A Field Not in England


I'm sure on of the characters said they were in Monmouthshire which is in Wales. so surely it's a field in Wales not England.

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I think England was used synonymously with Britain in the past.

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[deleted]

No it wasn't. It was 'synonymous' only in the minds of liars and political enemies, after the Act of Union and especially in the 19th century, by those who controlled [and still control] public discourse. Vested interest is fully attuned to the importance of language. It knows well that if you avoid calling something by its right name it becomes anonymous and you don't have to other about it, which suits those who live off England down to the ground. The film is unknown to me. I gather it's about the English Civil War. There might conceivably be a legitimate dramatic explanation for a Welsh setting, if that is what it is, but 17th century England was an independent nation state [the oldest in Europe] and had been for the better part of a thousand years even by that time. Look to the history of the period, to the Diggers and the Levellers and the Puritans, to the endless, anguished debates about rights and morals and political justice, all of which invoke an Anglo Saxon past and hark back to early Common Law. I assure you Englishmen and women knew quite well who they were. 'British' they were not.

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By the same token, I guess Zimbabwe (for instance) was never known as Rhodesia either (except in the minds of 'liars' and 'political enemies' ("whose enemies?" one is bound to ask))?

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Prior to the creation of the Kingdom of Great Britain in 1707, the term "British" was one used solely to describe the pre-Anglo Saxon peoples of Britain (ie the descendants of the Britons), namely the Welsh and the Cornish. It is only after 1707 that the term began to apply to the English and the Scottish as well.

As I've pointed out elsewhere in this thread, at the time of the Civil War Wales was part of the Kingdom of England. In other words, Wales was in England, and therefore a field in Wales in the 17th century was also a field in England, in the same way that a field in Wales today is also a field in the UK.

Prior to 615: a field in Wales is a field in Britain
615 to 1535: a field in Wales is a field in Wales
1535 to 1707: a field in Wales is a field in England
1707 to 1800: a field in Wales is a field in Great Britain
1800 to present: a field in Wales is a field in the UK

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Are you mad? Zimbabwe and Rhodesia are the same country. England and Wales aren't. I'm guessing another American who can't read a map properly.

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And I'm guessing you're another highly-strung provincial dork who can't read English properly and blurts out inane but fashionable xenophobic insults as way of compensating for a lack of personality.

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There were three of us in this marriage
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Talking about xenophobia with an anti-semi and islamaphobic profile pic? stay clever, america

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Flinging nonsensical xenophobic stereotypes while both accusing others of xenophobia and displaying an embarrassing understanding of satire? Stay in school, halfwit.

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There were three of us in this marriage
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Lots of pretentious big words there, well done you.

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If you found any of those words big or pretentious, I'm embarrassed for you.

~.~
There were three of us in this marriage
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I know and Star Wars, not even filmed in space!

These film makers are trying to pull the wool over our eyes...

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Did you actually read the post before making this inane, unoriginal joke? He's talking about where the film was set, not where it was filmed.

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Monmouthshire has been historically ambiguous, though it is now Welsh. At the time this is set a lot of people considered it english. I thought it was a nice added layer to the general confusion.

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The second Laws in Wales Act of 1542 enumerated the counties of Wales and omitted Monmouthshire, which led to ambiguity as to whether the county was part of Wales or England.

~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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Monmouthshire has only been welsh since the 1970's

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Having consulted Wikipedia it does indeed seem as though Monmouthshire has had a bit of an uncertain identity over the years. Perhaps this is a clue to the meaning of the film; set in a place that is neither Wales nor England being a metaphor for people between life and death. Or maybe not.

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Well, if you think about it, as a civil war is going on all around, boundaries were changing all the time, depending on local lords and so on.
Us Welsh got involved a fair bit in the civil war, along with the Irish, who are represented by O'Neill in the film.
It all goes towards establishing uncertainty in the characters, I reckon.
But then, i could well be wrong.

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what a stupid thought.

By your thought-process then, 'Moon' should have been called 'Pinewood Studios set'.

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Brippy, no need to be so rude, you completely misunderstood what the OP was questioning.

One of the CHARACTERS said that they were in Monmouthshire, so that is where the story is set. Monmouthshire is in fact now Welsh, and has always been Welsh speaking, so the confusion is understandable.

In the movie Moon, I'm fairly sure none of the characters ever say 'we're at Pinewood studios'.

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Thanks coney_island_baby.

Yes indeed I was making the point of where the film is set, not where it was filmed, in comparison to the title. Brippy (and badgerboob) a bit like if in the film Moon there was a line of dialogue that said 'we're on Mars'.

Incidentally I didn't point this out because I thought it was a 'goof' but rather I fully expect that it was deliberate, either as a joke, to point towards a deeper meaning or encourage people to research 17th century geography.

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In 1535 the Laws in Wales Act created the county of Monmouthshire which, in terms of the administration of justice, was administered by the King's Bench in Westminster (as opposed to being administered by the newly-created Council of Wales and the Marches as was the case in the rest of Wales). In other words, it was indistinguishable from any English county as far as the administration of justice was concerned. But I think this is irrelevant here: at the time of the Civil War, Wales was part of the Kingdom of England, and contemporary Welshmen of the time would have considered a field in Wales to also be a field in England. Indeed, this would have been the case even in the latter half of the 19th century, over a century and a half after the Kingdom of England had ceased to exist. It is only since the end of the 19th century that it has become the norm to differentiate between Wales and England.

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I think the character said he was FROM Monmouthshire and had family in Gloucester (only about 10-15 miles away at it's nearest point)I don't think the field was said to be IN Monmouthshire.
That aside, and with some interesting historical facts being quoted on this thread, I'm not sure the comment that Monmouthshire always was (and still is) "Welsh speaking" is accurate. I live 5 miles away from the border and I have done all my life. I've spent a lot of time in South Wales, have friends and family there and thinking about it I can't recall ever hearing Welsh spoken in Monmouth ,or nearby Chepstow - either in the street, in the pubs or in the shops. I've only heard it spoken openly and naturally (ie. not for effect)in North Wales and then it was peppered with English terminology. My brother lived for years in The Valleys and loved it, but he never heard Welsh being spoken in everyday life and it initially amazed him that most of the Welsh people he worked with were openly critical of the amount of Welsh language TV broadcast in the region - which as a result they almost never watched.
I guess a century ago it may have been different in some parts (the border not being exactly set in stone over the course of several hundreds years) but to say Monmouthsire is, per se, 'Welsh Speaking' today is incorrect.

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I love folks like you that LIVE to split hairs on these posts and Youtube. I hope that you get work as professional fault finders. Lots and lots of ego. Maybe start an annual meet up, call it Analcon.

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