Can someone tell me what happened in the court? I know they're not completely guilty, poor souls they didn't know better, but the doctor, who was well aware of her lung infection yet still released her from hospital, certainly should have.
Anyhow, I wish to know how the Priest and nuns end up in the end.
The priest and the nuns ended up in prison for unlawful deprivation of freedom followed by the victim s death. The priest got 8 years, mothetr superior - 6 and nuns 5yrs each. They all got an early release, but are no longer part of the Orthodox church.
None of the medical staff was under trial.
Is there an interview or something with this info? (just wondering)
But I guessed something like that would happen.
It's sad that the medical stuff wasn't questioned... I think the priest and company did have some responsibility, but the doctors should've been punished as well.
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"I hate you, I hate us both"
The hospital staff, like many in the austerity-ridden UK, were limited in what they could do because they were overcrowded and lacking in resources. So much for the wonders of capitalism!
But surely the real criminal was the priest, the Father, whose authoritarian regime in the monastery regarded an unbeliever as an evil dissident who must not be tolerated. Alina was brutalised, locked up, shown very little kindness (except from Mama), and the so-called exorcism was a form of torture. Alina was shackled to a board with chains, and deprived of food and water, so she suffered severe dehydration, respiratory constriction, hypothermia and mental torture. She was treated like an al-Qaida terrorist, when she had done nothing wrong.
At least the hospital doctor released her with tranquillising medication, which seemed to calm her down, but she needed her freedom and a normal environment, and the priest and his followers deprived her of that. Her death was caused by the torture she endured. Why blame the hospital?
"Done nothing wrong"? Have you watched the same film? I'm a strongly anti-organised religion person but I felt this movie was a strong statement of goodness, altruism and decency still actually existing within the systems. I think this film strongly made a case for how the Preacher and nunds literally had no other choice than to do what they did, after trying every single other method one could possibly think of within the circumstances.
I'm romanian, I don't know where you are from, but I've read some other post of yours and you seem to have missed crucial aspects of the movie. The Preacher is by far the most honestly-faithful, good-hearted servant of God I've seen in a while.
I don't know how much this was addressed but to me, the movie almost seems like it's a study in the lack of expertise in dealing with a person with mental issues. Alina was violently dependent to Voichita... like crack, and whenever she didn't get her way even for a second, she spastically and uncaringly lashed out all around her damaging both objects and people that were not hers.
To me, for once in a Romanian movie, it wasn't Religion, Police, the Medical System or higher authority organs that were the villains. For once, it was actually she herself that brought it all to her, and I can almost say that she deserved what she got for being such an egotistical person, with no regard for anybody else around her. I would have prefer that she end up in a mental institution... but other than that, I don't see another resolution to dealing with somebody like this. It's like she never grew up and was still dominantly fighting over toys.
Seriously... what the *beep* are you talking about??
!No IMDB idiot may respond to this.!
Sorry, but I strongly disagree. The priest was ruling over those women like they were his slaves. The nuns did all the work, their "papa" was never shown doing anything more than taking scriptures out of context to make himself like a god over the nuns. This is a perfect example of how men in power will always fall to corruption. The "mother" nun and Voichita were the only ones in the first half of the film that showed any true compassion or empathy towards Alina, who just wanted to be loved. Later, as things got worse, the other nuns did show pity for Alina and regret for what they had done. The cause of her death was due to their ignorant blind faith in the priest.
While the doctor at the hospital could have been seen as being just as much to blame, having worked as a volunteer at hospitals and having been hospitalized myself for what they labelled as mental illness through my teenage years, I know from first hand experience hospitals are overly busy, under-staffed and impossible to find peace in. In truth, I am hypoglycemic and they forgot to check my blood but I can not and do not blame them at all.
Alina became too dependent on Voichita, yes, but loneliness, the fear of abandonment and feeling unloved causes people to become desperate, even violent. Are you unable to put yourselves in the shoes/perspective of a woman who has a mother who wants nothing to do with her, a father who killed himself, was raised in an orphanage and in-love with someone who refuses return that love? Have you never felt lonely, abandoned, unloved or confused? If so, you are very blessed and should be very grateful because these feelings are all too common in today's world. Alina's actions are quite common for people over-whelmed by such emotions. The priest made things worse because nothing she did was good enough, he didn't want her there and she knew it, she could sense it. He was inhospitable and that goes against the teaching of Christ. He was more than just a hypocrite, he was the opposite of how someone who dedicates their life to live as an example of Christ should be.
I think the film clearly shows the evils of Catholicism and the men religions put into power. It also is an example of how people with good intentions can do just as much wrong as those with bad intentions if they lack understanding. Your opinion of Alina makes it seem that you lack empathy and compassion. It wasn't that she was egotistical, she lacked love, acceptance and a sense of self. She wasn't much different from the nuns who lacked any sense of individuality and common sense because they had been manipulated by an antichrist.
"The sole meaning of life is to serve humanity." - Tolstoy
"...the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve..." - Mark 10:45
I'm also Romanian, and i say you're an idiot. The priest, the nuns are idiots too in this movie. It's that arrogant stupidity that only religious fanatics can reach. The doctor is an *beep* And overall, the entire society is just indifferent and shallow, and simply doesn't give a crap. Because that is how things are in a country filled with stupid people. Also, your profile picture is a dick. You are a religious, homophobic, idiotic, crazy person who has a dick in the profile picture.
shareReally? What the *beep* are you talking about?? What exactly did Alina do wrong to warrant being tied to a plank of wood, gagged, starved, deprived of water and subjected to religious interrogations (i.e. an exorcism), without trial or jury? She mouthed a few insults and threw an icon in the floor? Big deal!
Don't get me wrong, I'm aware that the film treated the priest and nuns tamely, implying that they were simply too naive to know better - though the extent of their faith is open to question - but Alina's 'sins' are simply commonplace human failings: jealousy, maladjustment and possessiveness; from which none of us are free. The idea that she deserved to be subject to such inhumane treatment, or even to be institutionalised, is simply absurd.
I can almost say that she deserved what she got for being such an egotistical person, with no regard for anybody else around her. I would have prefer that she end up in a mental institution... but other than that, I don't see another resolution to dealing with somebody like this.
related to the answer given by Robby_net: Statistically, Romanian society praises more Orthodoxism than it praises education and healthcare (Romania has 10 new places of worship completed per month, while it occupies 118th place in the world in terms of health expenditures and 101st place in the world for education expenditures-according to CIA world fact book-). Thus, one might imply that in Romania people are more likely to believe the diagnostic given by a priest than the one given by a doctor... you can read more about religion in Romania on BBC, in an article called "Romania's costly passion for building churches" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23420668
shareOh! Obviously you haven’t seen a schizophrenic in real life…don’t wish anyone to have such an experience! Well…during a crisis they can be aggressive, hurting themselves and others too.
I can assure you about one thing: if you were in their situation you would have done the same thing: tie her up! And tie the rope firmly! Why? Cause while on crisis they are dangerous and it’s frightening.
As we are on a movie site, I would suggest you to see Kubrick’s The Shining so you could have an idea…
Cristina Flutur did a great job playing Alina’s role!
Anyway, Mungiu said in an interview ppl who are to blame about this tragedy are not seen in the movie, so…
In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.
Obviously you've no idea who I've encountered in real life. Obviously you're a self-declared expert on the issue, just like the quacks who treated Alina. Hopefully you won't ever be in a position of authority over someone with a mental illness.
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I WANT THE TRUTH! http://www.imdb.com/list/ze4EduNaQ-s/
...and obviously you like to feel yourself extremely important under a hidden no name id on the internet.
Your arrogant non-response it's a proof not only you never ever saw a schizophrenic in a crisis in real life but you're incapable to accept your limits which makes you be very aggressive. Moreover you’re incapable to understand how important is to be well informed before having an opinion.
If your intellectual capacity of understanding doesn’t undergo what’s seen on the screen and this movie is about breaking icons, lesbianism and the big bad wolf Orthodox Church who doesn’t let you masturbate happily for ever and ever well you said enough about who you are.
As I mentioned before Mungiu said in an interview those who are responsible for this tragedy are not seen in the movie! So…ppl like you having such a bold opinion, well… they talk about who they are and not about this movie.
In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.
...or maybe A Beautiful Mind; it gives a better insight of this terrible disease.
In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.
Robby_net, I'm glad that most posters here disagree with you and believe Alina should have been treated with compassion - and that the Father (the priest) was a wicked man. I am in the UK, but one doesn't have to be Romanian to understand this film.
It was interesting to read that Orthodox religion is so strong today in Romania, and that healthcare and education lag far behind religion. That certainly helps anyone understand what this film is about.
AndreeaMariaVlasceanu, I find your diagnosis of schizophrenia implausible. I have experienced people who have a mental illness, including people labelled as "schizophrenic", and disagree strongly with your diagnosis and description of the "schizophrenic" person as essentially dangerous and in need of physical restraint such as we saw in this film. My husband is a psychiatric nurse and saw the film with me. He too disagrees. In fact he regards the term "schizophrenia" as bogus, a catch-all for a variety of mental illnesses, but he did recognise the treatment of Alina by the priest and nuns as typical of what was done decades ago (when straitjackets were routinely used). Now patients are medicated with chemical straitjackets. But Alina was in no way a "typical" "schizophrenic", and in any case there is no excuse for treating any human being with the torture inflicted on Alina.
I believe you guys missed the point here altogether. Indeed, the movie depicts a real story happened in my home country (search for Tanacu exorcism to find out more details) but I believe the main story here is that both Alina and Voichita have severe emotional scars left by growing up in the orphanage. Voichita finds a refugee in God when Alina leaves her to work in Germany but Alina, she is totally dependent of Voichita and she fails to cope with Voichita's found faith which she sees like a lover's betrayal. Alina's emotional scar is deepened by being away from her only emotional anchor. The exorcism story comes on top of this. I'm not trying to find excuses for Father, Mother and the other nuns, his authoritarian patriarchal rule, condemning other people's faith, is unacceptable in any tolerant society. However they are very simple people and like most of them they have a certain degree of ignorance. Usually this is not something to be blamed for (ignorance is bliss, they say) when it comes to someone getting hurt, then being ignorant is not an excuse anymore. You can definitely see that Father's intentions are somewhat good, he wants Alina to find peace, but his methods are reprehensible. You have to account for the staggering poor medical act which totally fails to asses Alina's emotional condition and send her away. Alina's degenerate behavior comes from desperation seeing that her true love is slipping away.
The movie tells the story, somewhat dramatized, of growing in an orphanage, dealing with medical system and society in general in late '90s Romanian reality.
This is emphasized by Ionut character (Alina's brother) which has a typical traumatized behavior (again, raised in an orphanage and growing up in a broken society). Not to diminish the fantastic performance of both actresses but I believe Ionut's role, as short as it is, is played brilliantly.
You got that right excellently played.........traumatized children too adults.
I read a few of these comments trying to pin blame on this person or that person. To me, the last shot of the film kind of sums it up. The shot of the school children walking across the street. This is something both Alina nor Voichita truly had coming out of the orphanage. A "normal" life. And we can probably infer the same about the other "sisters". They didn't have "proper" education, so they essentially fell into the trap of something like religion or that monastery. Alina was also mentally ill, or epileptic... she was also clingy, having nobody but Voichita as a friend (the opening of the film confirms some of these things as when she began crying). This caused problems at the monastery too, as when Alina became reactionary things escalated fairly quickly in them thinking she was possessed... I want to say mainly it was the gullible, uneducated "sisters" who were worse about it. But everyone's to blame.
There's a lot of subtleties and complexities - layers, if you will - to the film that are interesting.
For me it was a study of how a lack of education, or proper upbringing (schoolchildren at the end) lead to people doing stupid things - like tying up a mentally ill person and trying to exorcise their demons.
The dirt splashing on the front window of the car was especially an interesting observation.
:: filmschoolthrucommentaries ::
I read all comments. The character of Voichita not discussed. She is going through internal crises. She donot want to return back to her old life and ready to go through sufferings to remain in peace of mind.
shareTrue. She never had a family growing up, much less a Mother or Father in her life. Finding that monastery finally gave her that. It filled in some of the missing pieces of her life.
Many cults, including Charles Manson, called themselves the "Family." SInce they fill a void in someone's life.
Having sad that, I see the film as an allegory of ancient European ways vs modern ones. And these ways clashing together. Look at the way they lived, subsistence farming, no electric, just candles and oil lamps, it was totally crazy. They lived a lifestyle of 1,000 years ago.
But even two hundred years ago, it would have been perfectly normal and acceptable for a group of religious nutters to torture and kill someone during an exorcism. Remember the Salem Massachusetts Witch burnings in the USA?
But in our modern, gluten-free, iPhone, technology, feminism, politically correct world, such treatment of a woman, is 100% against the law and looked at as savage bestiality.