and if he does put down a lovely lady , do it without crass potty talk regarding some irrelevant youthful indiscretion. also not much is more 'grande' than the beautiful brunette on the patio, with the communist leanings.
bano de la universita
It wasn't pretty, but sometimes shock is what's required to break through hypocrisy and narrow-mindedness. A true friend keeps one honest, and I think that was the case here. Jeb put her in her place, no more and no less than it actually was.
I note that Jeb resisted elaborating, and that she pushed him to elaborate. So he did try restraint. He also said what he said completely without malice. And as we see later when they reunite in the park with the priests, she doesn't hold a grudge; in fact the opposite. He was not out to hurt her, and she values his honesty.
That lovely lady did not restrain herself from making unlovely personal slights on her own friends, directly and by implication. She didn't restrain herself from making up lies about her superior moral status when her own life was in "tatters" just as much as theirs, if not more. She was in fact a lousy mother and a lousy writer and she didn't actually do anything to make the world a better place. Jeb loved her just the same, and it seemed she knew that.
well I assume you are writing about jep.
the underlying theme of this movie is beauty, and the lady was as beautiful as anything in rome. also, by mentioning 'university bathrooms' jep lowers his own morals and track record of always being witty.
The scene demonstrates that Jep was not merely interested in superficial beauty. The lady, externally beautiful, exposed a decidedly ugly quality underlying it, a quality that Jep found repellant. She acted disgracefully. The scene revealed that, as much as Jep loved beauty, it was not a blind love. Its outer manifestation didn't distract him from seeing contrasting qualities that debase it.
Jep didn't have a track record of always being witty. In fact most of his remarks were not; they were sincere. In that extended monologue he had no intention of being witty. Being like that at all times is not admirable; it indicates a lack of depth and real engagement in life.
Rather than be witty, Jep was trying to speak the truth in order to humble the woman's cruel pretensions. His inclusion of her former pastime of bathroom sex was in line with this. She had callously implied that the people on the deck were contemptible and by comparison that she was morally superior. Jep's words were intended to remind her that her entire history was not morally superior in any way. To speak truth to a friend and come to the defence of other friends who she has abused does not lower one's moral status.
you make very good points and I appreciate your thoughtful replies. it may be a case of trying to insert my own (shallow) view unto the scene.
btw, this was my favorite scene in the best movie ive seen this year.i felt the lady made an easy target. also there are, obviously, much uglier things in rome.
personally, I'd let a lady like that get away with anything... than again his put down was poetic, like most of his dialogue and delivery.
Sfrsez, I owe you thanks for offering your thoughts and feelings about the scene in the first place. They inspired me to think more about it than before. I actually have much sympathy for what you call that "shallow" view, because Jep's reply was indeed harsh, and does stand out as one of the clearest expressions of what he most values and detests. Really, it exposes more about Jep than the lady.
I also share your enthusiasm for the movie, period. I just loved it. Enough that I just bought a copy, and I don't buy many movies.
Something else occurred to me that might interest you. The context of Jep's monologue shares a lot in common with his criticism of the performance artist during his interview with her. In both cases he was ruthless with pretension. A so-called artist is a phoney, and a so-called (self-called) model of righteous behaviour is too.
In a way the interview scene sets up the scene on his apartment deck. Because when Jep tries to evade answering his friend's insistence that he spell out his criticism - including insisting that she can take it - we know from the earlier scene (I think it's earlier) how he feels about pretension, and how he's likely to respond. So there's some suspense there.
Which brings to mind Jep's choice of a female companion in his old friend's daughter, the nature of that relationship. And the remark of one of his friends at the party, upon seeing her revealing outfit: "Our Jep is beginning to be a disappointment."
Lots to reflect on...
A rare pleasant exchange on this site, lll.
'and a so-called (self-called) model of righteous behaviour is too.' are you referring to Jep here?
Before tearing in Galatea, Jep mentions that they are better off just talking about trivial things and non sense. If they dig deeper, they might all turn to be a bit hypocritical.
"Our Jep is beginning to be a disappointment."
I felt this to mean that Jep didn't give her advice re her son. In general since he is older he doesn't waste as much time being nice and patronizing.
this is good advice at any age lll
I was referring to the beautiful lady on the deck. So first we have Jep reacting to the pretension of the performance artist, then reacting to the pretension of his friend.
I note that Stefania's comments began with a criticism of the youth of today. She claimed that as a student in the Arts Department she "oozed civic vocation." Wow! Just prior, Jep had been at Romano's apartment, where they'd witnessed a young couple in love. With a sense of wonder - beauty - he and Romano had watched them kissing. This was also when he said he was thinking of writing again, and although he denied Romano's feeling that something must have happened, clearly that something was news of the death of his first and only love.
So I think the experience of witnessing the wonder of young love, combined with news of his own love's death, meant that Jep was in a very different frame of mind than usual that evening with Stefania. Otherwise he might not have been willing to finally let go of being a gentleman, which he protested that answering truthfully would force him to do.
I think you are right that the woman was disappointed in Jep because he wasn't willing to speak to her son. I think that was the start of her turning against him, the primary thing. Seeing him with Ramona in that outfit at the party was a chance to find fault with him over something secondary and trivial. She was "persnickety" as his friend pointed out (supported by her snobby remark about Ethiopian jazz being the only kind she liked). She certainly wouldn't have made it any easier for her son's sanity. Maybe Jep wanted to avoid telling her that truth…
PS, for me the most beautiful lady was Ramona/Sabrina Ferilli. Different tastes!
Yes, Stefania is the the character, thanks.
You make a very good observation regarding the previous scene, and Jep's mood at the time of the 'confrontation'.
de gustibus non e diskutibus
notice not 1 paki on that roof, they could be discussing rat vomit and it would still be lovely
share1. "She was a promiscuous woman in college".
She was married now and she making her marriage work despite the homosexual husband...probably for the sake of her children which is admirable.
2. "Her writing was not important".
It does not have to be and it is fine to write even if the circumstances aren't noble. She still produced work.
3. "She is not raising her kid well".
She has provided a home and a great life of wealth and privilege which many children would trade places with...butler and all.
All Jep did was prove that she was not perfect...but she is still admirable because she tried.
She told her peers of her vision of the Great Beauty, and they rejected it.
Jep was meaner than necessary (it's the reason he can't find the Great Beauty). But he was correct in reminding her of her roots. He should've said, "Only eat roots from now on" but he hadn't learned that lesson yet