MovieChat Forums > Fed Up (2014) Discussion > government subsides are to blame

government subsides are to blame


let me get this straight. we, the tax payers, are FORCED to subsidize the corn industry to the tune of nearly 10 BILLION dollars a year in order to artificially lower the cost of corn, and by extension corn syrup.

and then when we use said cheaper corn syrup, the most common "solution" is to charge a "fat tax" or some other tax for using it?????

why not cut out the middleman? why not save the 10 BILLION dollars a year, let the price of corn rise to its natural state in a free market, and let the consumer chose whether or not sugar or corn syrup is what they want???

EVERY TIME the government gets involved, there are "unforeseen" consequences, that we the people end up paying for.

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EVERY TIME the government gets involved, there are "unforeseen" consequences, that we the people end up paying for.


So true. Just ask the people whose homes were foreclosed on.

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The free market is not really free. I put up sort of a rant replying to the 'alarmist garbage' post so I won't do that here. People are lead down the aisles by misinformation so when they think they are "choosing" they are basing their choices on different stamps of approval, commercials, celebrity endorsements, made up names for chemicals and other poor ingredients. Like that commericial that was airing last year (I haven't seen it in a while) about how "all sugars are the same". It was a pro-corn syrup commercial basically telling people that corn syrup was just as good as eating fruit because the sugar in fruit is the same. Its so wrong, yet people believe it -- or they lie to themselves and justify eating bad because "they" said it was the same; or the FDA approved it; my doctor said... That's a whole other topic--what doctors don't know about nutrition.

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ignoring for a moment that according to all research and the FDA that all sugars are processed by the body the same (if you would like to cite a peer reviewed article suggesting otherwise, by all means do), commercials and endorsements are a part of the free market.

if you are so easily manipulated into buying things based on a commercial, then you're an idiot with no one to blame but yourself, and you probably shouldn't be voting either.

fyi - real dietitians are doctors, so one would think they know far more about nutrition than your local organic store. funny how you're so willing to accept the propaganda from one side.

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If you are talking to me, thanks for being so friendly. I didn't say I was easily manipulated, but a lot of people are. And you used the same wording as the corn syrup pushers--processed by the body the same. Thereby hoping the buyer believes it is same. Its word play. Thousands of dollars are spent on marketing. Ads and commercials don't just throw out the facts and let you decide. They are clever and want to sell their product. Common sense would tell you that chemically processed white sugar, HFCS, etc, are worse for you than equally caloric, equal grams of 'sugar' of 100% juice or even other natural sweeteners. Juice carries more nutrients with the calories. Instead of just the juice, eating the fruit of equal calories from sugar is even better as more nutrients and fiber come with that. Even though the calories may be equal and are from "sugar", its not the same. Glycemic index is also different among sugars--hence the combining of different sugars for example, in sports drinks. Not to discuss whether they are good or bad for you, they type of sugar does matter. Its not as simple as sugar is sugar in the end. With regards to 'doctors' most people don't go to a dietician to start out with. They go to a general practitioner who, unless they specialize in nutrition or have taken an interest in it, just pass on the same messages because its so ingrained in what we think we know about nutrition. The messages that revolve around the made up food pyramid, FDA recommendations, etc, etc, are based more on what Americans eat, not what should be eaten; based more on who will pay the most for the different sections on a pie chart that guide what they say we should eat. That is all starting to change, but its a slow process. And no, some dieticians don't know more than a local organic store. You never know who you are talking to. Its becoming more common to have a dietician on staff/contracted at a local organic store so people can get advice they will trust. Aside from that, anyone can pass on the same old stale info that's been passed on for years whether they have MD behind their name or not. Sure you might get some employee at a health food store who just passes on garbage info and thinks they know what they are talking about--that can happen anywhere, but you might also talk to someone who's spent considerable amount of time researching and studying health and nutrition because they want to know more about it, have dealt with illnesses naturally and learned from experience, but don't end up with a degree to show for it. Our country, with all its MD's and PhD's , arguably in the lead for the medical care worldwide, also lead the way in disease. Something isn't adding up. Our 'health care' system is not based on keeping people 'healthy'. Its a reactionary system set up to respond to medical problems with medications. Its more of a 'disease Care' or 'Sick Care' system. We need to get in front of the problems by going back to eating how we did before everything was processed. We've lived on the bad side of the propaganda for several years--for so long we don't even know that its propaganda because its normal now. Its been delivered to us as 'good' and 'right' and has had no opposition. Anything that goes against it is now labeled as 'propaganda', 'fear mongering', 'alarmist', etc. What a strange era we live in.

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processed by the body the same


BECAUSE THEY ARE.

Thousands of dollars are spent on marketing.


thousands? okay, well, millions are spent by the organic industry on marketing so did you have a point? you're fine with one side marketing but not the other? pretty sure there is a word for that

at least a billion dollars worth of organic food comes to the US from china. do you still trust it? you still think an organic tomato from china is better than a GMO tomato grown in the US?


you were asked to name ONE peer reviewed article, and failed to do so. saying something is "common sense" is simply not how science works.



PLEASE offer paragraph breaks in order to make it easier to read your rants

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You seem upset and are reading more into what I've written. I don't believe I came across as some 'organic' only advocate. However, I try to buy some things organic or maybe not organic, but non GMO when available. Many things, due to market demand, are going that direction as that is what people want. That could be because people blindly believe things about organic items that have been marketed to them, maybe they did some research and decided for themselves. In some cases it is better, some cases its probably not. That can be due to some of the guidelines that have been manipulated. For instance, a chicken company can say they have free range chickens. Most picture a prairie with happy chickens roaming free. I am not sure if its nationally or not, but in some cases free-range means they have access to a range. There could 5000 chickens in a barn with access to a small door, but only a few will ever see daylight. But, they are "free range." I realize there is propanda on both side.

I do think that with the recent marketing of organic, raw, natural, non-GMO (fill in the latest cool phrase) has helped sales on both sides--competition can create overall increases in sales. So if someone is looking at organic kale or quinoa or some other currently trendy food, but then sees that the non organic is more reasonably priced and they buy that, good for them. They've eating something different, maybe better for them than what they would have ordinarily purchased--whether organic or not.

There's a lot of factors to consider. Local farms and business can offer organic or non GMO and retailers can keep the costs lower and the food fresher because it doesn't have to travel so far. In some cases if the organic is the same price or close, why not try it? I don't like the idea of eating food that's been chemically treated so if I can get it, I'll get it, but I also don't think its going to kill me to have something that was GMO or was treated with something. Just for fun, go out and get a couple organic banana's and some regular. Do it with a few foods. Maybe check to see that it is truly organic and the company didn't bend the rules to tack the label on it. You can tell the difference in taste in a lot of cases. Do a blind taste test and you'll see. Again, I am not an organic only person, but since you pegged me as such, give it a shot.

If you care to check, there are a lot of articles that point to a Stanford study on organic food vs. regular. They say that the organic is not necessarily more nutritious, but then delve into the topic of other reasons why people may choose organic. Some article take different angles such at focusing on the chemical aspect, the taste, color, supporting local farms, etc.

Didn't this start out as a message board for a movie that was mainly about added sugar (that's what the trailer was mostly about...)?

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sigh, still no peer reviewed articles even remotely suggesting that your view is correct.

it is about sugar, and corn syrup and sugar are processed by the body exactly the same. you disagree, you say the FDA is wrong, and yet have not been able to produce a single peer reviewed study to suggest otherwise.

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according to all research and the FDA that all sugars are processed by the body the same


No it isn't. This doctor reports how different sugars are processed by the body.
http://www.live-pure.com/sugar-the-bitter-truth-by-dr-lustig-a-summary/

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dr. lustig?!?! LOL - he's pretty much been completely discredited, and not to mention his willingness to say anything the guy paying him wants.

for example: "Dr. Lustig’s past writings also inconveniently reflect his scientific opinion that HFCS 'and sucrose are, for all intents and purposes, biochemically and metabolically equivalent"
Forbes. November 14, 2013.

"High-fructose corn syrup, sugar — no difference." - dr. lustig
New York Times Magazine. April 13, 2011.


yup, clearly you should be listening to him instead of the FDA

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Ok, I am done after this post so who ever wants the last commment, fine. Here's my take because I have been misunderstood--I think.

The food industry is similar to the tobacco industry. I know, blah, blah, you've already heard this one... I think people should be held accountable for their own level of health (talking about people that would otherwise be healthy if not for their bad choices--disease that start within the body is usually caused by their choices of food, drugs, smoking--what you put in your body). Tobacco companies covered up studies and research and/or funded their own to make smoking maybe not look healthy, but not look so bad. They got doctors and actors to endorse their products. I see the 'milk mustache' campaign as pretty darn close to that. (Please don't pick apart my example.) Anyway, people should be held responsible for their choices--they know too much processed food, sugar, bad fat, etc, is bad for them, despite what a company or a study says. However, food companies falsely advertise and cleverly market their products so that people choose them thinking they aren't that bad, or maybe they are even good for them. People believe what the label says because usually its backed by the FDA, RDA, USDA, and people don't think the gov't would let them say that if it was bad for them. (Yet, people know that the gov't squanders the money they get taken from them via taxes, people don't trust the gov't when it comes to politics, but they believe them about diet? Odd.) People believe what they want to believe to justify their behavior because they don't want to be responsible for themselves or their problems. They need to be more responsible, but companies need to just tell the truth and not falsely advertise, twist words, or studies, or for example say "made with real fruit" because they added 5% fruit juice to their product. Also, if its not real fruit, what is it? Of course its real--what is fake fruit? I think its plastic fruit for display, so of course if it has fruit in it, it has to be real. Anyway, people are easily fool and/or don't want to look beyond the label. Don't confuse the idea that companies need to be held accountable for their statements and actions with thinking that I am saying should be held liable for others' problems. Tobacco lied. They lied big time. Should they be responsible for people who get lung cancer for smoking? Not so much. Smoking is a process that takes many steps to complete: you have to earn money, go to the store, fork over the money, get a lighter, and smoke up. Eating bad food is a process that has many steps. Eating bad involves many steps as well. We can choose to eat better. However, we live in a world that is all about speed and convenience and people don't want to spend time making good food. Companies know this and make it cheaper and easier to ead bad. People need to see thru this.

With regards to the whole organic, natural, non-GMO push... This can actually work in favor of the big crappy food, sugar companies who lie. In a good way for those who want people to be accountable for their choices. There will be a day when a saavy attorney gets a class action law suit with 1000's of overweight diseased people in front of a liberal judge who sides in favor of the plaintiffs and says McDonalds, Hormel, (fill in the company) is LIABLE for their disease. Hopefully there is so much info out there by the 'organic' companies (or their "propaganda" as you call it) that the defense can say they did have a choice and the other information was out there. Sadly, just like tobacco and auto companies, food manufacturers are calculating what it will cost to pay off the law suits when the $hit hits the fan vs changing their ad campaigns and being truthful. They will likely end up rolling over and paying for others' problems because its cheaper.

I think you've pegged me wrong. I think people need to be responsible, I think companies should be held accountable for their misinformation, but not held liable for others' choices.

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Dr. Lustig is discredited by whom? And are they in any way associated with the sugar industry?

I am providing another link with a different doctor and he also quotes other sources since you asked for peer reviewed articles.
http://drhyman.com/blog/2011/05/13/5-reasons-high-fructose-corn-syrup-will-kill-you/#close

I highly recommend the book "Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us"
written by Michael Moss.

The FDA does make a distinction among different sugars. They recommend eating plenty of fruit and said naturally occurring sugars in fruit is fine, but to limit sugar that is found in cakes, candy, etc. You can find this information in their food pyramid.

BTW, I disagree with any "study" that equates orange juice to soda. Or a candy bar to a carrot. Soda and candy makes me crash, but orange juice "kills" my oncoming cold. I really believe you have to use your own common sense since even the FDA changes their information over time.

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ignoring everything else, he is discredited by his own words

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We give our money, our taxes, our health, and our services as long as we are healthy to the corporatocracy which just takes more and more and gives back nothing and treats us like cattle, maybe worse than cattle because they care how healthy cattle are because they have to sell them.

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Does anyone seriously think we'd be doing this if there was a line on your ballot when you went to vote that said:

Do you want to subsidize the corn industry 10 billion a year (about $33 per person)? vote YES or NO?


let me get this straight. we, the tax payers, are FORCED to subsidize the corn industry to the tune of nearly 10 BILLION dollars a year in order to artificially lower the cost of corn, and by extension corn syrup.

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Does anyone seriously think we'd be doing this if there was a line on your ballot when you went to vote that said:

Do you want to subsidize the corn industry 10 billion a year (about $33 per person)? vote YES or NO?


AGREED

my online writing style is one of speed and apathy, NOT ignorance

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