MovieChat Forums > Dear White People (2014) Discussion > Why did a movie about Black experiences ...

Why did a movie about Black experiences have ONE Black female character?

posted 9 years ago by TrinidadJanes
16 replies | jump to latest

Before you say it, no. No, Sam was not Black. She was biracial and very clearly so. And the one Black female character they did give us was self loathing and unlike everyone else in the film except for the racists and authority figures, she never grew as a character. Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. The biracial female experience is so uniquely different and separate from a full Black woman (and always has been), the fact that THAT experience was so perfectly defined and well rounded and the Black woman's was not (unless she was a self hating caricature of herself...I guess that's the only Black female experience that exists, right?), is so painfully typical. I wish I could say I was surprised.

I just find it ironic, laughable, and depressing that even in Black people's own images of themselves, Black women are marginalized and minimized just like they are when non-Blacks control the narrative. And this is coming from someone who truly enjoyed the film. But at the end, despite all its great elements as a film, I couldn't help but walk away from it with a disgusted feeling in the pit of my stomach. The erasure of Black women continues unfettered.

Boom.

[–] loui_b452 9 years ago

Before you say it, no. No, Sam was not Black. She was biracial and very clearly so.

I'm not sure you realize just how hurtful this is to us. We try our entire lives to fit into the community we should call our own but we're shunned for a skin color we cannot control. We're treated as something less because we don't look exactly like you. Do you not see the irony in this? Is it lost to you that biracials are being discriminated against for the color of their skin?

I agree that it's sad we didn't get to see more of the black female struggle but to call Sam's experience "not Black" is a problem in and of itself. Her struggle was an internal as well as an external one. It is different from the "usual" black female struggle but not separate of the black community. And yet, we are treated like our experiences don't matter because they aren't your own.

I don't know your stance on "Can Blacks be racist?" but I can tell you that THIS opinion is a prejudice one. Comments like that separate our own community. ALL black experiences matter, no matter the shade.

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[–] TrinidadJanes 8 years ago

What is problematic about calling a biracial person's experience a biracial person's experience? I don't get this. Somehow Black people are wrong and racist for saying we are not the same as biracial people. But the white people (perhaps in your own family) saying that any drop of Blackness poisons a bloodline and the resulting child should be banished into the Black race, isn't? Every other group gets to define their members, but Black people aren't allowed this. Yet we're the "prejudice ones"?

Look your experiences matter. And no only that, they aren't experiences that are wholly separate from the Black community. But guess what, they aren't wholly separate from the white/non-Black community either. And they are not, and will NEVER be the exact same as the experience of a full Black person with dark skin, full features, and a head full of kinky hair.

I don't care how light skinned a full Black woman is, she's Black. She has two Black parents and she has no insight into white people at home, nor does she have any direct relation at the aunt, uncle, cousin, AND grandparent level. Biracial people do. It is different, and I'm tired of Black people who didn't create such nonsensical, RACIST rules, being labeled the bad guys for going against them when they were wrong to begin with.

And what's funny to me is everyone wants to talk about all black experiences matter, but when Black women's unique experiences are outright EXCLUDED from social movements, when Black women are outright excluded from roles, and the roles they are given horrible stereotypes that relegate Black women to being ugly outcasts, no one has anything to say then (and if a Black woman speaks up she's bitter and/or insecure). Where are you when I turn on the TV and can't see ANY Black woman that looks like me being lauded as a beauty standard? Oh that's right, you're just around when I celebrate the recent Miss USA finally being a dark skinned full Black woman to remind me that "all Black women are beautiful, no matter the shade and to stop separating the community" 

Boom.

[–] ModGoviya 7 years ago

This is a superficial and nonsensical response to the original post. Nowhere has the OP said that the biracial person's experiences were less valid. What they have said is that a full black woman has different life experiences from a biracial woman, and that while the biracial woman's experiences were shown in a well rounded way, the full black woman's experiences weren't.

[–] loui_b452 7 years ago

Clearly, you have not read the rest of the thread. Or her OP. Or, perhaps even MY post.

So I'll give you a bit of time to catch up...

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[–] CranberryNoVodka 9 years ago

I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea of someone "clearly" being biracial (in this case being black and white). Sure, there may be some facial features that would fit into a certain category of looking mixed but it doesn't always work that way. Do Jennifer Beals, Troian Bellsario, Rachel True, Halle Berry(early in her career before the nose job),Soledad O'Brien(if you'd like to count her),Rashida Jones,and even Carol Channing look biracial to you? In America, she's still seen as "other" and by many people, she's still black person despite her not being fully black. A lot of people believe in The One Drop Rule still unfortunately.

I get what you're saying though. That's one thing that I wish was somewhat different, but people like her exist; there was a lady on Dr. Phil like that. I almost died from embarrassment watching her.I wish that Coco transformed like the other black characters in this movie did. Her biggest change was sleeping with Troy, something she wouldn't have done because she's not into black men. I was expecting he to ditch her wig at the very least...
A bit of the old ultraviolence...

[–] alismigyette 9 years ago

I agree..i wish they had developed coco character more as well. However..it saddens me abt this whole biracial isn't black. While i agree...it just is upsetting bc of ppl like me. Its like where do i fit? Im not biracial...but i am of mixed races and im light skin. I can fit almost anywhere...but i am either reminded that im not black enough or that im too black. Im like which is it? Honestly..we're all black and the amt of pigment shouldn't matter. However i do agree..the writer could have done something to better help the audience's view of us aa a whole. And i wish that coco would have ditched the wig as well.

*Officially Rumple's keeper of the daggerl!..success!*-Words of Mrs. Alis LeBrane

[–] neelay123 8 years ago

I agree and disagree.

There are light skinned black women who could pass for mixed race but are not. So I wouldn't have been surprised if sam was black or mixed.

Like you I really enjoyed this film but how there was no discussion between the two characters is beyond me.

I do agree with you on how the characters portrayed. Both ladies did solid jobs with what they were given. But for each of them it was very generic. At the end the light skinned girl who generally by society is deemed more attractive, comes to terms with some of her issues and walks off into the sunset with her guy. The dark skinned girl gets....nothing.

Imo she's more of a prop.

[–] activista 8 years ago

@neelay123

Both of the women were forced to come to terms with their own issues about themselves. It wasn't even about either of them getting with a guy (and Sam was already with her guy to begin with---she dealt with her own issues, not because of him, but for herself) And Coco was hardly a "prop" she was one of the main characters in the film---she had her own clearly defined plans laid out for herself---it wasn't all about getting some guy---as if that's all a female character is supposed to do. And half the people in the film didn't know or discuss things with each other.too. It's as if you or the OP didn't even bother with the real issues the film brings up and were just hung up on the colors of the leading ladies. Seems like that more of an issue for you and the OP than it really is, because they're not a single issue made of it in the movie itself.

[–] neelay123 8 years ago

Activista.

Firstly. And just to be clear. I thought this was a really good film. But this is a discussion where we can talk about what we liked and what we didn't.

Secondly I never said it was about either of ladies getting I guy I was using it as an example of Sam getting her on screen happy ending. Personally I think it would have been a stronger film if Sam's relationship was left ambiguous.

And Coco being a lead doesn't necessarily make her a fully developed character. Storm is a lead in X-Men yet has spent most of the film series as a posing token IMO.

I know Coco had her own plans but I personally feel that she could have been developed more. And I know that there are other characters that needed development but right now I am talking about Sam and Coco.

Colour and shade might not be a "real" issue to you. But it is to other people. The film did touch on Coco facing slight discrimination due to being darker skinned. Maybe you missed that. But in the end I do not feel that her character achieved the same level of on screen closure/acceptance that Sam did.

[–] activista 8 years ago

@Trnidadjanes

Honestly, what you're saying is ridiculous. Sam's character looked black and clearly identified as black. Basically if you look more black than anything else you are, that is what people assume you are. And to say that her experiences with race weren't valid because she's biracial is so damn ridiculous. Seems like you just have a problem or some issues with biracial people,period. Who are you to say that they aren't "valid" black people because they're mixed?

Biracial people still experience racism like most black people, maybe not to some extent, but that really depends on where they're from, where they grew up, who raised them, how well they were taught to be proud of their black heritage, and many other different factors. So to say the biracial woman's experience is so different for a black person's experience is frankly, kind of silly because if a biracial woman looks black, she has to deal with all the issues, frustration and problems that come with being a black woman in today's society. Being biracial isn't some automatic shield that protects them from racism---don't know where you got that from. I'm black, and I saw a young black woman coming of age who was trying to carve out an identity for herself, and who was clearly proud of her black heritage. You also seem to have forgotten the other prominent black female character in the film named Coco--it wasn't all about Sam---the film was pretty much an ensemble cast, anyway. It also deals with Coco and her issues and how she goes about constructing her own identity,too.

[–] sloopydrew 8 years ago

I just find it ironic, laughable, and depressing that even in Black people's own images of themselves, Black women are marginalized and minimized just like they are when non-Blacks control the narrative.

That's literally one of the main points the film was making. Watch it again with that in mind.

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[–] jayghani 8 years ago

Until the year 2000 people would have still called her black. As a person with two grandparents on both sides of my family that look white, they would tell you she is black.....

[–] emvan 8 years ago

1) Other people have pointed this out somewhat, but the notion that white people look at someone like Sam and think, "oh, biracial!" is laughable. The primary reason why identity is so problematical for blacks is that whites do it for them.

A film with four black characters that's about identity in general and black identity specifically is going to have two men and two women, including one gay or lesbian, and one biracial. That makes the equation complex enough to explore all the issues. And gay men get more abuse from their peers than lesbians, so it's a more interesting set of characters if the gay person is one of the guys. And finally, dark-skinned black men have the disadvantage of appearing more "thugish" to unconsciously racist whites (i.e., all of them), while light-skinned black women have some advantage since men will judge a woman by her beauty, and many white men prefer lighter skin. At an Ivy League school, the "thug" factor is off the table, so, again, it's a more interesting story if one of the women is biracial.

2) I couldn't disagree more about Coco's character. In fact, she may have been the most complex character of the four. She also drives the story as much or more as Sam.

Note that she's the only one of the four who expresses a sexual preference by race (everyone else is beyond that) and yet the only one who doesn't have an interracial relationship -- even thought that's her stated preference. Sure smells like caricature to me!

And yeah, I agree, I'm sick to death of black women characters at Ivy League colleges who successfully earn their way onto the white-dominated school satire magazine. Another caricature, for sure.

It's absolutely true that the side we see of her in her first scene seems shallow and maybe self-hating. Her denial "There's no 'hood in me" would play that way if were entirely sincere and a bit self-delusional. I know there are movie viewers who make their minds up early about a movie or an aspect of it and then simply fail to see all the evidence to the contrary. I believe that's what happened here; she hit a hot-button with you, you decided you knew what she was about, and you saw everything from that point on through that filter, which even went so far as to excise blatant contradictions. She never grew as a character in your head, because you weren't allowing her to do so.

In fact, it's pretty clear that her "no 'hood in me" denial is a consciously created stance, designed to ward off white dismissal. She's also consciously rejecting the comfortable middle-class life her parents expect of her (like Troy's), in which her blackness would be invisible to herself as well as others, in favor of a career (anything where people know her name) in which that blackness would be foregrounded as much as possible. Unlike Sam and Troy, her solution to the problem of black identity is a paradoxical, contradictory one; it's absolutely the most complex (Lionel's is unformed).

You completely missed her character growth arc, where she is the only person who understands Troy, the only person who is a good match with him, and where she breaks her rule by sleeping with him.

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

[–] TrinidadJanes 8 years ago

Other people have pointed this out somewhat, but the notion that white people look at someone like Sam and think, "oh, biracial!" is laughable.

Didn't read past this tbh. It is so erroneous (and LAUGHABLY so) I figured we may as well address this first before talking about anything else.

White people can absolutely tell when a Black person has more non-Black admixture and especially so when they are biracial and actually have a white/non-Black parent.

Do you want some easy evidence as to how I know this is true? Because white casting directors, producers, filmmakers make it a point to cast these people, especially as it concerns women, INSTEAD OF their darker, full Black counterparts. That is especially so when the role is a love interest or non-stereotypical. I think you are confused by the fact that they cast these biracial women purposefully and task them to represent full Black women. Just because they are asking them to play full Black women does not mean they are under the impression that they are. They know they aren't, and it is in fact a big reason why they were cast in the first place.

On the other hand, when the role is very stereotypical and supposed to be generally unattractive/a-sexual, white people remember EXACTLY what a full Black woman looks like. Look at shows like Orange Is the New Black. You ask yourself, where are all the light skinned curly haired mixed women that always find their way into Black women's roles in every other film/tv show? Why are they noticeably absent from OITNB? It is literally the first time I have ever seen that many brown to dark skinned, fuller featured, Black women in one show, and unsurprisingly, it is a show about prisoners.

So no, you couldn't be more wrong-and laughably so-that white people can't tell a full Black woman with Black features, from a biracial woman with mixed features. They know and they are using this knowledge to ERASE Black women's image from TV and film unless its negative. And yes, I realize Black men are also in on it, but that is another story since we're just focused on white people.

Boom.

[–] emvan 8 years ago

I wasn't clear, but I wasn't talking about conscious assessments by professionals for whom skin tone is, very unfortunately, a commercial factor. Your description of the general state of affairs in Hollywood is spot-on and your complaint is absolutely legitimate.

What I'm saying is that there is no immediate, unconscious, "biracial" category when white people meet or view black people. We may look at people and go, oh, she's Hispanic, he's Indian, she's Asian ... but there is no "biracial" bucket. Of course we're aware of different skin tones, but we don't extrapolate back to parentage or even wonder about it. So Sam is perceived by white filmgoers as "black." Which I think undermines your complaint. And in fact the film then goes on to be instructive about the different challenges that biracial people of color have from those with less mixed ancestry.

I think your anger about the general perception of skin tone as it supposedly relates to character is righteous and welcome. I think this is an instance where you went into a film expecting to see the same bulls---, and saw something that on the surface looked just like it. But if you read the rest of my post you'll see an argument that making Sam biracial was a necessary choice given the film's theme, and that in fact Coco is a very nuanced (and ultimately very sympathetic) character. Which you can miss if you are hyper-aware that black women who look like her are usually cast in certain types of roles, and when the film at first appears to confirm your fears about that stereotype.

I would even go so far as to say that making the darker-skinned black woman (as white viewers would describe her) at first come across as sterotypically angry and unwelcoming, and then showing her to be much more than that, is deconstructing the stereotype. You want white viewers to initially perceive her along the lines of the stereotype, so that they don't immediately classify her as "an exception to the rule." By making the audience initially mischaracterize her, you put the thought into viewers' heads that maybe they're doing that same sort of misrepesentation all the time. That's the way deconstruction works: you have to start with the stereotype and then reveal it to be wrong. If you start with a straight counter-example, you invoke a "oh, she's different" defense.

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.