MovieChat Forums > No Time to Die (2020) Discussion > Can someone progressive please explain s...

Can someone progressive please explain something to me:


Why is it controversial when a non-white character is played by someone of a different ethnicity (ie. Naomi Scott in Aladdin or the characters in Shamalyan's Last Airbender, whitewashing???) yet it's OK for a white character to be played by someone of a different ethnicity (certain people have been calling for a Black Bond for years despite the fact that the literary character is White)?

What's the rule? Do the characters and actors have to be the same race or don't they? Or does this rule only apply to certain ethnicities (hypocritical)?

Just to be straight I don't really care that much about race, I didn't care that Moneypenny is now black (she did a great job), I didn't care that Harvey Dent was black in Tim Burton's Batman, what I don't like is that it's controversial going one way yet progressive and inspirational the other way. I personally wouldn't care if Bond himself were black as long as he played the part consistently with the source material, he at least sounded British (Lazenby was Australian) because Bond is by definition British, and that he truly was the best choice for the role (I don't want a black actor to play Bond just so we can say we had a black Bond).

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Characters and actors don't have to be the same race, unless it is an actual, real life person or their race is an integral part of the story. That is my view, but different people have different opinions on this.

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I see and that makes sense but the thing is Naomi Scott was attacked for not being Arab yet Jasmine being played by an Arab actress wasn't integral to the story, heck Agrabah isn't even a real place. It just seems like a double standard yet there may be something that I'm just not getting here.

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Personally, I had no objection to Naomi Scott playing Jasmine and I thought she did a great job.

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Right, I never saw the movie but she seemed to look the part which was fine with me, but the SJW's had a problem when she was announced as the actress for the role.

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Considering that the original "Aladdin" story was actually set in a fanciful fictionalized version of China, the movie didn't get anything right.

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Apparently Asian people are not protected under SJW law so I guess it's OK to replace them with different ethnicities.

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So you've clearly never seen On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Bond's ancestry is a fundamental part of the plot of that film. So yeah, his race and heritage are actually pretty important. How would an Idris Elba Bond or a woman for that matter be able to explain their connection to Bond's family crest and motto? Oh, let me guess, you don't even know what his family motto is, but you're here sharing your uninformed opinion anyway.

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I've seen all the Bond movies. There is no need to have Bond explain his connection to the family crest or motto. There is no reason why James Bond couldn't be played by a black man.

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James Bond is not a codename. His identity is already established as I just pointed out. A non-white male absolutely cannot play the role. Having a blonde beta male who looks like a gay German giggalo play the role is already too much of a stretch.

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There is no valid reason why Bond can't be played by a black man.

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Do you know what Bond's background is? If you did, then you would realize you really can't.

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Exactly, it has been firmly established that James Bond is his real name (not a codename) and he is a white, British male. I could never play James Bond either because I am American and I am not pitching a fit about it. Just make another franchise about a black secret agent and let it stand on its own. If they do a good job with it I'm sure more people will go to see it as opposed to the latest James Bond movie, I mean Quantum of Solace didn't do well at all because that movie sucked.

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Have you read the original books Allaby?

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Gotta remember the hard fast rule.

Race and culture matter to the story when the character is black so cannot be played by a white actor.

Race and culture can be chopped and changed when the it is european culture and can be played by anyone.

It is ridiculous but I thought everybody knew the new rules.

I posted this further down, completely forgot about the family crest and motto so you can add that to this as well. People who think his race and history can be changed haven't got a clue about James Bond.
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"Scotlands Black population right now not including asian is 1%.

Overall black population in United Kingdom is 3%

Scotland has a 97% white population.

In 1950 there woud have been about 20k black population out of 50 million.

If we say his age is 40 then he was born in 1910 which guarentees he was white.

He went to Eton ( exclusive private school, no chance of that if you were black, not in the early 1900's

He joined the Navy and rose to the rank of Commander, when he joined it would have been the 2nd World War, there wouldn't have been any black Naval Officers.

Bond is said to resemble Hoagy Carmichael who was no surprise white.

So to say his heritage and history can be chopped and changed is an insult to Ian fleming.

James Bond is of Anglo Scottih Hertigate. His Father is Scottish, his mother is Swiss, both white. Written by a white author descrbing him as white. He is the apoitimy of British aristocracy, sheek and style. This is shown in his choice of drinks, his fashion, the way he speaks and presents himself.

Bonds heritage is very important because he is white, this fact cannot be changed, it is in the books, it is in the films."

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I disagree. When adapting a book to film, all that really matters is that the end result be a great film. Anything is fair game for change. The first example that comes to mind is Die Hard. I think that is a fantastic film, perhaps the best action film of all time. Yet, it differs so significantly from the book upon which it is based that by your reasoning it should never have been filmed.

I do think one can make the case that in an adaptation, as long as certain core elements are kept in place, everything else is up to the filmmaker. So in the case of Bond, his being Scottish, his education at Eton, his ancestry, family crest, motto, height, hair color, and so forth are utterly immaterial. No one but the most pedantic autist cares. What DOES matter is that he is intelligent, handsome, athletic, ruthless, stylish, a British spy, and likely a few other things. If the particulars of his backstory are reworked, it affects nothing substantial to the story. Audiences go to a James Bond movie to see a British spy drink martinis, seduce women, drive a fast car, use a variety of gadgets to escape death, and eventually defeat a masterful villain who is hellbent on word destruction. Whether his ancestors lived in Scotland, Japan, or West Africa has no bearing on any of that.

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So you wouldn't mind if a white American was cast as James Bond?

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Recall my list of Bond's core characteristics: intelligent, handsome, athletic, ruthless, stylish, a British spy, and likely a few other things. As long as the actor can speak with a convincing British accent I don't foresee many taking issue with him. Lazenby was Australian, Brosnan Irish... the right American could pull it off.

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OK fair enough, I personally think he should always been played someone whose natural accent at least sounds British because when actors attempt to pull off different accents it usually doesn't turn out very well such as pretty much anyone in Legend of Baggar Vance or pretty much anyone in Cold Mountain.

Also casting a black actor just because "white actors have dominated the film industry for so long" is complete and utter nonsense and I'd go as far as to say that line of thinking is racist, you should cast the right actor for the role. Also if you cast a female actor then its no longer James Bond.

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No but we are talking about the films, not the books.

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You mean the books that the films are based on.

Those books.

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^This^

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It's controversial here on the internet boards probably because most are white males. And note the reason why so many women are earning top billing in movies nowadays is simply that more and more women go to the movies while white men stay home and pirate, play video games, post on bulletin boards etc. I was in the doctor's office last year and one of the medical professionals told me she goes to the movies all the time, listing dozens of recent releases.
In a nutshell, more women than men are going to the movie theaters. Thus, the movies will be made for them.

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Understandable and of course supply and demand is important but I just don't understand why it's controversial for Naomi Scott to play an Arab character yet it's progressive for a Black man to play Bond. It seems this is about racism which I simply don't see.

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Any race replacing a white male will be considered progressive because the white male used to be the majority with the most money and power. Now that the white male is considerably weaker there is an all out attack to take the power he is rapidly losing.
Why is the white male letting the power he once had slip out of his hands? He spends his time on the internet, video games, doesn't pursue education as much as women do. Now that so many people are obese he doesn't try to find a mate. If people were less obese and led a healthy lifestyle I doubt it would be nearly this bad.

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Yeah that's hypocritical, having a separate set of rules for individuals based on things they can't help.

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I have no interest in arguing, but saying more women than men go to the cinema is ridiculous.

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I'm a white male and i say its about goddamn time we were brought down a peg or two.
I guess this makes me a feminist, and a , um , anti racist.

Although the butthurt white boys will say this ,makes me racist against white/males

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Be careful what you wish for. The pendulum rarely stops in the middle.

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good point, look at South Africa. The white man there is really getting a feel for what an entire home population of oppressed black people will do when they regain power.

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You think white people should be brought down a peg or two? Yeah I agree you are racist.

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Just because white people have stopped stealing countries and murdering and enslaving the occupants dosent mean all's fair and equal now - there's a long way to go. You lot in the US only just let black people get on the bus ffs. Arpartied only just ended, and women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed out in public unaccompanied.

The only way for white males (like myself) to go is down , sorry . Freeing slaves means relinquishing power thats a fact , and ,just in case you're not following , a metaphor.

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Every people have stole countries, murdered and enslaved and still are doing so. Not just white people. Saudi Arabia and the middle east are not ruled by white people, either.

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no they're ruled by men who enslave and oppress women.
i brought up the middle east to represent the male part of the "white male" debate

Also on the stealing countries thing , whites have done it on a much bigger scale , this is why English is the international language, with Spanish in 2nd place.

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You're an idiot.

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White people have never been a majority. This is completely false. White people are 8% of the global population. White people have never even been the majority of the the entire West.

Did the people with the most power have white skin? yes. Do those particular people represent the entire white race? Fuck no, get outta here with that bullshit.

Elites are elites no matter who they are, and they just use bullshit like racism to keep themselves rich and united, and the rest of us poor and divided. FFS.

Oh yeah, and saying "white male" is Othering and racist.

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darnit I was trying to be sexist and messed up!

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Yeah, those white males just sitting around at home in their basements playing their video games, all day. Its not like white males actually contribute to almost every profession in western society. oh wait...
Also, not sure why the obesity jabs are aimed at white males when blacks and females have higher obesity rates in NA.

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Well, the white male has been dropping out of the work force in large numbers, white at the same time women becoming more educated/jobs than white men..white men having problems so bad they now have high suicide rates it's very alarming. Some intellectuals like Jordan Peterson have tackled why they are giving up and he also tries to provide solutions, such as his self authoring program.

Not trying to jab obesity at men, actually it seems that women are much, much more obese(like 80% women all around the U.S., the official stats say 40% but I think the obesity problem is so out of control the stats can't keep up! Male obesity rate seems to be around 30% but could part of the reason men are giving up is because they see such a large percentage of women are obese he just says "screw this"

I'm not trying to be argumentative about this obesity problem but it does seem we're no longer in an obesity epidemic, we are in an obesity catastrophe. And this is obesity I'm addressing, sure there are a lot of people overweight but obese? having a society where 100 MILLION PEOPLE or maybe even 200 MILLION PEOPLE being OBESE with the problem literally getting worse EVERY SINGLE DAY is terrifying. I spoke about my observations to a medical professional recently, he said he and basically the entire medical community is swamped and these people face agonizing early deaths due to skyrocketing rates of heart disease, liver/stomach and every other cancer, diabetes, etc.

The last few times I went to the store or mall or any other establishment I looked around and decided to count the first ten people I saw and every time I counted 80% obesity for women and around 30-40% for men. It's unbelievable and as a society do we blame these people for being weak or do we blame the huge corporations for making their sugary junk food so addicting? Is this sugar junk food addiction caused on purpose just to steal peoples money from cradle to grave?

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It's because they have no clue how to create their own characters, so they appropiate the popular ones. It's sad, pathetic, and it will fail hard.

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@ ebhaynz. That´s some cool anecdotal evidence and amazing sample size to base your opinion on.

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It’s supposed to be about opportunities. It’s not really about the race of a character, it’s about actors of non white distinction not having the same level of access as white actors do to roles. So when a white actor takes a non white role it’s seen as further limiting those opportunities.

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I don't buy that at all, there is absolutely nothing to stop Hollywood from creating strong, black characters. If the script is well written and the story is directed well there is nothing to stop those films from being successful. If Hollywood wants to make a film about a black, British super spy, go for it, if it has a solid script and is made by people who give a sh!t I'm sure it will be quite successful. But seriously don't water down James Bond with SJW propaganda.

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Its not for sale, you asked why its one way and not the other, thats why. You can accept it or not, but it wont stop it being the reason.

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Gotcha so the answer is double standards. Not that I'm surprised.

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Only if you cant read and some kind of learning disability.

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No I did read, you said that it's OK to go one way and not the other way because there are more successful franchises that have white characters. Well the James Bond series owes NOTHING to the black community. Hollywood is mostly dominated by liberals, if they want to create more roles that have strong, black characters I say go for it, but let the roles stand on their own. The James Bond series is not responsible for a quota system.

I understand their rationale just fine, that doesn't make it legitimate.

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No, I didnt say that. Maybe you'll want to try reading it again without the bullshit covering your eyes.

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"it’s about actors of non white distinction not having the same level of access as white actors do to roles. So when a white actor takes a non white role it’s seen as further limiting those opportunities."

That's exactly what you said, the double standard by your logic is OK because white's have more access to roles. That's complete nonsense, the roles are dictated by the writers in Hollywood who are predominately liberal. They very could easily write a script based on a Black super spy and if they have the right people behind it it could be very successful. The idea that blacks have less access to roles is complete horseshit.

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I guess its a learning disability then.

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I guess you don't have an intelligent response then.

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Don't bother with that dude, Hippo. He's obviously a mindless automaton.

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LOOOOOOL

BigWorm for the win

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Kid I go to the movies to be entertained, not to have SJW messages forced down my throat. If it's OK to swap out ethnicities one way then it's OK to swap out ethnicities the other way.

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And there it is. The real reason for the thread. You take care, cupcake.

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This is nothing new, I said from the beginning that this entire double standard was hypocritical. Learn to read, it sounds like you're the one with the learning disability.

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Personally I don't care, I just want the best person for the role who stays close to the source material, I didn't have a problem with Eve Moneypenny, I didn't have a problem with Halle Berry playing Catwoman (she was not what ruined that movie) what I do have a problem with is two different sets of rules that are dictated solely by skin color.

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“SJW messages”

LOLOLOL

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If it's OK to swap out ethnicities one way then it's OK to swap out ethnicities the other way.
Basically - its their turn.
Whites have been in charge for centuries , now you have to let the other races have a go , and not be a whiny bitch about it.

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Don't even bother trying to have a discussion about the double standards in movies/TV shows to the SJW crowd. They are so far up there liberal arse they can't even see there own bullshit.

Man to woman is fine and progressive
White to black is fine and progressive
White to any other ethnicity is fine and progressive

Black to white is racist and white washing
Woman to Man i don't think has happened so can't say what SJW's would call it.

As you found out with Bigworm, SJW's don't give counter arguments becuase they don't have any. It is just "you don't agree with me so that makes you a racist/sexist" or they just outright insult you.

It is of course hypocritical and a double standard but you if you are a white male then your opinion doesn't count because you are part of the patriarchy and automatically a racist right wing nazi incel who is afraid of woman.

As far as i can tell those are the new rules.

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Remember they're just catering to the audience. The audiences nowadays are not white men, they are white women, black men and woman, Asian, and hispanic. White men are the primary audience on the Internet, especially with pirating.

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Fair enough so create an original work of a black female super spy ,

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Why? when they can make A LOT more money by doing it via a Bond movie.

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And that’s the problem with Hollywood today, why create something new when you can just latch onto something already successful

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I know, it does suck. I've been a movie lover all my life but ever since 2000 the movie's have been steadily going downhill. Starting in 2005 it got way, way worse. A lot of things happened to cause this demise I could write about all day long. I realize the movies aren't what they used to be and that Hollywood has found ways to continue making money. I'm not the target audience anymore and I have to get used to it cause it probably isn't going to change. I don't necessarily agree that Hollywood is liberal I'll be more direct and say they're whores who will be anything to anybody who will pay them money. Honestly I'm more mad that Netflix tv shows are always lackluster, where's a truly buzzworthy show like Oz, Sopranos, Breaking Bad? We did get Chernobyl, even I admit that was fantastic but I wish there was more than that out there. And ALL late night tv is unwatchable: Colbert, Fallon, Corden, even SNL.

Anyway, it looks like more and more women, blacks, asians, hispanics are buying tickets and enjoying themselves at the movies. I'm truly happy for them and I am very thankful for all those great movies I enjoyed from the 70's/80's/90's. Also, I do think EON does a pretty good job with their Bond movies, I didn't like QOS or Spectre but I think the new one will be better than those turkeys.

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No figures just a blanket statement that movies are not made for white men.

In 2017, there were 159.41 million men in the United States, compared to 165.92 million women. By 2024, it is projected that there will be 167.08 million men and 173.9 million women in the U.S. So about 51/49 in favour of woman.

Now considering 62% of the American population is white and they purchased 51% of all movie tickets then by the above stats it would be 26% woman and 25% men purchasing tickets.

https://www.mekkographics.com/american-moviegoers-by-age-and-ethnicity/

If you then go and look at european countries you will find that white men soon pass white woman and every other demograhic by a decent margin.

To say "White men are the primary audience on the Internet, especially with pirating" is both ludicrous and without merit and pretty insulting to white men. So Woman, blacks, asians and hispanics don't pirate movies, yeh ok you keep living in your delusional bubble.

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You're own article says "Non-Caucasian Americans are also more frequent moviegoers than Caucasians". and then you made a wrong assumption about men vs. women ticket buyers so here's the real truth:
“females have comprised a larger share of moviegoers (people who went to a movie at the cinema at least once in the year) consistently since 2009'
https://filmschoolrejects.com/women-are-the-majority-of-the-movie-audience-but-what-do-they-really-want-to-see-c97da7ad6ecf/
So, to summarize: 1. Women go to see movies more than men. 2. Non-Caucasians see more movies than Caucasians.

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What audience? All SJW movies are flopping lmfao 😂 Hollywood must HATE money 😂

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Thank you and he never even demonstrated that black actors don’t have any opportunities in Hollywood despite the fact that Hollywood is dominated by liberals. I said it before and I’ll say it again : I had no problem with eve moneypenny because her adaptation of the character was respectful to what came before her and to the source material. It’s the double standard I can’t stand and this whole “well white people have it so easy so it’s ok to discriminate” nonsense

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Don't even bother trying to have a discussion about the double standards in movies/TV shows to the SJW crowd. They are so far up there liberal arse they can't even see there own bullshit.

You know , ive never actually seen one of those people , just lots of angry white men shouting that :
a) I'll say what i want and i dont care if it offfends you "snowflakes"
b) women and coloureds are taking over

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Exactly. And “white male” led films have been the majority for over 100 years... There’s been 26 white male James Bond movies, & I don’t think they’re changing that format anytime soon.

But if they do try it sometime - it might breathe some new life into the films, or it might be terribly written. I’ll judge the film on it’s merits. Not on the history of the other 30 some Bond films that we already have, & not by what color the dudes skin is.
It’s not a bad thing to have a more diverse movie experience.

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Nailed it.

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Hahaha! I love this post. Seriously, it's spot on!

I agree with it completely, and I love how you put all of their comebacks in there as well, because those are all the "go to" comebacks for all of them. Anybody who is getting sick of the constant identity politics, to them, truly is a "racist right wing nazi incel who is afraid of women." It makes me laugh every time I read a quote or something similar from a "woke" individual on social media.

It's amazing what identity politics has become, and what it has done to people. Logic has gone right out the window. In order to "supposedly" eliminate racism, which is what the Democratic Party "supposedly" values (as should every decent human being) they choose to make EVERY SINGLE PARTICLE of their day revolve around race/gender. How does that make sense? By definition, they are BEING RACIST, but as been mentioned several times, it's ok to be sexist and racist depending on which race or gender is the recipient of the racism. I'm beside myself trying to figure out the logic.

It would almost be funny if it wasn't so sad and fucking annoying listening to the constant babbling about the race and gender of everyone whenever a movie is released in 2019. I LOVE movies, I always have, but this constant bickering (not the castings of different races in films, that is what it is, and as long as it isn't pandering and lecturing I have no problem with it) about race and gender has turned me off to a lot of movie discussions, and I can't even think of watching an awards show anymore (I used to LOVE the Oscars and Golden Globes). It's really an "over the top", "jump the shark" time we're living in.

There is no way back from this either...that's the frightening thing. Every discussion until the end of time from the ultra-liberal section of the world will be about race and gender from now on, which is unbelievably hypocritical. Logic and reason have gone so far out the window for them that it's floating in space somewhere.

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Bonds race and gender has little to do with the character, and also Bond cannot be even close to real. He was middle aged in the 60s.

See, when dominant white males create a fictional white male, the race and gender simply match because they are irrelevant, UNLESS the race or the gender is chosen for a specific reason.

The same is true for every race and gender of author.... race and gender only matter when chosen for a specific character reason.

Example... showing the main character's birth REQUIRES a female mother.

See how simple it actually is?

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The issue is that it’s apparently ok to switch races one way but not the other which is a double standard and hypocritical , and if you have to deviate far from the source material you’d might as well just make an original character

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Its not, you just didnt read anything I wrote and ignored exactly what I just said and youre illiterate AND youre a well known unintelligent troll for years AND youve already had racist sexist trolling deleted here on this board.

Its not OK either way if the race or gender was important unless the switch is important too (like Jews into mice and Nazis into cats for Maus).

Don't you ever get tired of your years of just posting stupid shit for attention? Are you mentally damaged?

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Ok froggy you can can it with the personal insults because it makes you look idiotic and immature yourself and if the rule is it’s ok to switch races either way then that’s fine so was the controversy surrounding Naomi Scott in Aladdin not warranted? I mean agrobah isn’t even a real place? How about casting white kids in the last air bender? Also if lyshona Lynch does take over the role it will no longer be the James Bond series meaning they’d might as well just invent a whole new franchise ,

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You're immature and always have been, you get what you deserve, so dont start playing the "high horse" game suddenly because I know it's just a game.

The fact that you refer to the truth, to factual history of your posts both here and on IMDb, as a personal insult, is all that needs to be said.

Yes, your history here is an insult to everyone, including yourself apparently.

You said it, not me. You're talking into a mirror.

This is what's known as karma. Enjoy the ride, bucko.

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Froggy I hate to break this to you but not liking Rey's character doesn't make you sexist, wanting the James Bond series to focus on its source material and not PC/SJW doesn't make you racist and disagreeing with you isn't an insult. You need to grow up and learn to deal with criticism. If I suffered any karma I obviously missed it, better luck next time.

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Froggy suffers from the mental disorder we call liberalism and suffers from Trump Derangement Syndrome. Can't reason with him, the frog is too far gone.

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Oh believe me I have watched him on the Donald Trump Board and he is a complete joke, that and he pitched a fit that people objected to Rey from The Force Awakens for being a weak character and he immediately pulled out the gender card.

I think we should find him a safe space.

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Thats really all they have. Race card, gender card, etc.

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Scotlands Black population right now not including asian is 1%.

Overall black population in United Kingdom is 3%

Scotland has a 97% white population.

In 1950 there woud have been about 20k black population out of 50 million.

If we say his age is 40 then he was born in 1910 which guarentees he was white.

He went to Eton ( exclusive private school, no chance of that if you were black, not in the early 1900's

He joined the Navy and rose to the rank of Commander, when he joined it would have been the 2nd World War, there wouldn't have been any black Naval Officers.

Bond is said to resemble Hoagy Carmichael who was no surprise white.

So to say his heritage and history can be chopped and changed is an insult to Ian fleming.

James Bond is of Anglo Scottih Hertigate. His Father is Scottish, his mother is Swiss, both white. Written by a white author descrbing him as white. He is the apoitimy of British aristocracy, sheek and style. This is shown in his choice of drinks, his fashion, the way he speaks and presents himself.

Bonds heritage is very important because he is white, this fact cannot be changed, it is in the books, it is in the films.

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Exactly and I don’t care who is cast as bond as long as they can convincingly portray the character, casting a black woman for the sake of political correctness is nonsense and turning him into a woman would make him a completely different character meaning this character should just have their own series and if this means ending the James Bond series then fine

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I have a feeling you're the kind of person that sees the BET Awards and says, "How come there isn't a WHITE Entertainment Television Awards?"

"NAACP? How come there isn't an association for the advancement of WHITE people?"

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Never once did I say that, nice try kid. You are the one who seems to have an issue with race. You also seem to have a problem with reading comprehension because I stated quite clearly that I wouldn't care if the best actor to be Bond was black, I just think it's dumb to cast someone just because he's black.

I'm just sick of double standards.

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Nah, you'd say something more subtle like, "I'm okay with their being an association for the advancement of colored people. But why can't it go the other way? Why is it racist if I start an association for the advancement of WHITE people? I'm just sick of double standards!"

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Except I didn’t say that.

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I'm not nearly as progressive as Hollywood would like others to see them, or as blue-haired chicks on Twitter, but I am a liberal, so I think I can play devil's advocate enough to explain

Basically, it just has to do with the history of the country. Like it or not, the U.S. does have an extremely racist history. You can say that other countries do too, but that's beside the point. If Hollywood could control the movie industry of other countries I'm sure they'd make them go full SJW too. Hollywood is American so they carry the burden of American history

And you can say "that was the past, racism is over now". Even if we grant that racism is nonexistent or almost nonexistent nowadays (highly debatable) that is still a cop out. You must reckon with your past, you can't just sweep it under the rug. If your granddad was a nazi, and you are not, but decide that it's ok to keep some of his WW2 memorabilia, you are opening up yourself to valid criticism

The history of hollywood is racist, even if it has historically always been more liberal than most other parts of the country. Lots of stereotyping of native indians, asians, blacks, etc. pretty much every type of minority. Lots of whitewashing went on for decade after decade. Angry white men on the internet like to use terms like "blackwashing" for the changing of white characters to black, but even if it is blackwashing, it's been going on for only a tiny fraction of the time that whitewashing occurred. It's hard to sympathize with these angry white guys when other races had to suck it up for so long

And just because many major characters were originally written as white does not mean that they have to stay white. You aren't racist? Ok, cool. You are a modern, enlightened person who doesn't view minorities as inferior? Great. But, again, for decades and decades, the entertainment industry WAS full of racism/discrimination. So pretty much all iconic Western characters were originally white. Most major superheroes...

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most major literary characters, etc. were all originally white. So if you want to go by the rule of "keep all characters their original race" the almost every single famous fictional character will have to be white. Leaving scraps for minorities to play them

So of course you're going to say "well, make important minority characters and you can have those"

Yeah, no shit. That's obvious. Except, again, you claim that you are not racist and that you have no problem with minorities playing important characters. But you know damn well that it takes decades for fictional characters to reach the level of icon status. We've had James Bond for decades. Superman for decades. All the Disney princesses, etc.

Most new minority characters will take DECADES of excellent writing before they reach that kind of status. So you're basically telling minorities to wait another 30-40 years before they start taking major starring roles in the biggest franchises. So if there is no racism anymore, it's kind of funny that you expect them to wait basically until all of us are of old age or dead. That is why Hollywood doesn't pay any attention to this argument. Anyone except out of pretentious angry white internet wannabe intellectuals can see the flaws in these arguments. They can see them for the transparent attempt to keep the industry white for the foreseeable future

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Most new minority characters will take DECADES of excellent writing before they reach that kind of status. So you're basically telling minorities to wait another 30-40 years before they start taking major starring roles in the biggest franchises.

Then you should have started to build characters 30-40 years ago. Or 50 years ago. Or 100 years ago.

Enough is enough with blaming white people for everything. Some other ethic groups didn't write novels including them as main characters, and someway that's white people's fault, because that's the trend of our time. Blame whites!

Nobody has prevented black or any other group from writing stories. If they don't have stories with black characters, well, that's up to them. Whites are getting sick of becoming the excuse card for other people failures.

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Well, that might be a valid argument if black people weren't deprived of opportunities every step of the way all those years ago

The opportunity to receive good education, the opportunity to have their materials published or marketed on major platforms. There are plenty of novels written by black people with black characters. But since for a long time the country was majority white and apathetic towards black people, their works were not taken seriously

You say "whites are getting sick of...", but no. I'm white. I don't care that much. What you're you're really talking about is a subset of white people (mostly men) whose feelings of persecution have crossed over into the realm of paranoia

I think Hollywood's SJW moves are cringeworthy and masturbatory. But I don't see it as a "war on white people" or as some kind of conspiracy by a deep state. I don't really care. It's movies. They're not rounding up white people and putting them in gas chambers, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. The alt-right has brainwashed lots of white men into thinking they are under attack, but if losing a few roles in movies is really a form of attack then I think it's pretty laughable

For decades black people were caricatured as stupid and lazy by vaudeville and movies. That doesn't mean that we still feel that way about them today. Even if the media were actually trying to portray whites as evil, the truth prevails in the end. You're a white dude in America. Convincing yourself that you're being targeted like Jews were in Nazi Germany is not at all a healthy mindset to have

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(blacks were deprive of) The opportunity to receive good education, the opportunity to have their materials published or marketed on major platforms.

I'm sorry, but nobody prevented them from creating good universities or publishers. It's not that difficult. You know, bloody Mormons are a much smaller community and they have their own editorials and publish their own books, and have Colleges and even Universities.

Whites didn't deprive them of those opportunities, they just didn't admit them in the white ones. But nobody was going there to prevent them from writing books and creating publishing houses or Colleges. And we're not talking about a small community. Blacks are more than 10% of US. That's bigger than many European countries. If your community is bigger than Nederlands' population and you can't even f*cking create a few publishing houses and you need whites to publish your books, well, blame your own community, not whites.

That's racism by distance. If whites are on their own, that's oppression. How you dare to go on your own! You're oppressing me!

By the way, in South-Africa blacks got Colleges and Universities. And you know what has happened. Well, this picture will give some idea:
https://editor2.jacobinmag.com/app/uploads/sites/3/2016/09/LawLibrary2-1024x360.jpg

That was the Library of a University in South Africa. That was no accident, students burnt it because books were too 'white'. There were videos of the campires they did in some universities with books from their Libraries, a couple of years ago they were easy to find in internet, though they've been censored. Almost impossible to find them now. It doesn't fit the official 'evil whites' narrative.

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The "just wait" argument has always been a classic argument for crypto-racists trying to portray themselves as moderates

Back in the days of segregation it was the same thing. "You are disrupting the economy and inciting unrest among the masses with your protests. Just wait, eventually your education institutions will reach the level of quality as white institutions. Just be patient. Just wait, don't boycott our public transportation, eventually people will accept that blacks can sit anywhere they want, but in the mean time you are hurting the local economy"

There are many more examples, but I'm not gonna keep going on and on. I think you get the point. Every argument posed on the internet by these outraged white men has been posed by angry white men of all the past generations. They may think they're being original and bringing up clever points because they've watched lots of youtube videos, but nobody who isn't constantly surrounding themselves in internet echo chambers is impressed or moved by their arguments

Really only one thing would change it. These movies that change roles would have all have to bomb so horrifically that Hollywood would have to abandon its moral principles for the sake of making money. And they would, I guarantee you. Hollywood is ultimately just as greedy as any other industry. But I don't think the movies will bomb that hard, because even most white people don't really care. It's just a small subset of white men on the internet

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James Bond being a native Brit is comparable to segregation? Wow, lay off the Frankfurt School texts for a little while.

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I knew he was trolling when he compared “the wait” argument to racism. There’s nothing at all to stop a black actor from being successful , the only people who buy into that are the far Left radicals

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“far Left radicals”

LOLOLOL

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James Bond is gonna be black within the upcoming decade. Deal with it

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Dude I don't care if he's black but if you cast the actor just because he's black and not because he's the best choice for the role then that's stupid and racist. Also the fact that you compared only white people playing Bond to having to sit in the back of the bus is one of the most idiotic comments I have ever read on here and that is saying something.

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Speaking as an old progressive: The sort of people who waste their time crying for a black James Bond while the oceans are dying are a bunch of idiots. Don't even try to make sense of their nonsense.

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“Why can’t black people just create their own black spy series?”

Dude, why aren’t white people creating more white spy movies if James Bond is so popular?

It’s because James Bond is a decades old franchise that has become imbedded in pop culture, like “Star Wars”. It was also launched at a time when pop culture was predominantly white.

You’re saying that black actors can’t access James Bond because it makes you feel uncomfortable and they should instead build their own rival franchise and then develop it over 60 years.

LOL

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Take a look at Mission Impossible, another film series about spies that isn't James Bond that is doing very well right now. If the goal is to create a spy series where the main character is black it really shouldn't be that hard to make a film that can stand on its own rather than having to connect itself to the James Bond series.

And where did I say that black actors can't access the James Bond series? I didn't, in fact some of Bond's best allies have been black such as Quarrell, Harold Strutter, Sharkey, etc. I also didn't care that they made Felix Leiter black, Jeffrey Wright did a good job.

Your point is stupid and also I never said "why can't black people just create their own spy series". First of all I never said the Bond series was just for White people, secondly Bond has had several allies who were in fact black and many of them were awesome, heck Naomi Harris and Halle Berry were two of my favorite Bond girls, but of course the progressive response to that is probably "you're only saying that so you can try to hide your closet racism", well the day you can read my mind get back to me.

I also never said it makes me uncomfortable, it's just a stupid idea to have a black woman replace James Bond because then the series would cease to be the James Bond series which is NOT a codename, we would then be focusing on Nomi or whoever so if that's what they plan on doing they should just make a different franchise and there is absolutely no reason it can't be successful. But make no mistake, the James Bond franchise owes you nothing, the fact that it's successful doesn't mean it now has to operate on a quota system.

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This is what I wrote:

Dude, why aren’t white peoples creating more white spy movies if James Bond is so popular?


As the other posters have mentioned, your reading and comprehension abilities need a polish. “Mission Impossible” is another ancient, popular franchise that existed for decades before becoming a vehicle for the highest paid actor on Earth at the time, Tom Cruise.

Black actors should have access to the series as James Bond, not an ally or side character. It’s 2019.

Please, go back to your comfort zone of complaining about being forced to watch SJW content by the radical Left...

LOLOLOLOL

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Dude do you understand how to read:

1) I brought up Mission: Impossible to show that it is possible to create a spy franchise and be successful yet have nothing to do with James Bond
2) Black actors have always had access to James Bond films, heck his partner in the very first film was black, he was a badass so I don't know WTF you are talking about.

I will say this again: I DO NOT CARE IF THE BEST ACTOR TO REPLACE CRAIG IS BLACK (He needs to at least be British however)!!! I just don't want them to cast someone just so we can have a black James Bond, that means the best actor wasn't casted!!! If they cast a woman however then the series will cease to be the James Bond series and therefore it would be dumb to continue it, they'd might as well just make a different franchise or make a spin off within the universe of the Bond series and have it be its own separate thing.

My main issue is the double standard (it's OK in this society for some reason for black actors to replace white actors but it can't go the other way).

I know you think playing the race card is an effective strategy but all it does is get people pissed off at you and cause them to not take you seriously. Learn some better debate tactics kid.

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Mission Impossible wasn´t a film franchise it was a tv show and it had hardly the following, nor the history that James Bond did. I could have got behind Will Smith as Ethan Hunt in 1996, but I wouldn´t get behind changing almost 60 years of film history for the sake of political correctness.

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