I wouldn't claim that race originally is a socio-cultural concept, the right word for that is ethnicity. Many different species on the planet can be divided into races, even if I think it's kind of questionable to quote scientific products during the area of racial biology, where many scientist in the western world had a bias for this divide. But yes I would say that races do definitely exist biologically.
Just because something is sensitive - and used by idiots who don't do so without bias is not an excuse to pretend it doesn't exist. Not saying one is better than the other (they all are, in differing circumstance), just different. I am acknowledging that there is a difference.
However, not within humans, that Fishman61 quote a dictionary does not mean anything else than that there are people that use the word in that way, not that it is scientifically correct.
Then you neither understand dictionaries, their purpose - or the scientific method.
I was using the dictionary to back the term race we were debating, until he started saying we were using it incorrectly. So in this context, when using words, that at that time did not even have specific scientific terminologies, just generalities - the dictionary is fine.
The rest of it, I will just dismantle the key linchpins of. There is a lot of examples they use to reinforce the same points, and secondary things that do not matter as much. Trying to be concise, and exact in my answer here.
The concept of race as a categorization system for human beings did not exist formally until the late eighteenth century.
Of course. That was right about the time of the rise of Darwinianism, the theory of evolution, and thoughts of separating races of any species by classification. Social evolution theories, and eugenics, etc came even later still (not a fan of eugenics, don't get me wrong here.)
Are you saying that the concept of this kind of categorization system is wrong, simply because the system it would be based upon wasn't around the popular consciousness before it was formed? That is silly.
Several scholars have identified the conception of human races as a key part of the development of a racist ideology (e.g., Feagin 2000; Yetman 2004). An ideology is a belief system intended to rationalize and justify existing social arrangements.
People use religion for the same thing. News for the same thing. Twisted science for the same thing (twisted, as in they don't properly do a scientific method, they have a theory first, then form the facts around it).
All to develop a racist ideology.
Does that mean each and everything they are individually bad?
And again, you don't need facts at all. I heard that black people are monkeys. I have heard white people are white apes, one step from an albino, and were originally the slave race until they stole everyone's tech (does that make sense to you, any of this? Racist propaganda regardless of which race the racist is, tends to be very off the wall stuff.)
Ignoring the science of the difference, is not going to be the answer. They don't need this system to enforce their stupid ideology. They will pervert it or create their own.
But you can refute them with correct science, showing that all races can do well, all races have different specializations, etc that are better than others on average. And all races have their exceptions, their Einsteins, etc. But refusing to get into the science, and making a blanket statement of all being equal is not a way to go.
So clearly there is no biological race among humans and to define them as such is apparently dangerous
That is just silly. Anyone can be dangerous or peaceful. All the numbers are averages and prone to other factors. Making science to define someone as dangerous? What does that serve to anyone?
Then let's look up the word racism:
racism According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term describes ‘the theory that distinctive human characteristics and abilities are determined by race’. The word itself is rather recent, probably going back only to the 1930s. There are two attitudes towards the concept of racism: one says that ‘racism’ is usefully applied only where it is derived from a perception of race and the ensuing fixation on ‘typical’ racial traits. In this sense ‘racism’ describes the racialist attitudes of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, deriving from the merger of physical anthropology and ethnography on the background of the idea of evolution. Another school has argued that racism consists in intentional practices and unintended processes or consequences of attitudes towards the ethnic ‘other’. According to this line of thought, it is not necessary to possess a concept of ‘race’ to entertain prejudices towards other peoples.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Racism.aspx#4
This is incorrect, I have done extensive research on this topic.
Things to note first. Up until 1960s-1970s (when racialism came to mean something different), racialism was synonymous with racism, and many dictionaries defined them by each other to some degree. It was first quoted in 1902. But here are some early dictionary examples, before he 1930s.
1862 definition of racial: "(1862) 1: of, relating to, or based on a race 2: existing or occurring between races — racially
Source: Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, 1988
1907 definition of racialism: "(1907) RACISM — racialist
Source: Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, 1988
Here is a quote from Richard Henry Pratt, 1902
"Segregating any class or race of people apart from the rest of the people kills the progress of the segregated people or makes their growth very slow. Association of races and classes is necessary to destroy
racism and classism."
The term rac
ist, does seem to be from a Leon Trotsky, in his book History Of The Russian Revolution in the 1930s, however, this is a singular reference, clearly does not refer to race in a white/black or white/non-white context, and appears to have been used purely as an epithet. The credit for coining the word proper must go to a contemporary of Trotsky, although one who would most certainly not have approved of his broader political ideology.
I think this is why so many people get confused on the dates. The origins of the term go back probably to the later half the the 19th century.
By the way, all of this enforces the modern definition, even in the Merriam Webster.
Racism (Merriam-Webster)
: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race
:
the belief that some races of people are better than othersThat last one nails it on the head, viewing someone as the superior or inferior, either by faulty scientific reasoning, religion, custom or otherwise.
It's not stated of course that only states who have the kind of racial structure taken into practice that will have racism in the society, but can we try to agree that it definitely does not help to use biological terminology to increase differences among people who already, through complicated past history, had problems with each other and makes it considarbly harder to become as one.
Understanding, and embracing the differences should make a big difference. You know, education, the kind that proves that blacks are not inferior, and are great people, capable friends, etc, and vise versa? That is what we need. Not being able to understand that there are difference is just blind ignorance. People need to move past this stumbling block.
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