Better than Elephant.


This was a pretty amazing movie. I'm not even sure what to think about it, based on how abrupt that ending was. And what was with that silent, faceless film crew filming everything? Any idea what it all "means"?

Also, I love all the nods to classic films, especially during the end credits.

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Also reminded me of Bang Bang You're Dead (2002) - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0288439/. But this goes further, and doesn't get stopped in his plan.

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Thanks for the recommendation. I was also reminded of another movie called Archie's Final Project (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0492896/), with a similarly movie-obsessed character (although the comparisons end there).

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This was a good film... But it doesn't hold a candle to Elephant... I particularly disliked the end credits... They were movie references and they seem to be there just to be cool, and not relating to a film about a psychopath murderer. I think Matt, the guy who made the movie should have played down the flim passion of the protagonist because film guys tend to be rather sane... Movies are like medicine, watching a great film can make me happy on some of the *beep* days and remind me what there is to live for...

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I agree it wasn't better than Elephant and the ending was WEAK. It made me angry with the wanna be Sopranos cut to black ending. 2/10

Look at the night sky, where does it end?

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I don't think an extended shooting sequence followed by the death or arrest of Matt would have made a better ending. I think that the minimalist ending, in terms of the violence, was far better than including more violence or making more of the shooting explicit.

I also don't think that the ending was deliberately imitating The Sopranos (I think the very suggestion is silly).

You can, of course, give the film whatever rating you want, but I simply don't think a 2/10 is justifiable. Personally, I'd give Elephant maybe a 5 or 6 out of 10. I gave this a 7.

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It surprises me that you don't understand the ending credits. The Dirties is basically a film about making a film, so having credits that reference other films seems pretty easy to understand. Can you really not understand how the credits are completely sensible for this film?

I think your assertion about "film guys tend to be rather sane" is just absurd. Most people don't go around shooting people in the first place, but things like what was portrayed in The Dirties do happen. In the "basement tapes," the Columbine shooters talk about their plans and who they want to kill. Is this normal behaviour? No, of course not. It is normal for filmmakers or people who enjoy watching movies? No. Having said that, I don't believe it's any more abnormal for filmmakers or people who watch films.

I suspect that most convicted murderers have watched movies. To suggest that movies might be preventative medicine for murderers is kind of silly.

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"I particularly disliked the end credits... They were movie references and they seem to be there just to be cool"

That's a cynical way to look at it. Personally I loved the end credits and thought they made perfect sense contextually.

"I don't consider myself outside of anything. I just consider myself not around."

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no it wasnt.!!

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I liked it better than Elephant too, but Gus Van Sant's films are kind of strange and don't appeal to me that much (though I do like Drugstore Cowboy). The ending of The Dirties was the only part that I didn't particularly care for, but I thought the rest of the film was okay.

My only major criticism is that I had a hard time accepting that the film crew would follow Matt around as he decided to go to school and shoot people, even if they were only "the bad guys." I would expect the crew to either decide to tell an authority figure or, at the very least, refuse to get involved and follow him around as he murders people.

As for what it means, I think it's pretty straightforward: people who are bullied end up having revenge fantasies, which are violent fantasies. They do things to convince themselves that they're tougher than they are because being picked on has hurt their self-esteem. Revenge fantasies, for them, are both a way of getting payback on those who have harmed them but also at ultimately showing the world that they aren't helpless victims.

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Guess I'm glad some people like it, but I'm offended when people say it's better than Gus Van Sant's Elephant. Elephant is a *beep* classic. The Dirties is a low budget crap with no payoff (or, I should say, very little payoff).

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I'm with you in a sense that I liked this better than Elephant.

I enjoyed Elephant but the creative direction of making this a mockumentary and having the 2 protagonists just be your run-of-the-mill highschool goofballs, allowed me to connect with Matt & Owen than I did Alex and & Eric.

Not to mention the silly quality of the film made me feel more entwined as I felt I was watching my own highschool projects. They pulled that part of well.

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I'm with you in a sense that I liked this better than Elephant.

I enjoyed Elephant but the creative direction of making this a mockumentary and having the 2 protagonists just be your run-of-the-mill highschool goofballs, allowed me to connect with Matt & Owen than I did Alex and & Eric.
Right.

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I'd say that The Dirties is better. Gus van Sants' films come off as pretentious and are overly praised. The Dirties seems more honest (it's art without trying too hard to be art).

I can honestly say that I can't remember anything from Elephant except the shower kiss scene and the shooting. The Dirties made me think, made me laugh, made me really like the characters and it unsettled me. I love how it rides the line between funny and uncomfortable--far more memorable.



In regards to the faceless film crew, I understood it as a way of implicating the audience. We like to see these characters jest and have fun and ultimately we want to see what the final outcome is. So basically we are part of the crew.

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+1 for being better than Elephant, I remember Elephant being a bit of a snooze fest. I remember it having some good camera work, but other than that it felt really dull.

The dirties on the other hand kept my interest the entire time. It just felt so real. Good laughs, good serious moments. I especially like the bike riding scene with the Kid Kudi song. Really great scene.

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