MovieChat Forums > Frozen (2013) Discussion > Does Elsa make sense as a character?

Does Elsa make sense as a character?

posted 7 years ago by ira_gaines
12 replies | jump to latest

I recently saw Frozen for the first time and although I enjoyed it, I did feel there was something off about the way Elsa was written. When I heard later that she was originally intended to be a villain it started to make more sense. The actions that she takes in the film should require her to be a more antagonistic character. Not necessarily a villain, but at least something in the mold of Beast from BatB. That's not how she portrayed though.

She never even gets that angry at any point in the film. This undermines the drama somewhat for me since Elsa really is the focal point of all the conflict in the film. The resolution indicates that Elsa can control her powers through love. So does this mean that she didn't love Anna before? She's surprised that Anna would sacrifice herself for her, which kind of suggests that Elsa wouldn't be willing to do the same. This isn't made clear though. What exactly is Elsa and Anna's relationship at the time of the coronation? From what we're shown it's very possible they haven't spoken for 10 plus years and the fact that Anna is surprised she talks to her at the party makes that very possible. Again though, they don't commit fully to anything because they still throw in a couple of lighthearted moments between the two there. It's like they're desperate to keep Elsa likeable no matter what she does. She's made the main source of antagonism in the film without actually being antagonistic?

[–] scottlyle 7 years ago

Elsa froze Anna's head at the beginning, so they took the memory of Elea's powers away from Anna. Presumably if Anna remembers Elsa's powers then she will be refrozen. Elsa is also told that "fear is your enemy." So now Elsa is afraid she'll hurt Anna if Anna finds out about her powers, but she also can't control her powers because she's afraid. So Elsa distances herself from Anna. Anna doesn't know any of this but still wants to be close to Elsa, which is one source of conflict.

Elsa loved Anna the whole time, but was also afraid of hurting her. The fear is why she couldn't control her powers.

Elsa is surprised at Anna saving her because she spent the last 10 years trying to distance herself from Anna (for Anna's safety) and she's surprised that Anna would still stick around after that. Elsa didn't really understand what reciprocating love from her sister felt like until that point.

All that means that Elsa isn't really the antagonist, her fear of hurting Anna is. That fear is justified given all she was told about the original accident. Because the antagonist is kind of abstract and this is a film for children they added the Hans and Duke story lines to have some tangible bad guys.

[–] UnvoicedApollo1 7 years ago

She gets angry several times during rhe movie. When Anna berates Elsa, during let it go, and when Anna refuses to leave.

[–] Thornspike 7 years ago

That's so cool for me today to hear from someone who JUST saw the film. Glad to hear you enjoyed it.
There is a treasure trove of clues and discussions and opinions regarding the relationship between Elsa and Anna. You are correct to begin to question the motive and backstory of each. I recommend simply watching the movie again and their basic relationship will become clear. But yes, they have been estranged since Elsa 8 and Anna 5. Maybe seeing each other in a hall but that's about it. Big castle. Anna has been ignored and alone wandering about the courtyard for 13 years longing for people. Elsa was even more isolated.
About Elsa, we see different emotions from her throughout the movie. She gets frightened when Anna jumps too far ahead and Elsa is horrified by the head injury. Fear and concern at the trolls. After the warning, Elsa tries with all her might to control her emotions so no, you are not going to see her get angry. After the coronation at the ball Anna catches Elsa in a very relaxed good mood. Elsa made it through the ceremony and now all she has to do is stand there for the rest of the evening and she'll be free to live in isolation in the castle for the rest of her life. I don't think Elsa really knows what to do about Anna except even though Elsa loves Anna, Elsa probably thinks it would be best if Anna goes and marries and lives elsewhere. Elsa's biggest concern is an heir and that's further down the road. So when Anna recommends bringing 13 men into the castle to live with them Elsa freaks and when pressed Elsa snaps. That is when we see her anger over her situation. She is not just angry at Anna for bugging her she is angry that her lot in life is thus.
Elsa's fear of hurting anyone is a much stronger emotion than Elsa's feeling of loving.
It's the old idea of learning with positives instead of negatives. Instead of negative teaching saying 'Don't do this' (Don't feel) instead, teach positively 'Do This' (love).

Hey what did you think about the musical score or the songs?

[–] ira_gaines 7 years ago

I agree with some of that but it still leaves a lot of questions open. How is Elsa supposed to rule a Kingdom when she can't even have a normal relationship with her sister? That would involve a lot of emotional hardship and fear. The fact that she's willing to take on this responsibility while ignoring her sister makes it look like she just doesn't feel anything for Anna anymore. There are other things as well. We never see her express any real regret at her distant relationship with Anna, or the fact that she will never see her again after she runs away. Probably the worst instance of this is when Elsa freezes her heart and then immediately throws her out of the castle. If you just compare Elsa's actions with Anna's in the film, Anna looks like a saint and Elsa like a villain/ tragic villain. My problem is that her personality doesn't match. Even the scene where Anna and Co were walking beside the sharp iceicles looks totally like it was setting up for Elsa to be revealed as a villain e.g. Where Olaf says that he bets she's the nicest person ever and then immediately gets impaled.

[–] UnvoicedApollo1 7 years ago

But that's exactly where the conflict comes into play. Elsa fears hurting Anna so much that she isolates herself but Ann doesn't know this and does feel like Elsa doesn't care for her.

Elsa: What do you know about true love?
Anna: More than you. All you know is how to she shut people out.

There is genuine shock & hurt in Elsa's expression when this is said.

Also study her expressions during Let it Go. Those are not ones of pure happiness but an emotionally conflicted person.

[–] cheedo 7 years ago

She does get angry, but was taught to repress it.

But my problem is how she feels a little too simple. Like, they seemed to have left out a lot of personality aspects. Anna and Kristoff have a lot of flaws as well as positive traits and some neutral traits (Anna loves to eat, Kristoff sings to his reindeer, etc.- things that round out a personality).

It's hard to find anything like that in Elsa. While she is not totally without a personality, for the most part she's just classy, feminine, and fearful. She mostly feels like a self-insert for people, particularly with how wildly generic "Let It Go" is and how her ice magic repression can be substituted for a million things, making her a little *too* easy to relate to.

Then suddenly in Frozen Fever she's a quirky, fun-loving, slightly irresponsible extrovert, which felt rather forced and didn't make sense with any previous characterization she got.

Sorry that got a little wordy.

[–] ira_gaines 7 years ago

It's hard to find anything like that in Elsa. While she is not totally without a personality, for the most part she's just classy, feminine, and fearful. She mostly feels like a self-insert for people, particularly with how wildly generic "Let It Go" is and how her ice magic repression can be substituted for a million things, making her a little *too* easy to relate to.

Exactly. She's too much of a plot device/self-insert. After all those years of repression I think it would have made sense for her to be a bit of a d*ck. Instead she's just classy and feminine like you said. "Let It Go" is such a rebellious and defiant song, but after it she's still exactly the same. Her personality doesn't change.

I liked the way she was portrayed in one of the deleted scenes where Anna's trying to pick a dress for the coronation. It wouldn't fit in with the rest of the final version of the story, but she actually seems like more of a well rounded character there.

[–] UnvoicedApollo1 7 years ago

"for her to be a bit of a d*ck"

Ignoring her sister for several years
Not giving a chance for Hans to state his case (he turns out to be bad, but story wise no one knows that)
Sics a snow monster on Anna and Kristoff

Seems like she's a bit of a d*ck to me.

[–] ira_gaines 7 years ago

Ignoring her sister for several years
Not giving a chance for Hans to state his case (he turns out to be bad, but story wise no one knows that)
Sics a snow monster on Anna and Kristoff

I'm talking about her overall personality, not her actions. In one of the songs they deleted "Life's too short" she's shown making fun of Anna for being delusional and calling her a fool. That's what I'm talking about. Even when she does set the snow monster on Anna and Kristoff she's still portrayed as being fearful and timid.

[–] UnvoicedApollo1 7 years ago

I would argue her actions are a reflection of the worst ways her personality could come out.

And as someone with years of experience in regards to repression, I can say someone can still have the ability to have some semblance of kindness and empathy.

[–] ira_gaines 7 years ago

I would argue her actions are a reflection of the worst ways her personality could come out.

Yes, but the point is they don't match with her personality.

And as someone with years of experience in regards to repression, I can say someone can still have the ability to have some semblance of kindness and empathy.

I'm not questioning it from a realism perspective, I'm questioning it from a dramatic perspective.

[–] dreamer (12) 6 years ago

I feel like she is just a girl who is afraid of hurting or losing the ones she loves. She always had to suppress her powers and when she could let them go it was just a happy moment for her. But then Anny came and she remembered the way she hurted her and the fear came back. She knew that she could kill her and I think the problem was that she had hurted her before. And if you can hurt and kill the person you love most what kind of person are you? She isn't the antagonist of the movie she just seems unpredictable and that makes people fear somebody