MovieChat Forums > He Never Died (2015) Discussion > Does Jack actually know who he is?

Does Jack actually know who he is?

posted 8 years ago by nerowolfgal
12 replies | jump to latest

After watching the movie and reading this board with people arguing whether Jack is Cain or a fallen angel, or somehow both, it occurred to me that perhaps even Jack does not know.

Remember he is thousands of years old. He is definitely traumatized by the weight of his memories. Remember, without feeding on blood, he is literally almost deafened by the constant soundtrack of his memories. He does heal from being shot, stabbed, Maced, and drowned, but he seems to feel the pain of all his injuries.

Watch him walk, I have an elderly neighbour who was in a very bad car accident years ago, and it hit me that it was exactly the same tentative, stiff walk. Yet, Jack CAN move blinding fast and smooth. It seems if the stiff walk was more a mental response to all the years and pain he has endured than the actual state of his body. Pain, love, loss, endless change, all of life's experience century after century maybe just overwhelming.

Could it be that, after THOUSANDS of years, Jack can't actually remember who he is, that he has internalized the stories and myths that he has come across to explain himself to himself?

There IS definitely something supernatural going on. After all, Jack can't die, or even permanently be injured. The Man in Black who watches him, and apparently has done so for at least centuries, is supernatural. But perhaps Jack himself does not even know who the Man is?

[–] philoj 8 years ago

He specifically says in the movie he is Cain, and he says it with certainty. I'm pretty sure there wasn't meant to be any ambiguity there at all.

--
Philo's Law: To learn from your mistakes, you have to realize you're making mistakes.

[–] cableaddict 8 years ago

When does he say that?

I've watched it twice and didn't hear this.

[–] pastorjwallen 8 years ago

It's in the scene after the mafia hit in the diner, when he asks Cara to give him a ride. He then offers her a million dollars to help him. They go back to his apartment, while he's there interrogating one of the goons, she looks in the chest he has, and sees the money. Then she sees the photo of him in WWI back in 1917. That's when she asks. He pronounces "Cain" differently, but it's definitely Cain.

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-= J =-

[–] nerowolfgal 8 years ago

He says he is Cain, but he has the scars on his back that look like wings were cut off, and the movie poster pictured him with wings. But to support that he is Cain, remember him checking out his daughter's back to see if she had the scars, ie the "Mark of Cain".

And again in support of him being Cain, remember the mob boss? Jack says "he's a murdered, and KNOWS he is a murderer" but then does NOT kill him because Jack puts love and compassion before his lust to kill. Is that why the Man was smiling, and is that why he speaks to the mob boss? Has Jack finally served him time as a damned creature?

[–] pger 8 years ago

Jack also refers to killing Abel, Cains' brother in the bible, in that last scene in the bar/club whatever when talking to the man with the goatee.

[–] philoj 8 years ago

For those confused by this, just as he pronounces Cain as "Cahyen," he says "Hachmel" when referring to Abel. I've dug around a bit and can't see what language they're supposed to be, but I think it's supposed to be Akkadian or some similar ancient language.

--
Philo's Law: To learn from your mistakes, you have to realize you're making mistakes.

[–] mikebos 8 years ago

Cain is believed to have been a fallen angel by some. Hence his inability to die.

[–] edfor 8 years ago

He's cain. He says so, he also explains about murdering his brother. It's all heavily implied.

I guess some say Cain was a fallen angel. I'm atheist, never been to church, never read the bible, so I have no idea about the original story, but I watch enough TV/film to have seen Cain in various incarnations and from what I know, they were both human, one murdered his brother and became the father of murder.

There was no angel thing.

However, because I have a strong suspicion this screenwriter is a Supernatural fan, I'm going to say he's a fan of angels and maybe added that rare spin to the movie.

Supernatural not only loves their angels, their Cain/Abel mythology, but also their God-hating plots about him being an absentee-father and just a jerk-off.

This movie had a lot of that same subtext.

[–] agentorange631 8 years ago

He does say that he's Cain but the way he does so makes it sound like even Cain is just another persona of his, as if he's even older than that. He says "I'm in the bible, if that helps" to give Cara an idea of how old he is and it seems like he says this because that's the oldest text that people are commonly familiar with even though the Torah is older.

I agree though that he likely forgot who he truly was before it all began.

As for the man in the fedora and shades, I think that's death which is why Jack can't hurt him and why he appears to Alex after Jack leaves (since Alex is close to dying already).

[–] Rachel1977 8 years ago

He is Cain, Abel's brother. I believe he was given immortality for punishment of the first murder.

[–] dialtfortrouble 8 years ago

I believe his immortality is punishment for killing and thus being the first murderer.

He even says to "fedora man" Why do you do this to me, do you think murder would never have existed if I had not killed habal (Abel).

He knows who he is.

[–] CrazyToaster 8 years ago

Yep, he is definitely Cain from The Bible.

When he confronts The Man at the bar, he asks "do you think murder wouldn't exist if I didn't kill that little @#$%?!" Cain was cursed to wander the land for eternity as punishment for his sins, hence the line "I like to walk."

As for not know who is father is, that's actually a pretty interesting plot point. In some Jewish interpretations, Adam is not Cains father. Eve is said to have committed adultery a fallen angel. In another text, "Hypostasis of the Archons" Eve is raped by a group of Archons. As a result of this, she falls pregnant with Cain. Therefore Cain would be half human and half angel.

There is an extracanonical text called "The Life of Adam and Eve." At one point, Adam leaves Eve so he can go and pray for forgiveness in solitude. If Eve bore Cain while he was away (it's been awhile, but I am pretty sure he was gone long enough for Eve to father a child), then it would make sense that Jack doesn't know if he even had a father.

"I would give my life to be dead" Francesco Dellamorte