I'm talking about Jessica's tap performance in "The Dinner", obviously.
I thought she was pretty good.
Well, its sort of anachronistic and therefore possibly racist. Armand says, thanks, that was 'memorable'. It was inappropriate as Jessica later realized.
I'm a civilian, I'm not a trout
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it was more just the fact she was making a big F'in spectacle of herself
share
But Amelia also made a spectacle of her self, and at the urging of everyone at the party.
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The difference is in your own wording. Amelia was *requested* to perform, on the basis of some role she played that the other guests knew of; Jessica wasn't. To go further into it, Stuart and Jessica weren't even really invited to that party!
I really don't understand how you can be so perplexed by that scene or its meaning.
It's perplexing because they took issue with the quality of the performance itself. Recall Armand's reaction "that was very brave". It would be another matter entirely if she were just plain bad at it.
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Again, the issue was not the quality, it was the fact that she did it at all. Insisted on doing it, no less.
Again, Armand's line suggests otherwise.
"Brave" would not be the way to describe an unwanted performance. It's a way to describe a bad performance.
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Please don't take offense to this question, but are you by any chance somewhere on the autism spectrum?
Please don't take offense to this question, but are you by any chance somewhere on the autism spectrum?
Well, I can't say I am trying to persuade you of anything. It's just strange that someone would even ask something so obvious. It's as if you don't have much of a grasp on social cues.
The hostess was at best only tolerating Stuart and Jessica's presence at her party, and the other guests may not have been aware that S&J weren't "true" invitees.
However, I don't understand what this point has to do with your original question about the tap dancing. What I am trying to convey is that it really wasn't about how good Jessica was at it. It was all about the fact that well-adjusted people simply don't behave that way. That's why we all cringe when witnessing something like that.
Saying it was very brave was just a way of smoothing out a really awkward situation.
However, I don't understand what this point has to do with your original question about the tap dancing.
I think she did a good job as well, plus i think Christine Woods is very attractive, but tap dancing… its not usually something to show off at any given time, i guess tap dancing isnt considered overall to be hip
Its a different branch of entertainment that doesnt appeal to everyone, Jessica really isnt the Hollywood type, she should work in theatre or something.
What also made it more painful was because Jessica has nothing to show for with her acting "career", she had no short "Wow" moment, so she had to resort to a secondary skill, but she also disrupted the flow of the conversation to impose her number on the others.
After the moment deemed to have passed according to the hosts and guests, Jessica insisted on performing.
They werent really into it, and her desperate coin tape solution didnt really help either, i actually thought she was gonna injure one of the guests with a coin shooting loose from the tape.
Then she got on the table/bar, and the woman yelling to her to get off from it, it just didnt work out as planned, the moment was killed, and Jessica insisting to finish her number, it was just a collision of taste vs talent and a lot of desperation.
Plus the hosts & guests were mainly just being good hosts & guests as far as their shallow worlds allowed them to be, Stuart got lucky on the jokes before, somehow he managed to play it right, but they both overplayed their hand at some point, which is why they both had to leave at the end.
but tap dancing… its not usually something to show off at any given time
Or if you're actually going to a dance audition and you have massive skills. I used to take tap myself and I can say it is not easy, and she obviously was not terrible, but it was definitely an inappropriate time and place.
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My middle name is ready. No, that doesn't sound right. I eat ready for breakfast.
Yeah, in my post above I just meant in the context of a party.
I didn't realize other people were following our conversation, but I am grateful they did - do you see now what I meant by how people just feel this kind of stuff intuitively? You don't see any dissenting opinions, do you?
I don't know what you consider dissent. I certainly see a mish mash of opinions, if that's what you mean. chas437 seemed to think the tap dancing was supposed to be interpreted as racist, where streets_behind differs. Deth seems to be the only one to say that tap dancing is culturally unhip (tragic if that's true).
Nobody has addressed my point yet about how disproportionate the reaction to the tap dancing was when Stuart was being a genuine biggot throughout the entire evening and everyone gave that a pass.
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You are still not getting it. The "racist" comment simply doesn't count.
What I am referring to is that nobody is saying that tap dancing is perfectly appropriate in that situation, and that they don't understand why the other party guests didn't appreciate it. What they are saying is precisely the opposite: that tap dancing is something you just don't do in that kind of setting, and that everyone's reaction was completely understandable.
Even if you still fail to grasp that aspect of the problem, do you at least understand Jessica's motivation, and why it's so painful to watch?
You are still not getting it. The "racist" comment simply doesn't count.
No, because it's inconsistent, period. It's too ridiculous and irrelevant. And again, not just me saying that, unless you fail to detect the sarcasm in "streets behind"s reply.
Aside from that, I have no choice at this point but to give up.
Maybe somebody else will be willing to continue.
Yes there was. The fact that she said 'Oh I can tap dance!' and then foisted it onto people.
Any performance would have been unwelcome, but tap dancing isn't particularly graceful, nor did anyone want to see it.
- We could be men with ven!
Have you spent any time in LA?
shareI think when you take into account the context of the scene her tap dance number was pretty pathetic and desperate. She takes nickels to her shoes, and was told to get down off counter by the host...and she wasn't really that good. Maybe for a middle school talent show but not at a party like that.
shareSorry, I'm late to the party here... you all both made some good points about the forced-in nature of the performance but the two other big things that people aren't mentioning here that made the performance especially awkward and "bad" in a sense (despite adequate technique) were that a.) she was performing to no music with a huge fake smile plastered on her face and b.) she climbed up and was dancing on her (most likely very expensive) bar.
shareDude they watched her scotch tape quarters to her shoes. she then stood on a woman's kitchen counter. it was totally inappropriate and awkward. she wasn't bad, but unless she was world class or something there was no way to sell that moment
sharefirst of all, i dont look down on tapdancing, personally, im not much of a dancer, so my opinion doesnt really matter either, i would probably have clapped a bit and be polite if i was there.
But she couldnt be like "oh you dont like tapdancing? well ok, then i will just sit back down", because that is rude and harsh from the hosts, besides Jessica was desperate for anything to try and impress them.
As a viewer you feel awkward for her, because she knew she lost their interest, but she still marched on bravely, so its just painful to watch her go on, as bad as it is, because she was doing fine.
But the point is, that Margot is the graceful kinda type i think, at least thats how she wants to come off, posh and glamour etc. And tapdancing is not a glamorous thing, it takes skill and is not easy to do, but its no ballet or sexy tango or something, i think that is what made them lose their enthusiasm for it.
That remark Andy makes was maybe racist, but that showed how much they cared about tap dancing, which is not much.
It was a bad joke used for the sake of saying something "bad" about tapdancing.
And gays just seem to get away with a bit more dirty talk than the average bloke, they might even have cheered if Andy stepped up and did a tapdance instead, because the whole prejudice is different.
Ive had a girl that tap danced in my class when i was at elementary school, personally i thought it looked a bit silly, but i apologize because dancing is just not my thing, so sadly i could be part of the ones that think its un-hip, but i dont look down on it, i see skills, but i dont get hot for it. And tap dancing is not always meant to be too serious, but its hard not to think of silly slapstick when you see someone doing it, but maybe thats just me. So sometimes im like, should i be laughing or not?
But yeah Stuart was being pushy and obnoxious, but i think his earlier introduction at the bar somehow left a vague but better impression on them, so he got away with a bit more, until his final joke. And Margot probably remembers Jessica as a bit more weird and pushy already, plus the posh clash, there wasnt much for Jessica to stay for eventually and she recognized that.
They both tried to make a good impression to get what they wanted, but they failed to make the cut.
anyway this post is way longer than intended :) but personally i wouldnt have acted the way did in the show, but that is just how things went, im not a posh bias, although i would look out for flying coins.
I felt sorry for her, then I wanted to throw her out along with Margo when she started to tapdance on her marble counter. That was a major eff-up.
shareyeah true :) i would not have liked that either
But yeah she did that because she pushed to impress, Margot was already worried about her floor, so that marble counter is definitely a screw up from Jessica, that is also where i would start worrying about the flying coins, which to my surprise never happened
It would be typical of the show if the coins ended up injuring somebody, but I'm glad it didn't happen. I rather liked the coins...like a good episode of MacGyver.
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As others have pointed out, it's not the tap dancing itself, it's the whole scenario. She went into a dance sequence no one asked for, and it was a tap dancing routine which wasn't bad per se, but wasn't great either. And it was made with coins taped to her shoes. The whole thing just reeked of desperation and insecurity and only having an immense talent would have saved her.
Allow me to make an analogy. If you start showing off your guitar skills to a group of people without being asked to, and all you do is play normal generic chords without anything special, it's the same thing. You're not playing badly, you're just not being great either and no one asked you to do that. It's very cringe-worthy.
But if you do the same thing, only deliver an insane guitar solo, your talent and skill overshadow the pathetic gesture itself and you impress people enough that they forget you did that out of insecurity.
So in our character's case, tap dancing isn't such a bad thing and her performance wasn't horrible, but it wasn't amazing either so the whole scene was ridiculous. If she had a famous tap dancing scene in a film and recreated that, allowing everyone to relate to it, they would have been impressed. But she didn't, so they weren't.
She went into a dance sequence no one asked for
Are you trying to get Stephen Merchant to use you as an inspiration for his next show? You don't seem to grasp social conventions.
Its not about being right or wrong, its about whats acceptable in a social sitting, and this usually depends not only on the act but the people involved.
You forget that the show demonstrates how shallow and hollow the whole LA party scene is. Those people and Jessica don't belong together. She always feels bored and like the odd one out. Remember the previous episode where she couldn't get her ditzy girlfriends to watch "Battleship Potemkin"?
The party people loved Amelia's crummy singing while they found tap dancing cringeworthy? Why didn't they find her tap dancing interesting enough to ask her to perform? Perhaps because they are just some blinkered tools who have no sense for anything a bit more sophisticated than singing a worn out musical tune?
And to prove my point: They threw Stewart out for a joke that was allegedly offensive? No, it wasn't! It was about hypocrisy that is everywhere. People pretend to love gays but how many call the f----s behind their backs? But these flamboyant party people were too dumb and shallow to get it. All they heard was the f and n word and cried like any other typical liberal flathead.
So yes, the whole episode is more of a reflection on the emptiness of the typical LA party scene where everybody wants to be somebody.