MovieChat Forums > The Punisher: Dirty Laundry (2012) Discussion > Does Thomas Jane not like the Punisher m...

Does Thomas Jane not like the Punisher movie he was in?

posted 12 years ago by steve_n88
14 replies | jump to latest

I only ask this question because he made this short and it was in a completely different direction than the Punisher movie he was in. I think this short was far more violent than the Punisher movie he made, he's far more ruthless, he destroys these guys for messing with a kid, but he doesn't really do the same when his entire family tree is massacred in the movie.

I personally didn't like Thomas jane's Punisher, I think it was PG-13 and his character wasn't ruthless enough, it just wasn't very violent. I liked Punisher Warzone a lot better because it had pretty much everything the other Punisher's were missing, but people complain that there wasn't enough story or dialogue from Frank Castle. This short seemed to have the best of both worlds.

On a side note, did anyone else notice that he just threw his laundry in the dryer and left? He didn't even wash it, LOL, maybe thats why its called "dirty" laundry. Anyways i thought it was silly. (And if it was a washer there was no water in it)

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] hoboboxerjoe 12 years ago

Yes, he wasn't very happy, at all, about the outcome (which is why the directors cut has that semi-animated beginning voiced by TJ)

TJ is also a BIG Punisher fan in real life, has written at least on published Punisher comic, has read just about all of the Punisher stuff. Shares many of the same criticisms that many of us hardcore fans share. It's one thing to put the movie on Florida, it's another to take out several key-scenes that explain why Frank is the way he is. The Iraq scene was a big part of that.

I personally think Punisher would work best with Thomas Jane casted in an HBO or Showtime-produced TV series. The reason that most superhero movies that ARE successful work is because they have such great villians and carry a much more epic scope. Hulk and Punisher have shared similar problems in they are both percieved as one-dimensional characters (though that is the furthest thing from the truth) and they have been generally treated that way on-screen. Hulk ended up having his best, most popular performance in a team movie of all things (the Avengers, of course)

I think Frank would work in either a Marvel Knights "Black Ops Avengers" movie where he leads a team (that is ultimately headed by Nick Fury, which would leave us open to showing Frank and Nick's past collaberations when they were both U.S Military. Perhaps even giving us a Frank Castle V.S Nick Fury battle which would just be *beep* epic, and brutal, way more awesome than the Hawkeye/Black widow fight in Avengers, at least in my opinion). It could have people like Shang Chi, Black Widow, Daredevil (who would always be at odds with Frank, thus giving them the Thor/Hulk dynamic that made Avengers so great), perhaps even War Machine, maybe Ghost Rider, Dr. Strange, Iron Fist, Luke Cage. That'd be a team that could hold it's own against the Big Guns in the Avengers.

I'd also love to see Frank out-shoot Hawkeye (with a pistol, Hawkeye definitely pwns Frank and everyone else when it comes to a bow, but no one kills like Frank kills, when he kills people it's almost an art form, perfected through decades of being the most dangerous man alive. Frank is essentially MU's Batman)

If you hadn't read these I'd HIGHLY recommend checking out Marvel Universe V.S Wolverine and Marvel Universe V.S The Punisher (both are connected). As well as Punisher V.S The Marvel Universe (they are two different ones, the first one I mentioned is a much more interesting take on how Frank would handle taking on guys like Red Hulk, Hulk, Kingpin, and a very buffed-up and nasty Spider-Man)

The Punisher V.S Marvel Universe shows the matter-of-fact-ness of how easy it would be for him to wipe out so many heroes who have a no-kill policy (he literally nukes all of the X-Men and all of the Brotherhood, Magneto, Prof. X, all of 'em, minus Wolverine, who he takes on personally, later, in a brilliant-yet-funny move)

He out-tacticians Captain America in a great fight, showing off his amazing abilities that were originally showcased in Spider-Man and Captain America back in the mid-70s (including Punisher showing awesome acrobatic abilities and actually hitting Spider-Man while Frank was leaping mid-air and Spidey was doing his Spidey-Fu and Spider-Sense-dodging. Frank actually FOOLED it. The only other hero or anti-hero to do it without drugging or disabling said Spidey sense is Captain America.

Frank also deflected Captain America's shield and captured it. There is also a What If, if Frank became Captain America (there is also another What If where Frank gets infused with the venom symbiot and basically becomes one of the ultimate badasses)

Oh, we also see Frank fight Dr. Doom, with a sledgehammer. It's pretty awesome (In Punisher V.S Mu, not MU V.S Punisher, I know, it's a tad bit confusing)

If you want I could see about e-mailing you the digital versions of these books. or I could point you in the right direction.

[–] cmad69 11 years ago

The only issue I have is called Punisher KILLS the Marvel Universe. Can you re-clarify which issues he fights Cap and Spidey?

"Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment"

[–] DarkPraetorian 11 years ago

That was a one-shot issue, pretty much a What If.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe

War Zone sucked on levels, there's a reason why Thomas Jane left, he wanted to do something better... and he did.

I'm getting real sick and tired of people wanted another film trying to act like the Avengers but with different characters. All that would do is try to recreate what was already done, it would be nothing but a sorry ass rip-off. The Punisher doesn't belong in a world of superheroes and villains who all wear tight brightly color leather or cat-suits. One of the main reasons why Dirty Laundry worked so well is because it's set in the real world fighting real bad guys with real victims and with adult level violence.

There would be no real reason for him to even be there, Frank Castle is just a normal person with no super powers or abilities, he wouldn't be able to bring or provided anything to the team. You could just easily replace him with a nameless agent or soldier and not much would be loss in terms of fighting. Why would Frank be on a team where half the people on it don't even like him? Just to see predicable arguments... oh please... the Punisher shouldn't be fighting superhuman characters, he shouldn't be teaming up with them, he doesn't or he should care about that type of crap. He leaves that to the super people who are made for that kind of thing. He's not out to save the world, he needs to only fight criminals like gangsters and the Mafia. Plane and simple.

But this seems like it's coming from an overhyped teenager or a 20 year who doesn't really understand on what works on film and what doesn't work with someone like the Punisher.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] JamesBondOO7 10 years ago

Well besides Jane this fan film had nothing to do with the 2004 movie. It was made by fans of the Punisher who probally just happened to get Thomas Jane to return to the role we dont know if this Punisher was intended to be the same one from the 2004 movie or not so that would be the reason why they were different. I am willing to be the Jane probally wanted the darker Punisher which is why he aggeed to appear but who knows.

[–] marmota-b 10 years ago

Actually, the way he put it on the Raw Studios forum (and pretty much everywhere else, really), it comes across more as a bunch of people who enjoy the Punisher getting together to do it, and that includes him, rather than "them getting him to return to the role". It even comes across as him being involved in the creation of the story (probably just in a "shooting ideas around" way as the final script was written by Chad St John, but, you know, involved from the start).

I think they left the question of whether or not it's a continuation open; but he specifically wears a NY Yankees hat in Dirty Laundry and on the forum he wrote he had always hated the line about them in the 2004 film, so... probably not a purposeful continuation with the exact same Frank. :-)

"There is Robinson, alone on a deserted island - but they will marry."

[–] steve_n88 10 years ago

Wow so many good replies especially hoboboxerjoe, sorry for not responding sooner I recently figured it out how to be notified to posts I create. Anyways, in response to the most recent post, in an interview with Jane on the Nerdist podcast he talked about his short and how he wanted to make a Punisher in this way and that it hasn't been done before which leaves me to believe he really was disappointed with his version, I think it's easy to conclude that anyways otherwise his short wouldn't have been made or the violence would've been more PG-13 if he simply wanted a sequel.

It does bother me that he overlooks Punish Warzone that had all the violence this short had in spades and was just far superior to Janes punisher IMO. Although Janes did seem a tad more realistic, Warzone was meant to have a comic book feel, which is appropriate considering punisher is a comic book character.

I would love to see Janes version if this short is what we can expect, but after reading some punisher comics I do think Ray Stevenson fits the profile better. I mean if Jane was a little taller and beefier, more brooding like Stevenson was, I would say Jane is perfect. Hopefully we'll see a Punishee trilogy within the next decade or so. I think the reason why Punisher is difficult to bring to film is because he's a character set in a medium initially designed for children, but Punisher is really not for kids, most ppl won't take the family to see a punisher movie as they would for the Avengers, so it's difficult to market an ultraviolent comic book film, which is why we got something tame like Janes version. Luckily PG-13 has become a little more flexible since than, maybe we can get an ultraviolent punisher movie that suits the family going audience as well as males 21-39.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] steve_n88 10 years ago

Since when is the Punisher charismatic? Ray Stevenson played the Punisher like he was supposed to be played, a dark, brooding, terse, killing-machine. I liked Punisher War Zone for what it was, a comic book movie, that displayed the Punisher doing what he does best, killing bad guys. Just because you wanted something more realistic doesn't mean thats the only way Punisher can be done.

Batman has had many incarnations that were awesome, we don't look at Batman and think, they were all SHlTTY until Batman Begins because thats when it got gritty and real. We see different variations and find aspects that WE like about them which make the original Batman films a classic (excluding Batman and Robin of course). When Jack Nicholson played the Joker we didn't think "no one would act like this, this is bullSHlT!" no, we loved the unique performance he gave to the role.

I know Dominic West was very over the top as Jigsaw, but it lined up perfectly with the insanity of the film. Not to mention most comic book villains are pretty ridiculous and very unrealistic to begin with. Lets face it, Tom Jane's punisher short was his apology for his own Punisher movie and thats it. It had a fraction of the grittiness that was in Warzone and better than Jane's original Punisher by a mile, but seeing how terrible his film was to begin with thats not saying much.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] steve_n88 10 years ago

I loved Brosnan as Bond but that explains a lot why you think you do about Punisher. I have been rewatching all of the old James Bond movies and acting-wise I think Pierce is really only second to Daniel Craig, and in many ways Roger Moore. I'm watching the Moore movies now and I just don't see him as the suave type that Brosnan brought to the screen. The other Bond's and I know Sean Connery is the go to for most, but man some of those movies were laughably bad, not to say Brosnan's movies were that much better, but his Bond certainly was.

Now back to Punisher, just because you like Jane's punisher doesn't mean most people did. They gave us a crappy PG-13 Punisher so they could get a bigger audience, period. Punisher isn't a cash cow like all of the other Marvel films because its for an adult audience. I could never buy Jane's Punisher, not only losing his immediately family, but his entire bloodline. Even I wouldn't do something as lame as "torture" someone with ice cream (yes did you forget he tortues someone using ICE CREAM in this movie?)to someone who knew info about who murdered my family.

The whole film was off balance, he suffered a much greater loss than Stevenson's punisher and yet he didn't inflict a fraction of the carnage. As for the color schemes used in the film, it honestly reminded me more of Sin City, an amazing film, than that of Dick Tracy and I didn't have a problem with it.

Although I disagree with you on these 2 films, I do agree that the Punisher could use a grittier, more realistic adaptation. I think even an HBO series could be really good. Unfortunately, like I stated before its very hard to market a Punisher movie because the type of blood and carnage needed to make a good Punisher film will almost certainly make it R rated, and those don't do nearly as well at the box office.

[–] VaticanAssassinWarlock 9 years ago

As I recall he only left the franchise after Jonathan Hensleigh was sacked. They always intended to make a sequel which would be similar in style to this short, I think he described it as Taxi Driver as a superhero film.

b]Boardwalk Empire Review (no spoilers)[/b]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWNdJTU8Bos