How are your freedoms being eroded? - Last Ounce of Courage (2012) Discussion

[–] Zanza8 12 years ago

Christians have to fight for their freedom to express their religion in an increasingly hostile society. We used to have the freedom to pray in school-now, thanks to an atheist lawsuit, we no longer can. The Muslims can, and the Jews, and the Wiccans, but let a Christian take out a Bible and the ACLU is on the job. The 9/11 cross is being attacked, even though it is not going in the memorial but the museum as an artifact that first responders prayed at. If it was a menorah that survived the blast, or a Koran, no one would mind, but it's a cross so it gets attacked. There are two crosses in San Diego, one on Mount Helix and one on Mount Soledad, that are landmarks and have been for decades, yet there is constant friction about them. And while the United States government defends Muslims desecrating the American flag and killing an American ambassador over a film on YouTube, Christians have to put up with exhibits like Piss Christ, a crucifix in a vat of urine. And that's okay, because we don't mind defending our freedoms. We understand that free speech is for everyone, even people who attack us while defending every other religion.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

reply

[–] spiritascent 12 years ago

That's okay, Zanza. You Christians had all of Europe and then America under your thumb for close to fifteen hundred years. You burned or exiled those amongst your own culture who dared to not believe, and you wiped out any and all other cultures that weren't already followers of Christ. South America and Mexico were, as a CONTINENT, raped by Christians, who destroyed their gods and replaced them with their own, or does none of that matter because it's ancient history?

So forgive us if we don't have much sympathy for Christians as they lose power. Perhaps if members of the church spent less time judging their fellow humans and feverishly protecting bigoted values leftover from the 1950s, they might last through the next few centuries.

reply

[–] Zanza8 12 years ago

So you're going to blame Christians today for what Christians did hundreds or even thousands of years ago? How does that even make sense? Do you also blame all Muslims for what happened on 9/11? Pick a date-either when they flew planes into the World Trade Center in the name of Islam eleven years ago, or when they attacked our people in the middle east and killed our diplomats this year. No, of course you don't blame all Muslims for what a few did in the name of Islam. You have your double standard firmly in place-hate all Christians forever for what some did, but give all other religions a pass, even though if you're going strictly by time, Muslims are more guilty because their crimes are more recent.

See, what you Christian-haters don't get is that all religions are plagued by episodes when so-called followers do evil in the name of God. And when you apply your double standard, you not only denigrate Christians, you approve of the violence perpetrated by the fanatics of other religions. If you really didn't want violence and hatred in the world, you wouldn't applaud it when it happens to Christians. You would apply an equal standard to everyone.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

reply

[–] spiritascent 12 years ago

I am intolerant of all religions, Zanza. They are a waste of resources and retard the growth of our species. I suppose that if one needs to have hope that takes the form of an omnipotent creator being, that's okay for a private belief, but the second that rules and false history are applied to this being and then shoved down the throats of those without the power to resist them...well, you get what we have here, today.

Anyway, if you read my post you'll see that I'm not blaming modern Christians for past atrocities, I simply have no sympathy for their current woes due to said atrocities.

reply

[–] Zanza8 12 years ago

I can respect your viewpoint, Spiritascent, although I do not agree with it, but I am curious if you have no sympathy for Muslims because of their atrocities against not only Christians and the United States, but also their own women?

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

reply

[–] spiritascent 12 years ago

My above post covers Islam as well. No sympathy...well, maybe for their brainwashed women and children.

reply

[–] stazza 12 years ago

hahahahha I love it when you guys bring out "the crusades"! Why... just last night I was galloping around the streets slaying sinners and non-believers with a large sword, setting fires to buildings that are not my churches and smashing heathen babies on the rocks, in my God's name, as my God TOLD ME to do DIRECTLY in the Bible. None of it was my idea.... I am Christian and therefore a death-wielding machine! hahahahahahaha it's always such an epic copout... the crusades... hahahahahaha

zanza had some of the best answers I've ever seen explaining what happens. My question is, why is zanza here posting stuff when they should be out killing and burning?? :D

reply

[–] spiritascent 12 years ago

So because The Crusades are ancient history at this point, they aren't relevant in discussions concerning Christian sympathy? Pope John Paul II himself apologized multiple times for atrocities that occurred during The Crusades. He wouldn't have done it if people weren't still inflamed over the matter. You don't see Germans telling people to "get over" The Holocaust...but one day, far in the future, they will.

I'm not trying to rail on Christian history, but I'll be damned (literally?) if I'm going to feel sorry for them for current, perceived slights.

reply

[–] Muinaiset 12 years ago

You do know that The Crusades started due to the Muslim Conquests, right?

www.last.fm/user/Muinaiset

reply

[–] spiritascent 12 years ago

It had to do with everyone wanting a piece of Jerusalem. But yes, Islam isn't any less to blame.

reply

[–] stazza 12 years ago

if people are DUMB ENOUGH to equate the crusades with ME, being a CHRISTIAN, HERE, TODAY.... then I guess they are dumb enough to think EVERY GERMAN is a jew killing nazi, every black guy is an escaped slave, and on and on.

I don't know (or care) why some pope is appologizing for something he had no part in. Should I appoligize for my ancesters slavery thing? hahahhaha I don't think so. This kind of association is just silly.

BUT, you have muslims (and others) blowing up stuff, killing people TODAY over their inability to accept others positions on things... that is TODAY, not 1000 years ago.. but we want to bring up the CRUSADES as an example of what christians are TODAY? I don't even think they were Christians... they were PEOPLE making bad choices and posting credit wrongly. ....but, I guess if that is the ONLY example of what true Christians are today, go ahead and live there. Kind of a shame you don't know any modern people.

reread my sarcastic post about riding through the streets slaughtering in the name of god... and try to "get it"
(in case you don't.... I'm not really slaughting anybody, and I beleive it is very wrong to hurt others -DARN my chirstian lifestyle! hahahaha)

reply

[–] spiritascent 12 years ago

Stazza, please re-read the thread. No one is blaming today's Christians for the Crusades. What I'm saying is, if Christians are looking for sympathy from non-Christians today, they shouldn't forget the often bloody history of their religion.

Those who forget the past...

reply

[–] CamberwickGreen 11 years ago

You're uninformed if you think 9-11 was anything other than an inside job.

Infowars, people.

reply

[–] docwho69 10 years ago

How is it a waste of time and resources to worship a proven God. Many as well as myself have seen proof of Gods existence. Have you ever seen limbs grow and Cancer be healed through prayer? I have. You should not mock what you obviously do not understand. By the way, statistically, atheists have the lowest IQ and that is a scientific fact. Look it up.

reply

[–] TerrorDementia 9 years ago

You have not seen limbs grow strictly through the power of prayer. You are a liar, or misunderstood what you think you saw. I'm going to go wit "liar."

If a missing limb ever regrew on a human, it would be one of the biggest medical stories in history. And that story of a miraculously regenerating limb doesn't exist, because it that limb does not exist.

When was the last time God gave an amputee their leg back? Never.

reply

[–] vanzant38 11 years ago

Raped huh.

Drama Queen. YES.

reply

[–] clearthinkernow 9 years ago

We're not talking about power, we're talking about freedom--the very thing this country was built on.

reply

[–] A_Real_Hip_Dude 12 years ago

These historical accounts are greatly generalized and vague, resulting in a lot of false history revisioning. Now I do agree that the church needs to be a beacon of love, but not because somebody hasn't explore history deep enough, but because its the right thing to do.

reply

[–] TheOneTrueJody 12 years ago

Zanza, your right to pray in school has not been taken away. Students are still free to pray before, during and after school -- just like Jews and Muslims. Any "restrictions" you see are against the government -- which your school administration is -- mandating what, even if, any prayers are said.

And the crosses in SD are on government land and paid for / administered with community tax dollars. The argument is that' s a form of government endorsement of one faith over another. If you replaced the cross with a giant Koran, you'll see why it troubles some people in the community.

The government is charged with defending private citizen's expressions of personal opinion, be it the Piss Christ, American's burning or otherwise destroying the American flag (which Muslims, Christians and Atheists have all done) or American's creating a movie that depicts Mohammed as a child molester.

You have the right to burn the flag or celebrate it any day of the week. Your freedom is not imperiled in the slightest.

reply

[–] emibel19 11 years ago

----
We used to have the freedom to pray in school-now, thanks to an atheist lawsuit, we no longer can. The Muslims can, and the Jews, and the Wiccans, but let a Christian take out a Bible and the ACLU is on the job.
----

That's simply not true. You still have the freedom to pray in schools and it doesn't matter what the religion is. The legal rulings in the US only apply to any state-sponsored religion in schools. The schools are not allowed to organize prayer, but they also cannot stop you from doing it privately. Christianity is no different from other religions in this respect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer

reply

[–] solex10 11 years ago

As well, Christians aren't being treated badly in the United States as much as Muslims and Wiccans are: Wiccans are still acted against, treated badly by Christians, and many times can't do anything that they want to. Plus, the culture looks at them badly in most movies and TV shows, as well as novels. Many have to keep the fact that they are Wiccan practitioners secret from their employers.

Muslims can't pray in airports for fear of being accused of planning a terrorist act, are assumed to be terrorists and arrested by airport security if their names match the same name of somebody else who's wanted for terrorism. They also are spied upon by agents provocateurs from the FBI using a version of Cointelpro to spy on the congregations of most mosques. And, people still pick on them and are racist to them-a sad prediction of what Malcolm X said to a group of people he met while on a pilgrimage to Mecca in 1964.

Compared to the first two, Xtian fundie bungholes like Zanza have NOTHING to complain about.

reply

[–] holbrookp 11 years ago

Well, then there's this, if it contributes anything to what you're discussing here:

http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=257304

"Truth is its own evidence." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

reply

[–] emibel19 11 years ago

That's just local bodies bring idiots and probably breaking the law.

reply

[–] solex10 11 years ago

Well, then there's this, if it contributes anything to what you're discussing here:

http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=257304

Sorry, but that's just more bullcrap without any real proof on your part.

reply

[–] imperiousleader 11 years ago

"We used to have the freedom to pray in school-now, thanks to an atheist lawsuit, we no longer can."

That's a lie. You simply can't have teachers use their positions to force students to pray the way they want, to the god of their choice. Christians typically see this as persecution because they take their majority status and dominance for granted, as their due.

"The 9/11 cross is being attacked, even though it is not going in the memorial but the museum as an artifact that first responders prayed at."

The cross itself is being physically attacked? By whom? And perhaps some people feel it's in exceedingly *beep* taste for Christians to hijack (pun intended) the gruesome massacre of 3000 people and lay claim to some esoteric understanding of a divine hand in it.

"And while the United States government defends Muslims desecrating the American flag"

The American flag is not a religious symbol.

"and killing an American ambassador over a film on YouTube"

Citation of which government official defended this?

"Christians have to put up with exhibits like Piss Christ, a crucifix in a vat of urine."

This photograph was meant as a comment on the crass commercialization of your religion.

reply

[–] THE_Tetsuo 10 years ago

And while the United States government defends Muslims desecrating the American flag and killing an American ambassador over a film on YouTube

Um, what?

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

[–] ksheyna-413-331802 9 years ago

Zanza, please tell me in what city have the dozens, if not hundreds of school children have been dragged out of their classrooms and thrown into jail for praying at school. Or better yet. post the video footage online. (Who doesn't have a cell phone with a camera nowadays?) No one has ever prevented kids from praying at school. You can bow your head over lunch in the cafe, or pray silent before a test; no one cares. What is objectionable, illegal, and against the US constitution is a school (government) official leading prayers. That includes teachers, principals, and coaches. The team can stand together before a game and pray, but the coach cannot have anything to do with it. That's not taking away any of your rights; it's upholding the rights of those who have a different religion or who don't wish to pray or have anyone else's religion shoved in their face. How would feel if your teacher was Wiccan or Muslim and demanded that you pray the way they want you to? Wouldn't you worry about curbing their freedom since you're the one who insists on teacher-led prayer in school?

As to the 9/11 cross...honey, that's not a cross. It pieces of the girders that held up the building. Check the plans for any good sized steel building anywhere in the world. You'll find the same shape because it's the most sturdy shape to hold up the weight or a building or wires or just about anything. Anyway, why are you complaining about 9/11? You're the one demanding religious freedom. Apparently their religion told them to fly the planes into the buildings. You never seem to care about stepping on everyone else's religious rights in the name of your religious freedom. They were insisting on the same rights you do, everyone else be damned.

You're also free to mount the 10 commandments in front of your church or your home any time you want; it's your property. You can paint bible verses all over your house, that's your right that has not been taken away. But public schools, city halls, court houses, and public belong to everybody; christian, jew, muslim, buddhist, wiccan, satanist, etc. If you think it's okay to push your religion on land that belongs to all, you should also accept a statue of Baphoment right next to it, or the Hindu monkey god. You are free to worship any god you want in your home and church, not in a public school. If you demand the right to have prayer meetings in public school, you have no right to object when your time for English lessons or math is taken up by a Muslim prayer or a Wiccan blessing. Since you do want freedom for religion, right?

reply

[–] midnite_rule 11 years ago

Well science is being thought in school (rather then science-fiction).
Also gay people are allowed to get married (rather then being stoned to death).

Thus, Christian values are being eroded, obviously.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world,
People with loaded guns and people who dig

reply

[–] wal1-1 11 years ago

You didn't really either: 1.) pay very close attention to the movie, or 2.) watch it at all.

Did you?

Didn't think so.

reply

[–] solex10 11 years ago

Who the frack wants to-it's bullroar anyway, just like the stupid preachers in the so-called 'ministries' that are stirring up all of this nonsense about 'persecution'.

reply

[–] griecor-1 10 years ago

you kidding about the sport right? you know that in many sports you can not express your religious belief anymore? if you do you need to pay, you get fined because isn't allow anymore. The movie, while is not true on many part, it doesn't go far away from reality since we are heading toward that direction. You can see already here by the comments made when people saying that is not a fact, well man movies express themselves without actual fact just make a point and i see many people to venerate them and said they were brilliant. So, this is movie is brilliant, yo may not like it because it goes against what you believe, that is ok, but it was so brilliant that many took the time to discredit so it already made their point across. That is the world we are living in...

reply

[–] BakedEel 10 years ago

No, it wasn't brilliant because it was terrible, people don't dislike because it goes against what they believe, they dislike it because it's cheap-looking, poorly scripted, badly acted and shoves the opinion of its writer down your throat. I don't have beliefs, I have knowledge. If you can't see what I mean, it's your loss.

[truth]I am bisexual. If you dont like that, you can blow me. If you do: same deal.[/truth]

reply

[–] clearthinkernow 9 years ago

I am not allowed to publicly stand up for my religious beliefs and to refuse to do anything that would compromise my beliefs. I am not permitted to board a plane without being man-handled and stripped of my shoes. I must display my purse's contents to strangers before I am permitted to enter certain places and cannot even bring a purse to any of our local stadiums. I am not permitted to display a sign in my yard for my conservative candidate for fear of property damage. Same is true for displaying a bumper sticker for said candidate. I am not permitted to stand up for my beliefs and fight indoctrination of the students at school. I am not permitted to let friends and neighbors know I have a gun. I cannot let anyone know I struggle with depression. I would like to add here at the end that I could have done or would not have had to do all of these things 15 years ago.

reply

[–] Cypher_Angel 9 years ago

Uh huh. You're a liar.

-----------
With trenches full of poets,
The ragged army, fixing bayonets to fight the other line

reply

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gengar843 8 years ago

"Erosion" is the wearing away over time.
When you ask "how are your freedoms being eroded?", you make the case that freedoms are NOT being eroded.
By asking the question, you imply that you wish they were being eroded.
I'm sure you do.
In that case, it is not freedom but rather hegemony being eroded.
Your big mouth is proof of it.
But if freedoms are being eroded, you likely will not acknowledge anything except a quick stark change, but that's not how freedoms erode.
Quick stark change is not erosion.
By contrast, you would claim YOUR freedoms are constantly in erosion, due to the other side eroding them.
Are YOU a conspiracy theorist?
Or is YOUR victimization more plausible?
So if the big bad wolf is after YOU, it is understood why you post at all.

reply