MovieChat Forums > The Bible (2013) Discussion > Non-Christians: learn what Mosaic Law is...

Non-Christians: learn what Mosaic Law is before bashing, please.


I keep seeing the "Christians eat shellfish when they're not supposed to" and "they mix fabrics" and the slavery quotes repeated on here to make fun of the Bible ad nauseum. Those rules are part of Mosaic Law, given to the Israelites before Jesus's birth. They didn't apply to gentiles (non-Jews) and never did. No Jew would have even expected anyone other than a Jew to follow their restrictions and, in fact, they still don't today. Jews still abide by the hundreds of Mosaic Laws, such as the shellfish thing you mention, which is why they passionately discourage anyone from attempting to convert to Judaism. Seriously, go seek out a rabbi and try it. They don't want to babysit new converts, so they push them away. There are simply too many laws for them to learn and follow. Christians are not and never were supposed to follow them. So the shellfish argument as well the ones about mixing fabrics, slavery, and all the other stuff people love to quote are not meant for Christians and never were.

I don't care if you don't believe the Bible, but education is your friend. A little knowledge about the faith you dislike will go a long way in helping you construct effective arguments that are also historically accurate. There's no reason you can't bash the faith and have your facts straight, too. You can have your cake and eat it, guys. It doesn't have to be either/or.

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[deleted]

It might interest you to read Paul's letters. He repeatedly refers to the fact that the Law is no longer in force. For example, Romans 10:4 says: "For Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness."

And at Ephesians 2:15 he explains that "by means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees."

Another time he referred to this fact is in the seventh chapter of Romans, verse 6, which says: "But now we have been released from the Law, because we have died to that which restrained us, in order that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit and not in the old sense by the written code."

He explains the reasons for this, to a degree, in Galatians 3:23. "However, before the faith arrived, we were being guarded under law, being handed over into custody, looking to the faith that was about to be revealed. So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian."

So you see from those quotes that the Law is no longer in effect for Christians. With that being the case, what did Jesus mean in that quote you cited? Well, the next thing he said was: "I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill." Now, what does "fulfill" mean? Consider this example: A builder fulfills a contract to complete a building, not by ripping up the contract, but by finishing the structure. Then, once the work has been completed to the client’s satisfaction, the contract is fulfilled and the builder is no longer under obligation to it. Likewise, Jesus did not break, or rip up, the Law; rather, he fulfilled it by keeping it perfectly. Once fulfilled, that Law “contract” was no longer binding on God’s people.

I hope you can understand that illustration, and I hope this reply has helped you to understand the situation with the Mosaic Law better. :)

"I'd rather be right and on my own, than wrong in the company of everyone else."

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Paul's authority supercedes Jesus's. Got it. Thanks!

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If you believe that the Gospels are the Word of God, and Jesus really is the Son of God and really did all the things the Gospels say he did, then logically you would likewise believe the same about the rest of the Bible (including Paul's letters).

If, on the other hand, the Bible isn't inspired and Jesus was just a man, then why would he have any more authority than Paul? In fact, what's the point in having this discussion in the first place?

The fact is, Jesus and Paul both said the same thing. The difference is, Jesus implied it, whereas Paul clearly stated and explained it. Jesus said that he came, not to destroy, but to fulfil the Law. If something is fulfilled, then it's not going to continue. It's done. Finished. Fulfilled.

Paul's authority doesn't supersede Jesus's. They don't contradict each other, they complement each other.

"I'd rather be right and on my own, than wrong in the company of everyone else."

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Indeed, and "everything [was] accomplished" when Jesus fulfilled the Law, by keeping it perfectly. Since then, it has no longer been binding on Christians. It had a purpose to serve, as Paul explained, and once it did that (which it did), it was no longer needed.

Do you take the entire Bible to be the Word of God, or just the Gospels?

"I'd rather be right and on my own, than wrong in the company of everyone else."

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[deleted]

Oh, I see. You're joking. Well that makes life easier.

"I'd rather be right and on my own, than wrong in the company of everyone else."

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[deleted]

Quite a bit of the Mosaic Law is not really about the afterlife but life on earth. Eating shellfish and pork will not send a person to Hell but today many doctors insist that they will increase cholesterol, cause hypertension, heart attack, stroke, etc. In short, degrade and reduce life expectancy. Many of the Old Testament Laws end with the phrase, "that it may be well with thee".

Many of the afterlife concerns seem to stem largely from the New Testament books. John 3:16 seems to suggest that the gospel message has something new to add to the equation: Eternal life rather than the death that comes to all organic creatures. When it comes to death, Ecclesiastes 3:19 says there is no difference between a man or an animal. Psalm 146:4 says that when a man dies he thinks his last thoughts. Quite literally, "Dead as a rock". Thus death itself (i.e. the wages of sin) is the punishment rather than consciousness with eternal torment. The decomposition that follows permits the "worm" to crawl in and out of our decaying flesh. Yet the true New Testament message seems to be that mankind is given a chance to live forever even as the Eternal God does.

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As a Christian, Jesus fulfilled the law. If we were supposed to still follow Mosaic law, then why did he stop the stoning of the prostitute?

Jesus tells us which laws to follow and which are the most important. Love the Lord your God and love thy neighbor. He recounts the 10 commandments except for obeying the Sabbath. Jesus is our new Sabbath and we celebrate him on all days.

As a Gentile, we have a new covenant, a new command and that comes from Jesus and Paul does a great job of helping us to understand these things.


Spinning... because knitting isn't weird enough.

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[deleted]

dont you dare talk against paul seeing as how he preached the same thing as jesus!

besides that though YOU are the one right. jesus says he came to fulfil the law not abolish it so that other person is taking both jesus & paul the wrong way.

paul & the other apostles continued to keep the old laws including sabbath as well as the feast days for their entire lives, long after jesus ascended.

a lot of people claim that paul said something when in fact he says the exact opposite....paul says what jesus says & people dont like that.

the catholic saint paul & the biblical one are two different people. the bible one is the proper one to follow.

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[deleted]

jesus himself says so "in the beginning it was NOT so"

this stoning crap came from what is called the oral torah, which is a fancy way of saying rabbinical laws. the rabbis go so far to say that not even god himself can dispute them! jesus told them off. this isnt the first time he butted heads with him.

jesus desperately tried to get rid of the false stupid oral torah time & time again but those morons STILL profess it today.

only the true torah...what we see in the OT...is the right one. now while there are some laws about stoning in deutoronmy..such as rapists adulterers & the like, this law was a spoken law from moses. jesus says somewhere else that he got rid of the CURSES & LESSER laws of moses as jesus is the new way.

but jesus NEVER EVER EVER gets rid of the laws direct from god! that includes the 10 commandments, clean/unclean food & marraige first sex after, to name a few. those are direct from god!

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News flash, mythology isn't real, thus everything in the Bible is fiction.

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May I ask what exactly your religious affiliation is, AgentsResurrection?



Hey, drop the chalupa!

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only according to saint paul & peter...the law against shellfish is actually for everyone.

many people say that peter/paul abolished this law completely. they did NOT! what happened was a huge fight involving as usual the temperamental peter who was told to go to the home of a gentile & teach him to be a christian. but rabbis have this stupid law that you cant enter the house of an unclean...this being a person. gentiles are unclean.

peter got so mad he stormed off to his rooftop didnt eat fell asleep hungry so naturally he dreamed about food. but this was SYMBOLIC ONLY for people. what god has called clean do not call unclean..this is PEOPLE NOT food! in fact it says so just a few verses later...but people blink on by.

as for slavery, in the OT the jews were not supposed to have slaves but since they kept turning heathens god provided laws on how to treat slaves humanely & they'd have to be freed after 7 years. but the true jews never ever had slaves as it is actually against the torah! says so in the OT bible which is of the torah!

the mixed fabrics is also sorely misunderstood. wool is winter & cotton is summer. 99 percent of the world is not stupid enough to wear summer & winter clothes at the same time. its common sense.

then the planet gets screwed with canada. hey you know what they say, there are exceptions to every rule! canada has such volatile weather that you go from heat to AC to heat five times in one day & wear a parka over your swimsuit.

so...about getting those facts straight, want to try again?

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