was a little of the martyr syndrome there.

Ciao!

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[–] jabell 11 years ago

How do we know he's the client? It might be his mother or father, who is inside the home. He certainly seemed able bodied enough and at least 10 years younger than she.

I agree with everyone who said it would have been polite and courteous for him to offer to carry the table up the steps when he saw how she was struggling.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

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[–] cinemaamore 10 years ago

10 years younger? he looked 20 years younger

I will hold the Christ light for you. One Bread, One Body

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[–] queenoftheuniverse1 9 years ago

I am pretty sure she referred to him as her client when she was complaining to Toni Colette's character about him not helping her. Also, that was the only time I saw him actually observe her struggling with the table. The first time it showed her mounting the steps, he was not waiting at the top of the steps for her.

Speaking from experience as a massage patient/client, my massage therapists would not WANT me to help them because it is part of their job as the caregiver to take care of the patient/client (and many of us as massage patients/clients ARE in poor physical condition even if our outward appearance may belie that and should not be lifting or carrying something such as a massage table for the person who is supposed to be performing the massage on us -- that is why we are getting the massages because we have physical problems or injuries the massage therapist is trying to help correct or relieve).

I was once considering getting into massage therapy myself after many years of receiving therapeutic massages and I would never have expected a patient/client to help me with my equipment. When you are performing a service, and particularly a massage that is often a medical necessity, you should be prepared physically to perform whatever is necessary for the patient, otherwise you should not be in that line of work. It is not about being polite and courteous at all.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Because the client might fire her. I certainly would, if that was her expectation and I could find a replacement. I am the client, my role is to pay you, not help you. You help me.

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[–] archer1267 10 years ago

Amen to this. Last summer I took a nasty tumble outside of Target. What bugged me most was not the fall, but that no one thought to ask me if I was okay, even as they walked by me. Would that make me "entitled?" I hope not.

Some things have nothing to do with gender at all, but common courtesy that affects us all as human beings.

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[–] pullman1881 10 years ago

Wow! Assume you were okay after the fall, but no one helped? I know we're suffering a dearth of courtesy these days, but that's awful! I guess they were too busy talking on their phones to notice an actual human being. Geez!

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

You are not supposed to render medical assistance as a bystander in the United States.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Yes, when you are paying for it.

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[–] lubin-freddy 10 years ago

Just like her girlfriend's husband said at the dinner party, when he asked her if she ever asked him. She was far from a perfect person, but that's pretty much the idea of a film where all the characters are decent people, with flaws.

Listen to the river sing sweet songs
to rock my soul

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[–] darwin554 10 years ago

This is a pretty pointless thread. It is just common decency that any man should extend to a woman who is doing manual labour that you try to go out of your way to help.

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[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Then I must never hire a woman to do manual labour then. Since I must do it for her instead.

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[–] quaasheezy 10 years ago

it's so funny there's a thread on this. i had the same feeling watching the film. it takes a special kind of entitled mindset to believe a paying customer should do your job for you.



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[–] rudykawa 10 years ago

Women always expects the men to do or at least offer to do everything.
And after complain if he did offer ("you're suffocating me") or not ("he is not a gentleman").

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[–] wowista 10 years ago

Are you arguing the point that men are physically stronger than women?

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[–] 10 years ago

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