tonight’s episode...spoiler - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (2013) Discussion

[–] Mister Babadook (2621) 6 years ago

I dunno he clearly died, Mack showed up and told Gemma, then we see a plaque we are to assume for Fitz that says in memorial then it zooms out and it has Coulson's name on it. Then they start talking as if Fitz is alive in space frozen like he was when he froze himself to get to the future, and that Gemma intends to find him.

I have no idea how that is since they changed the future, why or how could there be another Fitz frozen in space? The whole thing confused me.

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[–] beith1 (364) 6 years ago

me too. it made no sense. it was a very rushed episode.

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[–] Mister Babadook (2621) 6 years ago

Also what happened to Deke? Did he poof out of existence since the future was changed? It didn't bother to even show or let us know anything if he was still there or if he was erased from existence.

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[–] beith1 (364) 6 years ago

i know! i was wondering about deke. also robin and her mom, who by the way, got everything wrong.

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[–] beith1 (364) 6 years ago

i really thought they would tie it in to iw.

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[–] blkknight1 (1) 6 years ago

It's a bit confusing but I figured it out follow along.
May 2017 team minus Fitz is brought to future. Fitz figures what happens and knows he needs to get to the future so freezes himself and is launches himself into space let's say in Nov 2017. Eventually he thaws and meets up with the team in the future (we see this in season). The team defeats the Kree in the future and goes back to the past to stop the earth from cracking. Let's say this is jan 2018 that they return to events transpire as we see them. Fitz dies.

Now this is the tricky part, the key is that the team was sent back to a time after Fitz had been frozen and launched. So the Fitz that was left behind and then froze himself is the one they are looking for.

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[–] Underdog_73 (755) 6 years ago

Now this is the tricky part, the key is that the team was sent back to a time after Fitz had been frozen and launched. So the Fitz that was left behind and then froze himself is the one they are looking for.

That theory doesn't work. I'm not saying that's not where they're going, but it doesn't work. The Fitz that came back with them is the same frozen Fitz. He reached them via the long way. Now, upon returning to the present, if there is still a Fitz frozen in space, there would need to be doubles of each and every person who came back. It just doesn't work.

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[–] FilmBuff (6652) 6 years ago

I don't follow. Why would there need to be doubles of every person who came back?

My understanding of their plan is: Fitz is alive in the suspended animation chamber. He'll remain there until he awakes in the future, at which point he'll help them get back to the present time. They'll locate him, and either:

A. Wake him up, tell him enough to prevent him from dying, then put him back to sleep in the pod.
B. Wake him up, replace him with a Fitz LMD that knows what to do to get them home.
C. Wake him up, bring him home, and then at some future point in time he'll say "bye" and go back into the chamber and save the day as before.

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[–] Underdog_73 (755) 6 years ago

Why would there be a double of Fitz, and no one else? Two Fitzes existed in the present, but only one of everyone else?

Not to mention the fact that since the timeline changed, there should be no Fitz in the chamber because now none of it happened.

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[–] FilmBuff (6652) 6 years ago

There would only be Fitz. Consider the timeline:

They're all at the diner.

Everyone but Fitz gets jumped to the future.

Fitz wakes, and after some thought, freezes himself.

Everyone, including Fitz, returns to the present.

Conclusion: everyone else "skipped" the present the first time around. Only Fitz remained behind, so only he had to get to the future "the long way." So only Fitz is overlapping, and living through a time period he already lived through, even though he was frozen while doing so.

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[–] Underdog_73 (755) 6 years ago

It's really not a debate anyone can win. Sincesbitsball basedbon theory. As far as I see it, it makes no difference whether they jumped aheadbor not. At that point they all caught up with one another. Time is now current for all the original team. They then come back. The same Fitz that was in the pod came back. He can't still be in the pod.

Regardless, even if that doesn't work for you, they changed that future. It no longer exists, so they were no longer taken, so Fitz never froze himself. No matter which current acceotable theory of time travel you choose, it doesn't work.

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[–] FilmBuff (6652) 6 years ago

Wouldn't he *have* to be in the pod? If not, how does he get to the future to get them home to change the timeline? Nothing they've done changes time before they returned home. The only changes in the timeline happen from the point at which Quake uses the Centipede serum. Fitz has to be out there in the pod. The question is-- can they retrieve him without changing the timeline again, but badly?

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[–] Underdog_73 (755) 6 years ago

The Earth wasn't destroyed. That future doesn't exist. The people that brought them to that future no longer exist. If they don't exist, they can't retrieve them. If they can't retrieve them, they don't vanish. If they don't vanish, Fitz doesn't freeze himself, since they're never separated. Even Robin said "something is different".

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[–] FilmBuff (6652) 6 years ago

So I think it comes down to how you see time travel working. Obviously in real life it doesn't, but it seems like there are two ways to see it.

1. Everything that has happened to you in the past doesn't cease to have happened if you go back and change something. Because if it did, you wouldn't go back and change it, so it would forever snap back and forth-- you don't change it, so you do, so you don't, so you do, etc. So in this case, all of that stuff happened, they went to the future, they came back, and now they've created a branch in time leading to a new future.

2. Everything that happens changes when you change the past. This is more problematic, due to what I wrote above. If the world never split, then they never had to go back and forth and fix it, but then, by not going, how would they know to fix it?

Anyway, I subscribe to the first theory-- a branch in time. So Fitz is still out there in space, but he will eventually wake up in the lighthouse in a non-split world. They may as well retrieve him. To play it safe, they can leave a Fitz LMD or something.

It's a lot harder for me to wrap my mind around the second theory-- the one that seems to be what you believe. If Fitz isn't out there in space, then how did Fitz get back to them?

Anyway, the more I write, the more convoluted it becomes, because in reality time travel isn't possible. Time isn't something that can be traveled. Saying "travel in time" is the same as saying "travel in arithmetic." Both are made up systems of arbitrary measurement. So yeah. I hope Fitz is out there.

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[–] beith1 (364) 6 years ago

i think when quake injected the serum instead of coulson it changed the timeline. since the earth wasn’t destroyed, the team never went to the future. fitz froze himself and sent himself into space to go to the future but it no longer applies so he is just in space, frozen. the team is now going to use the spaceship to go into space and find him.

they really need to explain what happened. it was a let down of what was a good season.

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[–] Xcalat3 (3701) 6 years ago

They better come up with a good explanation next season because the way the handled Fitz dead/Resurrection? and Deke's disappearance was not very satisfying to say the least. Plus I assume Coulson will be back some one next season as well so I still hope they use the Infinity wars finger snap and aftermath in someway to bring characters back.

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[–] beith1 (364) 6 years ago

agreed.

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[–] TandyMan (10319) 6 years ago

I couldn't follow none of the timey wimey BS. Crappy finale. There was magic wand stuff going on all over the place. Because the writers said so!!!

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