MovieChat Forums > The Summit (2013) Discussion > give the filmmakers some credit

give the filmmakers some credit

posted 10 years ago by ender342
10 replies | jump to latest

OK, so the Bonatti material was distracting and should have been the subject of a different documentary. But the photographic reconstructions were amazing. I don't know where they shot those scenes but they certainly could have fooled me if I hadn't known they couldn't be the actual location.

As to the climbers' choices, it's true that they had waited through a long period of bad weather but it's also true that that many people - in several parties - embarking on such a perilous climb is asking for trouble. If one or two of the parties had chosen to wait till the others returned they might have got their chance later. It was still early August.

I also wonder about that bottleneck. It's an obvious death trap and had killed before. Did no one ever explore the sloping rock ledges to the left that would have let them avoid the couloir entirely? (There is one bit you can't see that might involve a single rappel but that seems preferable to spending hours below a giant sword of Damocles.)

[–] melinda2001 9 years ago

I agree that it was visually realistic though of course you know it's largely reenactments. What I wonder is whether the real survivors were acting as themselves. If too many didn't, then they wouldn't match the original footage, unless there was none.

I have no expertise but the disaster looked to me to be largely due to a traffic jam of climbers who got piled together due to bad weather. Then with a window of perfect weather opening, I find it difficult to imagine how any one team would decide to go back and wait. It wouldn't seem fair to them, and I'd be surprised if many of them could wait that long. I suppose the teams that could most afford to wait should have done so, but those might have also been the ones with the greatest feelings of self worth. I hope that wasn't the case, but just like with car traffic jams, each one *is* the problem but to them it's everyone else. And just like with cars, when there are too many in a given space, what's needed is traffic control. The movie made it appear that anybody who wants to climb K2, simply goes and climbs. In the end, each is responsible for themselves.

[–] BlackDog123 9 years ago

I feel like the teams should have had a lottery system to determine whom should go first. It was really irresponsible for all of them to pile up at once, and the man who died first was literally trying to pass someone else on the single rope (not that I think he deserved death for that). It appeared that many of the climbers had made other attempts to get up the K2 that were not successful, so, as much as it would blow, it wasn't unheard of to get very close to the top but not actually reach it. Sorry, that's life, and it could possibly have saved many lives! Were the Americans still at the basecamp? They and (I think) one of the Dutch climbers were the ones who tried to take down the body of the first casualty, when one of them also slipped and fell to his death.

I wonder where they shot the re-enactments? My boyfriend was thinking Alaska. It was really beautiful! But after seeing this, I have no desire to ever engage in climbing anything so dangerous!

They're coming to get you, Barbara!

[–] melinda2001 9 years ago

Without any external traffic control, I don't think it was any more irresponsible for those teams to pile up than it is for a driver to be part of a traffic jam. I did a little searching just now and see that expensive permits are required climbing at least the most famous peaks. Nepal also plans to have liaison officers that stand guard at various camp stops along the trek to Everest at least. That seems mainly to provide official recognition of summiting, but I hope they will also help to police the traffic. No idea about K2. Of course in the end, this is all high risk stuff, so any lack of traffic control is simply another risk climbers must consider.

[–] BlackDog123 9 years ago

Continuing the analogy, while a driver in a traffic jam may not be directly responsible for the entire situation, there are certainly steps that can be taken to protect both themselves and other drivers ... why should something that already has such a high fatality rate be any different? There may not generally be enough climbers on K2 for official regulation, but I think common sense dictates that a large group sharing a single rope increases the chances of a dangerous delay. The team leaders should have taken more responsibility IMO (some of the climbers seemed uncomfortable with the number of people in that meeting where chores were determined). I generally positive attributes athletes have (determination, perseverance) worked against this group in this case, blinding them to the obvious increased risk.

They're coming to get you, Barbara!

[–] melinda2001 9 years ago

In a traffic jam, each driver really is responsible for the situation, because a traffic jam is made of nothing but individuals who insist on not changing their route. Of course it never feels that way. We always think *beep* I've hit a traffic jam", not "I hate to do this but

I read that it costs $70,000 just for a permit to climb Everest, and easily costs more than $200,000 total per person. I'm going to guess that for most people who pay those costs, their time involved is at least as precious to them. I have to imagine that for one of those people who invested so much time money and pain to get to the top camp, the idea of giving up your chance so that others will have a safer chance to summit would be a very difficult thing to accept. I doubt that many climbers could simply return to base and wait for another chance. You would probably have to give up until at least the following year. I'm sure they were not blinded to the increased risks, but were so deeply invested that that turning back just didn't seem like an option.

[–] Franny25 8 years ago

Black Dog, you said:

It was really irresponsible for all of them to pile up at once, and the man who died first was literally trying to pass someone else on the single rope (not that I think he deserved death for that).

But a better researched article in 2015 as well as other reports contradict the film's contention about Dren Mandic, the first fatality.

"At 8 a.m., climbers were finally advancing through the Bottleneck. Dren Mandić, from the Serbian team, decided to attend to his oxygen system and so unclipped himself from the rope, to let other climbers pass; unclipped, he lost his balance and fell, bumping into Cecilie Skog of the Norwegian team.[11] She was still clipped to the rope and was merely knocked over. Mandić, however, fell over 100 m (328 feet) down the Bottleneck."

If anything, Mandic was utterly selfless in unclipping himself.

For a film that had a clear agenda to deify another climber (the Irish climber), you'd think the filmmakers would have avoided smearing others without the facts. Bad enough that the filmmakers speculated unfairly and without any evidence about the Irish climber's alleged heroics, it did so by trying to unfairly and again without evidence make negative insinuations about the Italian climber.

Though with the confusing and amateurish directing, it's hard to follow anything. Something as simple as providing subtitles for those with hard to understand accents was neglected. I guess this is a reminder that even poorly directed and made films can win at Sundance if the subject matter is popular enough.

[–] Khumbu06 9 years ago

Although I've done only a little climbing myself, I follow it extensively. Particularly K2. There really is no way to avoid the Bottleneck, on the Pakistan side of the mountain. I've wondered for years why they don't find a way up through the rocks to the left, but with so many people wanting to avoid being under that enormous serac, I'm sure they'd have found a way if it were possible.

Inexperienced climbers don't flock to K2 like they do to Everest. When you're in the death zone, you can't just wait for the crowds to thin. Every hour up there you're losing strength, and the weather windows are brief and unpredictable. You've got to move when there's a window of opportunity. If you wait for the following day, you might not be so lucky.

The problem here was that the large Korean expedition was first on the fixed ropes, but they were slow and held everyone up. Slower climbers should step aside from the ropes and let the faster climbers pass, where it's safe to do so.

August is considered LATE for K2. Days are markedly shorter, and the weather tends to worsen at that time.

[–] Craig-Ashley 9 years ago

You can tell by the lack of responses to your post that it's bang on.

Is this the same film as 'K2 The Killer Summit'?

Every time I've seen this I've been totally aghast at the narcissistic talking heads and the bad production taste of the filmmakers. This is an ugly piece of work from top to bottom.

[–] rustynails30 9 years ago

I really enjoyed this film and have an interest in all 8000m peaks. Something of interest, my wife was in the opposite room and could hear the majority of the film as I watched it.She walks in and says why don't they use artillery and blow the serac off K2 if it causes all these deaths over the years,lots of places around the world use artillery on mountains to prevent avalanches.....I never really thought of that, and it's an interesting point.

[–] Craig-Ashley 9 years ago

Love it, brilliant idea! There's probably some decent minerals and ore deposits there too, they should get mining!