MovieChat Forums > Vikings (2013) Discussion > And look what have you done with it

And look what have you done with it

posted 7 years ago by AgentSniff
27 replies | jump to latest

Yes, I have built it up from a small trading depot to a blooming economic centre, multiplied the population, raised the living standard and made avalible goods from all the known world. You have been humping girl young enough to be your daughter doing the warlord gig in your backwater village which has barely grown in almost 11 years. How did you spend the loot from Paris again?

But go ahead. Make Kattegat great again. I am sure the people and mr Hirst will completely ignore all the progress you made. By the way, how is that wall going? The one that will keep the Franks out of Denmark.

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

Erm not ro rain on your parad but Hedeby is the biggest Viking setlement during that time. Period. Yes its weirdly snobbish on Lagerthas side but I have a feeling we lack some of the background politics that sustained Lagerthas comment. I hope we get to see some of that as the conflict of queens progresses.

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

But for the record. Hedeby was a seat of Kings and not a seat of Jarls. Violently ahistoric sh!t.

[–] AgentSniff 7 years ago

That's true, my well read friend, but that's the real Hedeby. Not the one we have seen in the show. Kind of a let down. I mean, no Danavirki and where is the coastline. But obviously they are hidden by the mountains of Denmark.

I don't like the direction of Lagertha's character

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

The only thing I am gratefull for is that they didnt throw in Ansgar into the mix. Hedeby and its early stonechurch would have been a natural spot to introduce him. I was half afraid they´ve had Ragnar convert to christianity while he was gone via Ansgar too...

[–] AgentSniff 7 years ago

No, Ansgar was killed by Aslaug in season 3. Why they had to call the missionary guy Ansgar is beyond me. If they wanted to use Ansgar it he should pop up about now. If they are going to address Harald's conquest of Värmland, they would have to address the Swedes. Having Ansgar doing mission in Hedeby and then going to Birka would involve him naturally in the storyline. Björn taking sides with the Swedes could earn him his crown, taking over when the Swedish king dies in battle, founding the Munsö-dynasty. Just ideas.

But I digress.

We know from the preview that Lagertha will attack Kattegat. I mean, Lagertha was a returning hero when she helped driving out Borg, but when she is the invader? I don't know. That would not be good PR. Not unless Aslaug has done some bad *beep* to the people. Which we seen or heard none of.

[–] xxpo 7 years ago

We know from the preview that Lagertha will attack Kattegat. I mean, Lagertha was a returning hero when she helped driving out Borg, but when she is the invader? I don't know. That would not be good PR. Not unless Aslaug has done some bad *beep*

What were the CUSTOMS back then???

Was it UNREASONABLE for LAGERTHA to suggest that she SHARE the HONOR of giving HER SON BJORN a GOING AWAY PARTY and wishing him a SAFE VOYAGE with the SACRIFICE???

WHY did THE BROOD MARE get so COCKY with her and REMIND HER she's forgetting she's THE QUEEN???

Does LAGERETHA have the RIGHT to feel INSULTED by not even being INVITED to this GOING AWAY PARTY for her SON???

Was THE BROOD MARE WRONG to not invite her to it???

The biggest surprise was how BJORN was also SURPRISED to see his mother there.

Why didn't he also think to INVITE her to his GOING AWAY PARTY or remind THE BROOD MARE not to forget to invite her to it???

Perhaps THE BROOD MARE is the one who's done some bad BEEP by refusing to let LAGERTHA be a part of the SACRIFICE for her OWN SON???

🐇 🐰

[–] AgentSniff 7 years ago

The custom was that the person of highest rank held the sacrifice. Not performing it could mean severe backlash from the people. This became an issue when the kings became christian as the people still expected them to sacrifice. Bad harvests could mean the leaders themselc endef up as sacrifices to please the gods.

So no, Aslaug did what was expected of her as the political leader of the community.

[–] xxpo 7 years ago

The custom was that the person of highest rank held the sacrifice.

Since BJORN is NOT the SON of The BROOD MARE, then the person of HIGHEST RANK would be LAGERTHA.

Right???

Because BJORN also grew up in HEDEBY.

And RAGNAR was NOT THERE.

So by rights shouldn't this PARTY also have been HELD in HEDEBY.

Because THE BROOD MARE also has NOTHING to do with this matter and HER SON is merely a PASSENGER on a VOYAGE that was PLANNED by BJORN.

Thus also leaving there NO REASON why a CELEBRATION should have even been held in KATTEGAT.

🐇 🐰

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

Realy? that was Ansgar..? lol thats crazy. Btw your outline would have been nice to see unfold. I guess Hirst isnt raly interested in the Geo-political aspect of Scandinavia during that time wich is weird since he basicly turns "Vikings" into grunts who are mostly either plundering or killing eachother byignoring the politics of that time. Where are the Slavs on Vikings annyways? BEyong Ragnar buchering some randomn people with Rolo in "The Baltic" I dont think we´ve ever seen or heard them mention them ever again. The show could any by all accounts should have spent much more time with microcosm and less with macrocosm and Hedeby would have been the exact right spot for that.

[–] Zanza8 7 years ago

Ragnar didn't build up Kattegat from a small trading depot to a blooming economic center, multiplied the population, raised the living standard and made available goods from all the known world. Aslaug did that. Not that Lagertha has done any better, sexing and killing her way to the top and then doing nothing more than humping a girl young enough to be her daughter.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

Thats just not true. Kattegat is everything because of Ragnar. His wealth and fame attracted traders and enabled those that had gone raiding with him. Aslaug hasnt done much if anything at all. The one thing she was supposed to take care of failed horribly with other people paying the price in blood.

[–] xxpo 7 years ago

Thats just not true. Kattegat is everything because of Ragnar. His wealth and fame attracted traders and enabled those that had gone raiding with him. Aslaug hasnt done much if anything at all. The one thing she was supposed to take care of failed horribly with other people paying the price in blood.

BRAVO WIND!!!



WELL PUT!!!

IT's the PARIS TREASURE that brings people to KATTEGAT.

And RAGNAR was also THE ONLY ONE who finds a way to GET INSIDE of PARIS so he could bring that TREASURE BACK to KATTEGAT.

WITHOUT that LOOT, no one would GIVE A HOOT about the place.

The problem of course is the way the TREASURE ALSO comes with a CURSE ATTACHED to it.

As in MORE, GIVE ME MORE, GIVE ME MORE ...

which are also The OPENING LYRICS of the SONG that we hear at the beginning of EACH SHOW.

And this is also why THE SEER blames the CALAMITY that's about to FOLLOW on RAGNAR.

And the CLAMITY that FOLLOWS is THE END of an ERA when THE VIKING GODS take TOP PRIORITY in THE VIKING CULTURE.

🐇 🐰

[–] Zanza8 7 years ago

Thats just not true. Kattegat is everything because of Ragnar. His wealth and fame attracted traders and enabled those that had gone raiding with him. Aslaug hasnt done much if anything at all.

You have to do much better than that. Anyone can look at the show and see that Kattegat was like an Iron Age trailer park when Ragnar went on that last raid to Paris. Anyone can look at the show and see that even he barely recognized the place when he came back. Logically, since Kattegat was not built up in all the time Ragnar was king, he is not the one who built it up. And logically, since Kattegat only improved in the time Ragnar was gone and that's when Aslaug was in charge, she is the one who improved it. You don't like Aslaug, fine. You're entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts. The canon of the show established that Kattegat was a little fishing village when Ragnar left for the last time, that Aslaug was in charge while he was gone, and that while he was gone and she was running the place, it became a thriving prosperous trade center.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

I dont need to make up facts. You actually are the one who does that when you claim Aslaug build anything wich there is no indication of whatsoever. But she doesnt own the houses in Kattegat and she didnt build those either. The houses build in Kattegat where build by the peolpe who had gone on succesfull raids with Ragnar. They came back wealthy and could afford to build houses and commerce with far away regions.
It stands to reason there hadnt been ANY raiding while Ragnar was gone. Bjorn even had to build a new fleet for his upcomming journey so somehow Aslaug managed to not take care of Ragnars ships (And he had his own fleet after all).
I am willing to believe Aslaugs keen mind made her a decent ruler when it came to sitting as judge and everything and she probably is good with the ceremonial things too but the wealth that enabeled growth came with Ragnar and with Ragnar alone.

[–] Zanza8 7 years ago

I am willing to believe Aslaugs keen mind made her a decent ruler when it came to sitting as judge and everything and she probably is good with the ceremonial things too but the wealth that enabeled growth came with Ragnar and with Ragnar alone.

That is true. But Ragnar didn't do anything for Kattegat with his wealth. When he left, Kattegat was the same small village it had always been. When he returned, it was a thriving prosperous hub of trade. Aslaug did that. And why should anyone care about going off and raiding when people are willing to come to Kattegat and pour wealth into their hands? Aslaug isn't a raider, she doesn't care about ships. She cared about bringing people in to trade and everybody was better for it.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

Kattegat hasnt been a small village for years. It was prospering and growing ever since the first Paris Raid. The walls dont apear any more impressive then years ago when it still was "Jarl Ragnar" and THEY would actually be something for a king to build and/or maintain. And again....that had nothing to do with Aslaug and everything with Ragnar and the wealth he put into the hands of his people.
the people who came back rich build the houses and everything. I dont even quite understand what you think Aslaug "did". Her part is pretty much ceremonial and if she hasnt maintained the ships properly then she isnt even involved with the trade and commerce part.

The two main aspects she could and probably should have invesnted in (Ships and defense aka Walls) look no different then before.
the parts she had no part in (Trade/commerce and private housing) all prospered through the wealth Ragnar put into the hands of these ungratefull bastards.

I´d argue Aslaugs main archievement is not killing any more children and friends of the family. Hooray for that then.

[–] Zanza8 7 years ago

You will have to agree to disagree on this point. Anyone can look at the show and see what Kattegat was like when Ragnar was in charge, up until the point he left for the raid on Paris. Anyone can look at the show and see what Kattegat was like when Ragnar returned after his ten year tantrum. It was bigger, more built up, there were a lot of traders coming and going. If you think that people are going to believe what you say rather than what their eyes can see on the show, no amount of reason and logic is going to make a difference to you.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

I see. You didnt even try to answer the question. I am all for reason and logic but you realy fall short on both accounts especially if you dont even bother to answer a rather simple question.

And btw we realy see very little of Kattegat and its buildings. They (clearly for budget reasons) keep the camera pretty close on the actors not giving us much to see beyond the close space. There are a handfull of instances where we actually see something that allows us to get an actually impression of the place. One was the raid of Ragnar on Kattegat when he returned to take out Jarl Borg (when we see them sneak around) and now recently when we see what I guess is supposed to be the market place. Beyond that its usually either the harbor that hasnt changed much or interior shots that dont show us sh!t.

Either way all of that is moot if you cant even tell people what you think it is Aslaug did. You apear to agree that the wealth came from the raids and obviously you cant honestly believe that Aslaug actually build let alone owns any of the private homes and shops. The wall isnt one bit more impressive than it was years ago and neither is the harbour and Ragnars ships apear all to be lost. So I repeat my question. What is it you think Aslaug actually did that makes her so fantastic to you? Not ruin it for everyone?

[–] xxpo 7 years ago

And again you dont even adress my simple question. This is bordering on trolling realy.

In case you're not aware of this ...

Richildis is a SOCK PUPPET ACCOUNT ...

one that appears each time your debate opponent backs themselves into a CORNER they can't get out of and feels the need for some support.

If you check the posting history, that will also become CLEAR for you, how this is MERELY a SOCK PUPPET ACCOUNT of the other poster, one that also APPEARS and ECHOES or REPEATS BACK EVERYTHING your OPPONENT has said.

This is also the reason why it also only has 4 PAGES of POSTING HISTORY for the past 5 YEARS

(and most of it also contains messages posted to the VIKING FORUM in support of what your DEBATE OPPONENT says).

Other's who are regular posters here have also seen this happening MANY, MANY TIMES BEFORE.

And RICHILDIS also isn't the ONLY SOCK PUPPET account your debate opponent uses either.

And NONE of them will ever ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION because to do so would also PROVE the point you've made.

So instead of ADDRESSING your QUESTION as to WHAT THE BROOD MARE did ...

these other SOCK PUPPET accounts get PUT on PARADE ...

as a way to try and DIVERT ATTENTION away from the way that you've GOT THEM CORNERED and CHECK MATED ...

and have WON the DEBATE with them.

Because there's also NO PROOF WHATSOEVER in the show that this HOMEWRECKING ALCOHOLIC DRUNK,

who sits around feeling SORRY for herself,

and for the way that her LOVER BETRAYED HER,

did ANYTHING to IMPROVE ANYTHING.

RIGHT before SIGGY dies saving the life THE BROOD MARE's 2 OLDEST SONS ...

she also POINTS OUT how she was NEGLECTING her DUTIES as a RULER to her PEOPLE and to her SONS ...

by CHOOSING to spend most of her time having SEX with her LOVER in the FISH HUT.

Did anyone NOTICE how THE BROOD MARE was WEARING a FISH NET on her HEAD during the going away party for BJORN???

Remember how FLOKI also MAKES FUN of her when he TORMENTS RAGNAR telling him how the ENTIRE VILLAGE said she always SMELLED like FISH???

WEARING a FISH NET to SHOW OFF her NAKED BODY was also the way that she SEDUCED RAGNAR in the FIRST PLACE.

But this time when she wears it she doesn't look the least bit SEDUCTIVE, because she also LOOKED more like a CREATURE from the BLACK LAGOON.



🐇 🐰

[–] xxpo 7 years ago

again....that had nothing to do with Aslaug and everything with Ragnar and the wealth he put into the hands of his people.

the people who came back rich build the houses and everything. I dont even quite understand what you think Aslaug "did".

BRAVO WIND!!!



NICELY PUT!!!

KEEP up the GOOD WORK!!!

The ONLY thing THE BROOD MARE ever did was lay on her BACK and make SONS for RAGNAR.

And after she was DONE doing that ...

she CHEATS on him with another MAN who CHEATS on her ...

and then PROCEEDS to become the ALCOHOLIC she's become now ...

just like ROLLO did before HER ...

when he also BETRAYED the TRUST of RAGNAR and the faith he had in him.

But as you see your WORDS are also WASTED when you try to REASON with someone who CAN'T be REASONED WITH:

ILLOGICALLY, they also ATTACK YOU for YOUR OPINION, by claiming THEIR OPINION is a FACT.

It's a "DO AS THEY SAY but NOT as THEY DO THEMSELVES" situation that one has encountered MANY, MANY TIMES before HERE at this forum.

What they say is RIGHT.

What EVERYONE else has to say who DISAGREES with them is ALWAYS WRONG.

And even WHEN what they've said has been PROVEN WRONG, they also NEVER ADMIT IT.

In other words, it's a complete WASTE of TIME to try to reason with someone who is this UNREASONABLE and is this IRRATIONAL.

SEE the problem here???

See how they've TWISTED what's been said ...

and now try to say that YOU'RE the one who is being ILLOGICAL and IRRATIONAL

when they're also the one who is behaving that way with you???


🐇 🐰

[–] Richildis 7 years ago

But only because Ragnar was gone. Ragnar had been making them rich raiding for quite some time(or he SHOULD have been, yet somehow it didn't show) and yet it remained pretty much the same backwater looking dump the entire time he was earl/king. It was only after he was gone that the place showed any growth. It started in a minor way when he was AWAY in Paris the first time, again one could say encouraged by Aslaug, because she was ruling in his stead while he was away and then ill. And clearly it was Aslaug who was ruling in his stead all that time he was gone, which encouraged that growth, not him.

He had plenty of time for Kattegat to show real advancement and yet it didn't. Aslaug's rule was clearly better for business, whatever Ragnar's "name" might do, he wasn't there, she was and she kept it going for years.

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

Again dont keep it this "fuzzy".
What is it you think Aslaug "did" "do" to do any of that. The only thin she would be directly responsible are the public building including the city wall, harbour and the grain silos. None of THAT has shown any sign of improvement from what I can tell.
The private owned buildings have both incresed and look wealthier. none of that however has anything to do with Aslaug and everything with the wealth Ragnar brought to everyone.

So be specific here for once please. What is it you think Aslaug "did".

[–] Zanza8 7 years ago

Ragnar had been making them rich raiding for quite some time(or he SHOULD have been, yet somehow it didn't show) and yet it remained pretty much the same backwater looking dump the entire time he was earl/king. It was only after he was gone that the place showed any growth. It started in a minor way when he was AWAY in Paris the first time, again one could say encouraged by Aslaug, because she was ruling in his stead while he was away and then ill. And clearly it was Aslaug who was ruling in his stead all that time he was gone, which encouraged that growth, not him.

He had plenty of time for Kattegat to show real advancement and yet it didn't. Aslaug's rule was clearly better for business, whatever Ragnar's "name" might do, he wasn't there, she was and she kept it going for years.

Exactly. What good did Ragnar do getting all that gold when all he did was sit on it and not spend it for the betterment of his people? He was as bad as Earl Haroldson in that respect, although at least as far as we know, Ragnar didn't murder any children to guard the gold. He wasn't a leader at all, just a home invader with the title of king. Aslaug was the true ruler, the one who used the gold to better the lives of the people she was in charge of. No wonder no one was happy to see Ragnar and the seer said they should curse the day he came back.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

And again you dont even adress my simple question. This is bordering on trolling realy.

[–] xxpo 7 years ago

As you can probably see by now ...

it's a complete waste of time to try and reason with the poster who keeps insisting they're RIGHT and that what you say isn't so.

When they say this for example:

since Kattegat was not built up in all the time Ragnar was king, he is not the one who built it up.

They completely IGNORE the FACT that RAGNAR never STOPS being KING, thus also making this STATEMENT completely ILLOGICAL.

IF he WASN'T STILL KING of KATTEGAT he wouldn't have CHALLENGED them to KILL HIM so whoever WON could be KING.



And KATTEGAT only becomes a TRADE CENTER because of him and because of THE LOOT that he brings back from PARIS.

And NO ONE would have gotten that LOOT if RAGNAR had NOT TRICKED his way into PARIS.

Because the others also TRIED to GET INSIDE using THEIR OWN PLANS and and ALL of them FAILED to do so.

Without RAGNAR, NO ONE has NOTHING.

KATTEGAT remains a small village.

Then they make this FALSE CLAIM:

And logically, since Kattegat only improved in the time Ragnar was gone and that's when Aslaug was in charge, she is the one who improved it

.

There's NO LOGICAL REASON to assume this ALCOHOLIC BROOD MARE ...

who sits around BROODING and DRINKING just like ROLLO did for 4 YEARS after he BETRAYS RAGNAR ...

was IN CHARGE of or had anything to do with the IMPROVEMENTS made to the town.

The only thing on her MIND is the SAME KIND of SELF PITY that ROLLO had for himself when he also STAYED DRUNK all of the time.

THE WRITER for the show has also indicated in an INTERVIEW that UBBE was the one in CHARGE of running things

(which is also ODD when one would also assume his OLDER BROTHER BJORN would have been the one in CHARGE during the absence of their father).

And then comes this OH SO PREDICTABLE REACTION from them, which many other posters who also disagreed with them have also gotten back from them:

You don't like Aslaug, fine. You're entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts.

NOTHING they'd said to you is a FACT.

It's only THEIR OPINION they've put forth.

But ILLOGICALLY, they also ATTACK YOU for YOUR OPINION, by claiming THEIR OPINION is a FACT.

It's a "DO AS THEY SAY but NOT as THEY DO THEMSELVES" situation that one has encountered MANY, MANY TIMES before HERE at this forum.

What they say is RIGHT.

What EVERYONE else has to say who DISAGREES with them is ALWAYS WRONG.

And even WHEN what they've said has been PROVEN WRONG, they also NEVER ADMIT IT.

In other words, it's a complete WASTE of TIME to try to reason with someone who is this UNREASONABLE and is this IRRATIONAL.



🐇 🐰

[–] larosat 7 years ago

Tell me about it. I've never seen a poster who can never be wrong, always likes the worst character instead of the most popular and absolutely insists everything they say is the gospel truth. Talking to them is like talking to an angry wall.

[–] wind_of_rage 7 years ago

Well he/she/is has withdrawn without further replies. I take that as a win.
Im not gonna say I am very good at loosing a debate but it has happened once or twice and since most üeople here are just as bad at winning a debate as thsy are at loosing them I generally withdraw too. Now since I tend to do that if the other side is to much of an idiot that may cause some confusion but Ill never meet any of these guys in the real world so who gives a damn right?
Now all that in mind I quite enjoy an argument as long as both sides actually adress the point I make. If that happens its even fun to be wrong or not agree about something but when people start cherrypicking one point out of 20 you made in a somewhat thoughtfull post abdmignore the rest and then they keep bashing at that one maybe even not very central point of ypur argument you can drive me nuts and I have trouble to keep my language in check. Especially of I feel I made a good point and that gets ignored completely in fabor of that other point I often get the impressions these people are just rolling but I suspect usually these just arent very bright people at all. They REALY dont get it...sad but true.