MovieChat Forums > Nymphomaniac: Vol. II (2014) Discussion > What corrupted Seligman *Spoilers*

What corrupted Seligman *Spoilers*


Seligman was the voice of reason and forgiveness throughout the whole film but then he got corrupted like the pedophile man. He was only asexual because he hadn't found his poison yet and Joe's stories were not exciting him that is till the very end. So what turned Seligman on, what was his poison? The thrill of using firearms, or was it violence toward women, or was it urinating on someone?

However part of me thinks that it wasn't any of that, Seligman was asexual and Joe was a slave to her sexual desires, they were polar opposites. Later in the film Joe has come to terms with her nymphomania, Joe also persists on calling herself a bad human being. Did Seligman think that sex was such a great feeling to be slave to that this woman did all those things? Did this make Seligman view sexual pleasure as a feeling he must experience because this woman would go to hell and back but not be ashmed of her nymphomania, thus sexual pleasure is so good that it's worth it even if she is labled as a bad human being. So he must do everything in his power to experience it and in his folly and he thought that who better than Joe to teach him? Someone who has had sex with thousands of men would surely not refuse a man who gave her a listening ear, and was sympathetic to her, maybe she can make him feel what he was missing all this time from sex.

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Bad writing.

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Eh....I guess you didn't like the film. I for one really enjoyed it.

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I actually enjoyed the movie and was engaged up to that point, then the character does an about face for shock value. That's just where I think it flatlines.

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Not really.

Like the previous poster said, they were polar opposites.

However, at the end of the story, Joe the nympho, after everything that happened, didn't want to have sex (for the first time ever) when he creepily tried to penetrate her (he wasn't even hard).

And Seligman, for the first time ever wanted to try sex with someone that has done everything there is to do sexually. Dude was an inexperienced virgin, and at that age the only one that would have had sex with him would be a prostitute.
I guess he saw in Joe someone that wouldn't object to him "experimenting". Why didn't he do it before? I don't know.

The part that I have trouble with is why did she shoot him?
I mean, she could have just said NO, or could have gotten up and leave. She really didn't have to shoot him.

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"Why didn't he do it before? I don't know."

And that's what negates everything you said above. They are polar opposites as people, yes, however through the story he comes to admire her and respect her decision even as he leaves the room. They come together through understanding, then he suddenly pulls an 'about face' and attempts to have sex with her. Same for as why Joe shoots him. LVT needed the shock-value for the end even if it didn't make sense for everything that happened beforehand.

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I think he didn't do it earlier because he wasn't aroused enough. Through Joe's story he became aroused and got corrupted, that we can gather from the movie. What I am trying to figure out is what finally pushed him over.

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I agree. The ending wasnt necessary and it would have been a stronger impact had he remained a trusted new friend for her. Instead he does a complete turn around and ends up a disgusting person.

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I really enjoyed the movie, but agree with this. He's pretty asexual up until this point. I just didn't buy the sudden change. It pretty much comes down to bad writing.

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He says he is asexual. Lots of men act the Nice Guy who 'isn't like the other men', who wants to get to know a woman as a person, not for any sexual reason. They hope this will engender trust so that they can then get inside the woman. Think again about the early fly-fishing digression. You bait your catch via pretence.

I don't think the ending is wholly satisfying, but I did think something like that was going to happen.


Kylo Ren is one of the weakest force users we've seen. That's a fact.

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He felt superior to her and sensed his Sexuality but even this couldn't help him.
Her shooting was an act of starting to defense herself and freeing him.

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So many posters falling over themselves to justify some foolishness. It doesn't matter what his intentions, personal reasons, rationalization was. At all. He chose to take home a woman, unknown to him, who had been brutalized and left unconscious in a back alley. He then listened to her entire life story, her confessions as if he was a compassionate, nonjudgmental friend, and bore witness to her pain and the suffering her choices caused others, while counseling that she change her life. Most importantly, he bore witness to--heard her tell directly and clearly--that she was exhausted and was resolved to change, to end her sexual addiction.

She is tired. With good reason and she wants to sleep after being brutalized and left in an alley, but also from the five hour story of her life where she dredged up everything, trusting him with details she probably had not faced within herself.

THEN, this sad sack that we have all been directed by LVT to trust, decides for reasons I can imagine but give no focks about, to return her room where she is SLEEPING, with his penis in hand, and tries to have sex with her. Wtf? Whatever his reasons, it was selfish, horrid move that betrayed her trust and revealed him in that moment to have been yet another man who thinks he is entitled to be focked. No matter his reasons, HIS desire, the timing was horrific and it made a lie his whole act of pretending to listen and hear her. Even if he wasn't pretending to listen, he made it tragically clear that he did not comprehend when he offered the timeless refrain that sad sacks have made through the ages: "...but why not me, you're slept with _______ men!"

She killed him because she was betrayed, and tired on multiple levels. She had no focks left. And so, she
didn't bother dragging the scene out by listening to his "reasons" for doing the exact opposite of what she said she had decided for herself, so she dressed and got the hell out Dodge.

The ending was a deliberate choice by LVT and while I was saddened that old dude's sexual coming of age was so poorly timed, her shooting his wretched ass made sense to me. It wasn't right but she wasn't wrong either. For me the ending indirectly challenges rape culture, where people are taught to believe that if they desire they are owed or entitled to sex. The fact that the guy could sit and hear all her hard truths, but not hear that she was done, says almost everything. And her shooting him says the rest.

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So many posters falling over themselves to justify some foolishness. It doesn't matter what his intentions, personal reasons, rationalization was. At all. He chose to take home a woman, unknown to him, who had been brutalized and left unconscious in a back alley. He then listened to her entire life story, her confessions as if he was a compassionate, nonjudgmental friend, and bore witness to her pain and the suffering her choices caused others, while counseling that she change her life. Most importantly, he bore witness to--heard her tell directly and clearly--that she was exhausted and was resolved to change, to end her sexual addiction.

She is tired. With good reason and she wants to sleep after being brutalized and left in an alley, but also from the five hour story of her life where she dredged up everything, trusting him with details she probably had not faced within herself.

THEN, this sad sack that we have all been directed by LVT to trust, decides for reasons I can imagine but give no focks about, to return her room where she is SLEEPING, with his penis in hand, and tries to have sex with her. Wtf? Whatever his reasons, it was selfish, horrid move that betrayed her trust and revealed him in that moment to have been yet another man who thinks he is entitled to be focked. No matter his reasons, HIS desire, the timing was horrific and it made a lie his whole act of pretending to listen and hear her. Even if he wasn't pretending to listen, he made it tragically clear that he did not comprehend when he offered the timeless refrain that sad sacks have made through the ages: "...but why not me, you're slept with _______ men!"

She killed him because she was betrayed, and tired on multiple levels. She had no focks left. And so, she
didn't bother dragging the scene out by listening to his "reasons" for doing the exact opposite of what she said she had decided for herself, so she dressed and got the hell out Dodge.

The ending was a deliberate choice by LVT and while I was saddened that old dude's sexual coming of age was so poorly timed, her shooting his wretched ass made sense to me. It wasn't right but she wasn't wrong either. For me the ending indirectly challenges rape culture, where people are taught to believe that if they desire they are owed or entitled to sex. The fact that the guy could sit and hear all her hard truths, but not hear that she was done, says almost everything. And her shooting him says the rest.

Spot on. Well said.

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Well said. Why are people shocked by either action? This happens to women/girls all the time. It's called acquaintance rape. Go home with a guy friend/older male relative/older family friend/teacher/boss/coworker/etc, have drinks, fall asleep watching a movie, and wake up with his dick in one of your holes. All that time he was talking to her, building her trust, he's only grooming her. He's asexual, yes, of course, but for LVT to drive home the point that rarely is rape about sex. It's about power.

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Seligman was a complete soul loner through all his life. And that was the reason he didn’t have sex with anyone, so his asexuality was the consequence of the fact that he never had a soul mate in his life, which, for his personality, was the key to having sexual feelings.
He was not aroused by Joe’s stories, because that was not the key to his sexuality - not his poison, as you named it.
But he got the poison in, when she said he was her first real friend, her soul mate, and that suddenly released his sexuality. Because it was probably the first time ever in his life that someone called him a real friend, and the first time he felt the call of his sexuality, he didn’t have any experience dealing with it, so he just did, what he did, following his deep instincts – his rationality could not help him at all in this situation, it is a pure psycophysiology.

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This part is still bothering me.

I absolutely agree with Wanganeman....'s post. But, in Vol. 1, Joe has raped others. Not that that excuses Seligman.

But what bothers me is why he did it when and how he did. It's just asking for trouble and makes absolutely no sense to me (see Wangan's post).

He's really the first person she's trusted, so it must have been that much harder on her, especially after the two other significant people in her lives have basically screwed her over.

Unless he's lied this whole time and this IS his modus operandi. To take someone in, gain their trust, and then count on them just being too tired or too timid to say no? But he'd never met someone like Joe before.

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I even felt betrayed by him, lol

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