Okay, I just watched final episode and - correct me if I'm wrong here - there was absolutely no explanation at all of why the women trusted the killer enough to leave the train with him. Did I miss something? The women spent most of the second episode trying to work this out, I'm sure most of the viewers had their ideas, and yet the whole plot thread seems to have been abandoned during the finale. Talk about a gaping hole in the plot...
"Duck, I says..."
It was answered in the 2nd episode: he tempted them with black market goods, luxuries that one couldn't get during the rationing, unless you met the right people and went to back alleys with them.
He picked the girls based on the fact that they had those things : silk stockings, perfume, make-up, so he knew they were used to dealing and going with black-market peddlers.
You may be right, but how do we know that? We never saw the killer pull that trick, although the other man tried it on. The Circle could have been completely wrong about his modus operandi in that respect. Still, I guess they got him in the end...
"Duck, I says..."
Well, since we've seen him and we know that,like most psychopaths, he is charming, versatile, able to display a very likeable and nonthreatening personality- it doesn't matter so much what the *exact* scenario was.
Enough that he is able to appear congenial to the girls and pretend to be what they want- like he was able to pretend with Susan when she came looking for the files at the hospital: how quick was he to invent a story, give heaps of detail, emulate, make her ( rather more intelligent than his usual prey) give him secrets, pretend to have what she wanted...
It's easy to imagine he could have done the same with his other victims, even if the details differed .
When Susan 'phones Barnet and Crowley answers, he demands she come to the address without telling anyone. When she gets there, it's a semi-derelict house, either abandoned on possibly bomb damaged. Crowley also is there. Now, we may imagine either that he's been living there all along, or simply secreted himself on this occasion to spring his trap, but either way, how come the telephone is working?
Back in those days telephone lines were cut off immediately on cessation of a contract; not only that, but customers rented their handsets along with the line, therefore the handset would have been removed once the line ceased to function. (I grant you, it may NOT have been removed from a bombed out property, but once the house was reported as inhabited the line would certainly have been cut off.)
If Susan had arrived to find the victim's father murdered by Crowley, I wouldn't be questioning this, but - again, unless I've missed something - the scenario doesn't quite make sense.
"Duck, I says..."
[deleted]
Yes, I wondered if it was supposed to be an alternate address, but...
If it was, how did Millie and the others know where to go? Now, if it was Rose's dad's place, that would have been the logical assumption, but if the HQ had occurred to them, it seems odd that no reference was made to the dilemma they would have faced, not knowing for sure which way to go. However, if was supposed to be the HQ, why was there no reference as to how Crowley came to answer the 'phone in Barnet? As with the train incident, maybe we're supposed to assume that in the time-honoured psycho fashion he's killed the father to tie up a loose end, but dramatically I would have expected to see that portrayed on screen.
Now you say it, though, the special ops HQ is a nice idea and seems to fit the bill. Not very well put over, though.
Incidentally, I thought Susan made a bad choice in not taking kick-arse Millie as back-up...
"Duck, I says..."
Incidentally, I thought Susan made a bad choice in not taking kick-arse Millie as back-up...
They all made a bad choice not to find some muscle to work alongside them. They don't have police training. Their work at Bletchley didn't involve that kind of training so it's really implausible that people as smart as they are would keep putting themselves in such dangerous situations. Susan esp. I can't believe she went off on her own to meet a serial killer who, she must have realized, was targeting her as his next victim.
She KNEW that the killer ALWAYS got the girls to go with him willingly. So she just agrees to meet him, and go alone? She knew it was a bad idea. And it's not as though he had already kidnapped her children. They were safe. It makes no sense that someone as intelligent as Susan would make such a poor decision.
I liked the concept of this program, but if it continues, I hope they tweak the plots a bit and make them more believable. If the circle don't start working with Scotland Yard (free lance?), then they need to get some training or else recruit some former spec ops guys as their security men.
I think the end was a complete crap honestly.
There was no reason for her to go alone at the house, unless she was a bit of "psyco" herself and too obsessed as Crowley hinted, but she was supposed to be an intelligent woman. As someone said already it's not as though he had already kidnapped her children so it doesn't make sense at all. Furthermore, Crowley was an extremly intelligent man, why on earth would he organise that mise-en-scène at that point of investigation? It's not that they found new proves to convince the police. It was a lousy writing in my opinion.
Her going there alone didn't make much sense to me either. Also, it was too obvious and predictable, in other words too "ordinary," to have the other women following her when they realize the gun is missing.
shareI thought that the phone number susan called was a fake, planted by crowley - and the phone number on it didnt go to (I believe her name was) Julia's fathers house, or wherever, - but to wherever crowley had established himself.
and he threatened to harm her family if she didnt come to where he was.
That would make sense. I think I may have missed a pointer that wasn't spelled out too clearly. I'm trying to remember how the Circle got the info on the victim's father. Was it from Jean's contact, or from Cavendish? If it was in the material they took from Cavendish after his death, then Crowley could easily have laid a false trail. Cross now that I wiped the episode, otherwise I'd check!
"Duck, I says..."
1944 postcard from Julie's father from their Cotswolds vacation cottage. Julie's file also had the exact address, which is where the father had retired to.
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there was absolutely no explanation at all of why the women trusted the killer enough to leave the train with him.When we meet Crowley this becomes irrelevant, as he is charming and goodlooking and seems very sincere. Since the women involved were fairly "loose" women (this is discussed in ep 1), he would have had no trouble getting them to come along with him, even without a pretext.
I thought this was a very good mystery.
The murdered women were "not quite top drawer" (which is why they were willing to follow a stranger to get things). They didn't mind black market wares if they could get what they wanted; perfume, stockings, etc.
The Bletchley women were getting too close to him, as Jean pointed out; the closer they got to him, the closer he got to them. He arranged to meet Susan at Oakwood (the family name of the first woman who died). For all of his manipulation, it was no problem to make Susan believe that the woman's father was alive and lived there. For him, getting a phone at a deserted house was easily accomplished. When Susan made the phone call and he answered and responded to her by name, Susan followed his orders to come alone. The only thing that could affect her so strongly was her family (her daughter had complained the night before that a monster man was watching her from the garden). The assumption that the threat was to her family was verified as she stood in the doorway and told him she was fearful of her family being harmed.
She took the gun with her because she is no fool (I hoped she would drill him through and empty the gun in his gut, but she put the gun down). Her friends knew something was wrong because her mood changed after the phone call and she refused to allow Millie to accompany her. There was no reason to exclude Millie at this time. They were right to "wonder" and check for the gun. There was ZERO reason to take a gun to see the ancient father of the dead girl.
The sets and wardrobe were marvelous.
When we meet Crowley this becomes irrelevant, as he is charming and goodlooking and seems very sincere. Since the women involved were fairly "loose" women (this is discussed in ep 1), he would have had no trouble getting them to come along with him, even without a pretext.
Oh good grief Susan most certainly did NOT know he was the suspect! He pretended to be the psychiatrist and she believed him 100%, following him up to all the way his office.
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Then why did she bolt out of the office, tell him her husband was waiting and run at breakneck speed down the stairs???
share
You mean after she had followed him all the way up several flights of stairs and conversed charmingly with him for well over five minutes? If he hadn't then deliberately revealed himself, she would have still been charmed by him, just like all his victims were charmed.
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I respectfully disagree.
Once she had talked to him, she *did* bolt. She had become visibly more and more uncomfortable as she sat with him and heard his responses to her. Once he had translated his Latin quote, she realized exactly who she was dealing with and went to the police.
The only thing that didn't really make sense to me was that he was able to clear out everything in such a short time.
You're not getting it. He deliberately revealed himself after five minutes of charming conversation. He would have charmed his vitcims the same way, and not revealed himself to them until they were captured and it was too late.
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Oh, sorry, I see now. You're right. I didn't get it.
However, I still disagree. I didn't think she was just demurring or being charmed...at least not after the first couple positive comments of his...but was trying to "politely" ignore a growing sense of unease. The final reveal merely served to propel her up and out of her chair because her unease and growing suspicions suddenly became an immediate fear for her life then and there Whereas she had been holding herself in check, so as not to make him aware of her suspicions, at that point she didn't care anymore, all her polite reservations were thrown to the wind.
I think you need to watch the segment again. She did not even suspect him until he started acting weird about five minutes in. He could havekept up the facade forever if he'[d chosen to, but that wasn't the sort of person he was -- he wanted to play a game of cat and mouse with her and also frighten her.
Hoestly, I'm not interested in discussing this further and will not read any further of your replies.
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Hope you read *this* one:
I was wrong. I ripped open my Netflix return envelope because I wanted to go back and rewatch that segment (and the one when he greets her in the basement).
You had it exactly right. The camera played on his choice of cigarette, but that must have been for the audience's benefit because there was no sign that she had any suspicion right up until he quoted the Latin about "out of death and darkness, she has come" or whatever it was.
It was only then that she stood to leave and made up the bit about her husband waiting for her in the car...an obvious fabrication.
Thanks for pursuing this with me!
I'll respond all these years later because I think it was rude of your interlocutor to cut you off, seeing as you were being one of the few friendly people on this site. I think this point about Crowley revealing himself to Susan in the abandoned hospital is key to understanding the season's ending, and why he wanted to continue toying with her rather than cutting all ties and getting away.
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Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"--Pres. Merkin Muffley
That's not remotely true. Susan didn't suspect him, and accompanied him to a very private location where he could have killed her (and may have, if she hadn't suggested her husband was waiting outside). He only revealed himself to her after a fair bit of conversation. Also, most women aren't watching to see if the man they're talking to is the serial killer they've been looking for. Other women wouldn't have picked up on his creepiness at all.
"I'll book you. I'll book you on something. I'll find something in the book to book you on."