MovieChat Forums > Duck Dynasty (2012) Discussion > Un-Christian Disgusting Lifestyles!!

Un-Christian Disgusting Lifestyles!!


I've seen a lot of fools commenting on this debate who talk about freedom of religion - yet have no clue about the Bible or the Constitution.

But that's not what I wanted to comment on.

What I really wanted to talk about is the disgusting lifestyles being paraded around, that any good Christian should find offensive.

PHIL ROBERTSON has been praised for his faith and adherence to the Bible. Because he finds behaviors sinful that are condemned in the Old Testament.

Well, there's a few behaviors condemned in the NEW TESTAMENT:

MATTHEW 19:24 - "It is easier for a camel to pass the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven."

Phil Robertson owns a vast business and is himself a wealthy man. As a Christian, I don't want my children being subjected to that filth. My Lord condemns it. I don't want them seeing such sinners on TV. They may begin to idolize, or even worse emulate the disgusting lifestyle of the Robertsons.

LUKE 14:33 - "Any who does not give up all his possessions, cannot be My follower."

Christ clearly says that he does not count the wealthy among his followers. If you have not given up your possessions to the poor, you are NOT following the commandments of Christ and thus cannot consider yourself a follower.

MATTHEW 7:1 - "Judge not, lest ye be judged.....HYPOCRITE! First remove the log from your own eye. Otherwise, how can you see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's?"

Christ here tells us that we're all living in sin and that one cannot point out the sin in others, due to the overwhelming burden of sin they, themselves carry.

LUKE 18:9 - The parable of the Pharisee and the Tax collector. Here Jesus teaches us that those who are confident of their own righteousness are not justified before God. The man who admits himself a sinner is the one that God will favor.


Debates of "free speech" and "religious freedom" aside, PHIL ROBERTSON does not have a moral leg to stand on when he condemns homosexuals. Their behaviors may violate the commandments of his holy book. But then again, PHIL's behaviors violate the commandments of his holy book.

If you expect others to live by the standards of your book, perhaps you should lead by example.


THIS IS MOSTLY ADDRESSED TO THE FOOLS OUT THERE WHO CONSIDER ROBERTSON A "FAITHFUL CHRISTIAN". Clearly he is not. I'm not either, but ones own morals should be internally consistent.

"Let them pass that law and they'll have you in chains with a number burned into your forehead!"

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Do you know how many MILLIONS the Robertson Clan has given to Charity! More than the Honorable Barack Hussein Obama and the Honorable Joseph Robinette Biden combined!

Look it up!

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You morons assume that If I don't like Robertson, WELL DEN I MUST LIKE DAT OBAMA!!!

Here's a clue - the world isn't divided into two distinct groups. My contempt for Obama is equal to my contempt for Robertson. But this is not the forum in which I would discuss my Obama-dislike.

If Robertson hasn't given ALL of his possessions to charity, it shows he holds himself in higher esteem than the starving children he could feed by selling his houses and belongings to charity.

The fact that you had to straw-man attack a position you thought I'd defend shows how bankrupt your argument is. Go back to the playground, Kid.

IF HE WANTS TO PREACH AGAINST SIN, HE SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT HE ISN'T VIOLATING THE BIBLE'S COMMANDMENTS (which he is).

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Have you sir given ALL of your possessions to charity? Sure its easy to say that with all the possessions the Robertsons have that if they sold them it would feed a lot of kids, but If you think about it the same could be said of you. Let me ask your some questions. Do you own a house? a car? a TV? furniture? I assume by the fact that you are commenting on a website you own a computer right? All these things would feed a lot a kids too. I am a Christian and I consider the Robertsons good Christians.

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I love how he completely ignored your post. Of course this person hasn't given up all their possessions or they wouldn't be able to watch the show on TV or comment on it on the internet. I agree with you sir...The Robertsons are Christian people...and yes they (like everyone else) sin from time to time, but they have been washed in the Blood of the Lamb. I would love to be able to meet them one day and tell them how they have changed my life and helped me so much on my path with Jesus. Thank you for standing up for them. And remember we must forgive the guy who started this post...like Jesus said, he knows not what he does. Amen bro.

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Ezekial3817,

I read your 1st post carefully, then the 1st comment by another, and then your comment here I am replying to as I do not need to read any further. You are either a troll, trying to get people into an argument or you are an idiot. I am a nice individual and I am going with troll who is looking for attention. You will find anything wrong with these people. They have never claimed to be perfect and I bet you cannot find anyone close to perfect. We can only do our best here on this earth and life is too short to listen to your rumblings. What about reading Matthew 7:1 for a bit there friend.

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Bragging about how much money you give to charity is un-Christian. Making a big show about how righteous you are is also un-Christian. As is praying in public. Jesus said you're not supposed to do any of these things, but self-described Bible thumpers like the Robertsons do it anyway.

Look it up.

Matthew 6:1-6

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EXACTLY.

The self-righteous "pharisee" who wears the badge of Christianity but doesn't follow Christ's words is actively insulting Christ.

"Let them pass that law and they'll have you in chains with a number burned into your forehead!"

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You obviously know little about the bible. It also says in the New Testament that not being wealthy itself but rather how you deal with it is what's a sin. Just because people know they give a lot to charity is found out in many ways. I never heard them brag about it on that show. Some things discussed in the bible that people want to keep bringing up were not commands given for later Christians but rather details in stories told in the book. The reason there are still bible believing Christians is because for the ones who have actually had an education in it understand it. Unlike most average poster on here. It seems you are like so many....eager to have something to use against a group you already made up your mind about without having all the facts.

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Nice example of how taking the Bible too literally can cause all kinds of misery. I don't know what to think about homosexuality, but if it is a sin, I'd rather see us concentrate on worse sins first. Let's clean up all the murder, rape, abused children, starving people, and disease in the world, and then we can worry about homosexuality.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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Nice example of how taking the Bible too literally can cause all kinds of misery. I don't know what to think about homosexuality, but if it is a sin, I'd rather see us concentrate on worse sins first. Let's clean up all the murder, rape, abused children, starving people, and disease in the world, and then we can worry about homosexuality.


Your position is admirable.

But if people want to cherry pick from the Bible, and choose what to take literally and what to take as a metaphor, then they must accept that others will do the same according to their own morality.

If one wants to claim it as the INFALLIBLE DICTATE OF THE CREATOR, then they should take it 100% literally. It's either 100% literally true, or 100% metaphor. To pick and choose is to be intellectually dishonest.

I personally like some of the Bible teachings (many of Jesus' parables are great moral tales). But I know that it's a storybook.

"Let them pass that law and they'll have you in chains with a number burned into your forehead!"

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Your position is admirable.
Thank you, sir.
But if people want to cherry pick from the Bible, and choose what to take literally and what to take as a metaphor, then they must accept that others will do the same according to their own morality.

If one wants to claim it as the INFALLIBLE DICTATE OF THE CREATOR, then they should take it 100% literally. It's either 100% literally true, or 100% metaphor. To pick and choose is to be intellectually dishonest.
Oh, I don't think so. Ever hear of hermeneutics? It's the theory of text interpretation, and it's a fascinating topic. Everybody looks at a text, whether it's the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Diné Bahaneʼ, well, the list of sacred texts is way too long, but everybody looks at them in their own way. Every belief, even things like Scientology, humanism, paganism, even science itself, has its fundamentalists, its liberal thinkers, and every shade in between. I don't think there's anything dishonest, intellectually or otherwise, in interpreting a text, especially a text like the Bible, which has so many opposing viewpoints within it that you literally can find support for any position you choose to take. By the way, here's a good website about hermeneutics, complete with a quiz. http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/2008/february-online-only/cln80225 .html

I agree with the author of the article here when he says, "At times one suspects something other than strict interpretation is going on when the conservative is willing to appeal to history to suspend the commandment to observe a Saturday Sabbath, but does not to appeal to history on other issues (e.g., capital punishment or homosexuality)." And it's true-fundamentalists do tend to appeal to sacred texts to uphold their right to condemn and punish. They never seem to take the parts about loving your neighbor literally, but that's another discussion. I'm a Christian, so I read the Bible every day and I love the Bible, but I take it with a grain of salt. I understand it was handed down by God, but written down by men. Men with their own agenda, just like our leaders of today. So I look at the two great commands of Jesus, to love God and to love my neighbor, and I try to follow those, and when I fall short, I just keep trying. I do think that's what life is about for any of us, whether we're believers or not-to just keep trying. After all, the Golden Rule is not a religious or even a spiritual rule. I read an article recently about Isaac Asimov which talked about the Three Laws of Robotics and how they embody the Golden Rule.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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@Zanza862: Wonderful post. I'm a Christian also and you pretty much read my mind!

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There is no sin worse than another, except blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

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Love this post!!!!

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[deleted]

You should realize that much of Christ's preaching wasn't intended to give people more rules to follow so that when they followed them, they could delight in their ability follow rules. Christ lived in Israel in a time in which they were still under the law. The purpose of the law was to lead people to Christ, not so that people could keep the law and realize what good people they were.

So Christ even expanded on the law--saying things like not only should you not commit adultery but not even lust in your mind. Not only give ten percent, but everything, and so on.

You seem to think Christ is saying that following him is keeping all these commands to an acceptable level. "Don't be wealthy. Give everything up!"

Sorry, the purpose of God's law was to show men they were sinners so that they would turn to Christ by trusting in him. This makes men/women righteous. Not how much money they give.

So lot of Christ's teaching was to actually put men and women in despair--and it worked. People were like "How then can we be saved?!" Christ told people to be perfect as their heavenly father is perfect. That wasn't to make people happy. "Really? God will love me when I'm perfect! Great! I will do that!"

No. This hard teaching of Christ was to the opposite--put self-righteous people who trust in their ability to keep the law in despair.

The point is, the law is all or nothing. You keep 100% of it or you fail. Since none of us can keep 100% of it, we all fail. Hence, we all need a savior. Hence, we need to trust in Christ.

Unfortunately, some people (like the ancient Pharisees) actually DO think they are good enough. The Pharisees thought they were keeping the law, giving enough, doing enough, avoiding sin, etc. Christ was showing them that, no, they weren't keeping the law, because it's not good enough to not commit adultery--if you really want to be good enough for God, you must not even think lustful thoughts, must give everything to God, must be morally perfect and as holy as God is.

You seem to think Christ was giving commands that Christians should obey to be good Christians. No. Many of Christ's commands were given to self-righteous people to destroy their righteous pretensions so that they would then be ready to turn to God in faith rather than cling to their law-abiding ability.

Please read the rest of the New Testament. There is nothing wrong with being rich. God tells us to give what we can give joyfully, not under compulsion, because he loves a cheerful giver.

By the way, telling people what they must do or must not do is exactly what causes more spiritual failure and lack of progress. Your post would do nothing more than heap guilt and frustration on them without giving them any power to live in the way you say they should live!

People need to turn to Christ in faith. That produces the kind of life God desires. It is the grace of God that teaches men to say no to ungodliness. (Titus 2: 12)

Rules have NO POWER to restrain sin. In fact, they do the opposite--they arouse it. Stir it up. (See Romans 7)

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I'd like to address a few of your points that I strongly disagree with. First off, before you start calling me a fool (or any other such name), I will point out that I am a Christian.

MATTHEW 19:24 - "It is easier for a camel to pass the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven."

Phil Robertson owns a vast business and is himself a wealthy man. As a Christian, I don't want my children being subjected to that filth. My Lord condemns it. I don't want them seeing such sinners on TV. They may begin to idolize, or even worse emulate the disgusting lifestyle of the Robertsons.

So what if he owns a successful business and is wealthy?? Do you know how many people in the Bible were richer than Phil, and became wealthy because of their faith in God? Probably the best example would be Solomon. God gave Solomon the chance to ask for anything he wanted, and Solomon chose wisdom. Because God was pleased with his choice, He gave him riches and fame as well. Now, he later turned away from God because his heart became proud, but it wasn't the fact that he was rich and powerful. He let it all get to his head, and became full of himself.

Furthermore, Jesus wasn't saying that being rich keeps you from entering heaven, merely that it can be difficult, especially if you have grown attached to your things. If you read the next two verses, MATTHEW 19:25-26, "When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, 'Who then can be saved?' But Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'" Thus He was confirming that anyone can enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY through God.

Conclusion: Is being wealthy or famous a sin? NO. Only does it become a sin if you allow it to become the center of your life.

LUKE 14:33 - "Any who does not give up all his possessions, cannot be My follower."

Christ clearly says that he does not count the wealthy among his followers. If you have not given up your possessions to the poor, you are NOT following the commandments of Christ and thus cannot consider yourself a follower.

This could be interpreted a couple different ways. It appears (from a literalist viewpoint) that He is saying that you must give away EVERYTHING you own. However, I take it to mean that you must give up all of the things from your former life (unsaved life) and take up the new things of Him. You don't have to sell every last possession, rather, let go of all the things that keep you from coming to Him.

Conclusion: Jesus did not mean that you must give away every single possession you own, but instead, let go of all things keeping you from serving Him.

MATTHEW 7:1 - "Judge not, lest ye be judged.....HYPOCRITE! First remove the log from your own eye. Otherwise, how can you see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's?"

Christ here tells us that we're all living in sin and that one cannot point out the sin in others, due to the overwhelming burden of sin they, themselves carry.

By making this post, you are contradicting not only your own beliefs, but the Bible, which you claim to strictly adhere to! You condemned the Robertsons as wealthy sinners, no less, and in doing so, have gone against this very scripture. Now, don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with making righteous judgments (in fact, that is a good thing), but judging others and condemning them as sinners is no more your right than it is mine. Only God has the right to judge people.

Conclusion: While we can lovingly point out to others when they're living in unrighteousness, it is not our place to pronounce judgment on them.

THIS IS MOSTLY ADDRESSED TO THE FOOLS OUT THERE WHO CONSIDER ROBERTSON A "FAITHFUL CHRISTIAN". Clearly he is not. I'm not either, but ones own morals should be internally consistent.

Hold on, now I'm confused. Earlier in your post you said this: "As a Christian, I don't want my children being subjected to that filth. My Lord condemns it." Now you are saying that you are not a faithful Christian? On top of that, you are putting yourself on a pedestal as Phil Robertson's judge? If either of you is a hypocrite, it's you, my friend.

Now this is beginning to turn into a rant, so in closing, the point of my argument is that I simply wanted to inform you that your interpretations of these scriptures are not entirely accurate, and your judging the Robertsons is not backed up by scripture. Even though I feel you are being hypocritical, I am not going to say, "You aren't a Christian," or "You aren't going to heaven," but simply, I will pray for you.

In the end, no one has the right to say whether Phil Robertson is going to heaven or hell, but God alone.

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What a scary thread this is. You OP seem like the biggest FOOL of them all, believing in a book that was written at such a time in history when very little was understood of the earth and it's inhabitants itself, let alone the universe.
Not to mention how Un-Christian your behaviour is by calling others 'fools' if they say something you don't agree with.

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So I guess you are saying we know everything about everything nowadays?

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So I guess you are saying we know everything about everything nowadays?


Not at all. In fact we are aware (well some are) that we know even less about the universe as a whole then what we know about it. However I can say with certainty that we know a lot more now then we did back then. If we were to presume that we know absolutely everything then it will be a sad day for all of us.

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My point is that, while we understand more about the world and universe around us, we (most likely) still understand very little in the grand scheme.

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My point is that, while we understand more about the world and universe around us, we (most likely) still understand very little in the grand scheme.

Agreed.

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Conclusion: Jesus did not mean that you must give away every single possession you own, but instead, let go of all things keeping you from serving Him.

Conclusion: Is being wealthy or famous a sin? NO. Only does it become a sin if you allow it to become the center of your life.


Typical capitalist apologia. The Bible made it clear that to find paradise one in fact couldn't remain as a rich sinner. Wealth and capital are impediments to salvation. Hence these from Acts:

42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

I especially like "They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need." which of course is very similar to the later "from each according to his ability to each to his need" that conservative mammon-worshipers despise and claim is against God. Because these capitalists aren't even Christians they merely use their own misinterpretations of the Bible to justify the evils they support.

5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.

5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened.

6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”

“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.


The thing is (un-)Christians though always find ridiculous illogical ways to deny the obvious meaning of all the statements in the Bible in support of what we'd now call Christian Socialism, while at the same time finding strange mistranslated they can interpret as saying doctors should be murdered for performing abortions or that Homosexuality is the biggest sin... or that Socialists are going to Hell for denying God's will or some-other-such-nonsense. Ridiculous.

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Too many people read something in the Bible and apply meaning to it without considering the immediate context.

Christians did not continue this practice of having all things in common. It didn't even last beyond the book of Acts. At that time the church only existed in and around Jerusalem and all Christians were Jewish. The having all things in common was a temporary measure only during the infancy of Christianity when Jewish Christians faced ostracism from Jewish society for becoming a follower of Christ and needed each other's support to survive.

As Christianity spread and new local churches were established throughout other Jewish communities, among the Gentiles, and eventually throughout the Roman Empire and other regions this practice of "Christian socialism" ceased. Nor was it ever a command for all Christians in the first place. It was voluntary (and still is if any Christians want to live that way). Ananias and Sapphira were not punished for not giving all of the money. The apostle Peter told them that it was at their disposal. They were punished for LYING about the amount. They could have said we sold some land and we're giving this much of the profit. That would have been fine, but they lied and said they had given all because they wanted to impress others in the Jerusalem church with their extreme generosity.

As for the rich young ruler told to sell all and follow Jesus, that was a unique command for that individual. He had the opportunity to LITERALLY follow Jesus as one of disciples upon the earth throughout his ministry. He was told to do the same thing as Peter, Andrew, James, and John when they left their fishing boats and meager livelihood to literally follow Jesus and become "fishers of men." The young man could have been another Peter or John, but he couldn't let go of his wealth. The Bible calls Christians today to spiritually follow Jesus. No one today can physically follow Christ in the flesh as that rich young man had the opportunity to do.

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Nor was it ever a command for all Christians in the first place. It was voluntary (and still is if any Christians want to live that way).


I think it is actually obvious what Jesus meant by "any who does not give up all his possessions, cannot be My follower." There may be ambiguity in some of the quotes the Pharaoh used but not in that quote, which is literally something Jesus says.

I disagree that the act of giving up possessions was voluntary. All the early Christian communities actually consisted of member who gave up all they owned. It is only when the religion started to gain richer followers in the Roman Empire did giving up all possession miraculously became a matter of choice. Also Jesus says that it is easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to reach heaven. Some people have tried to revise the meaning of this phrase, claiming that ''camel'' means ''thread'' but this is just revisionist, capitalist nonsense. The ''camel'' that Jesus referred to was literally a camel. Some people also claim that the ''eye of the needle'' was actually the nickname of a tight gate to the city of Jerusalem but just as the Hebrews never used ''camel'' as a nickname for thread, they never called any gate in the city, ''the eye of the needle''.

Full quote:

''I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.''

A clever passage from the Bible. The real meaning is that the rich will never be able to naturally enter heaven, though god may choice to allow it (image some really good rich guy today who spends his wealth on the poor and the needed, these are obviously the sort of rich people that god would save). ''Christians'' like to misinterpret this quote so they can continue to worship ''mammon'' (the capitalist system) in the guise of Jesus whilst discriminating against homosexuals and other groups.

Many ''Christian'' churches teach right-wing politics and anti-socialism in the guise of the Christian religion. If it was not found in their own Bibles they would condemn the following:

"He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise." - Luke 3:11

Similar quotes have been used to explain true socialism for years, including, rather famously, in the movie 'Missing'. Already others have quoted 2 Thessalonians 3:10, an early example of the socialist idea of ''to each according to his ability, to each according to his needs''. Ephesians 4:28 rehashes the same idea:

"Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth."

Two more choice quotes:

"Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you." - James 5:1-6

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." - 1 Timothy 6:10













This damned burg's getting me. If I don't get away soon I'll be going blood-simply like the natives.

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I think it is actually obvious what Jesus meant by "any who does not give up all his possessions, cannot be My follower." There may be ambiguity in some of the quotes the Pharaoh used but not in that quote, which is literally something Jesus says.


Read the entire surrounding passage to understand the context. Jesus was on Earth in the flesh. To literally follow him in the flesh and be a part of his mission his disciples had to leave everything behind. Peter, Andrew, James, and John left their boats, Matthew left his tax office, but the rich man would not leave what he had to literally follow Jesus. Peter even compares their situation to his.

I disagree that the act of giving up possessions was voluntary. All the early Christian communities actually consisted of member who gave up all they owned. It is only when the religion started to gain richer followers in the Roman Empire did giving up all possession miraculously became a matter of choice. Also Jesus says that it is easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to reach heaven. Some people have tried to revise the meaning of this phrase, claiming that ''camel'' means ''thread'' but this is just revisionist, capitalist nonsense. The ''camel'' that Jesus referred to was literally a camel. Some people also claim that the ''eye of the needle'' was actually the nickname of a tight gate to the city of Jerusalem but just as the Hebrews never used ''camel'' as a nickname for thread, they never called any gate in the city, ''the eye of the needle''.



It was voluntary because Peter says that the money was theirs while it remained in their possession. Once the purpose (ostracism from Jewish society) for this communal living passed, so did the practice. The Jerusalem church and others did not continue the practice and this was while the apostles were still among them speaking with divine authority.

Jesus speaks of the difficulty for a rich man to enter the kingdom with the camel analogy, but as part of that same statement about the camel he also says that "the things which are impossible with man are possible with God." (Luke 18:27)

Many ''Christian'' churches teach right-wing politics and anti-socialism in the guise of the Christian religion. If it was not found in their own Bibles they would condemn the following:


This is sadly true. There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about socialism, but there is no requirement to follow this extreme form of it that was only meant as temporary.

All of the other verses you mention teach of the generous spirit the Christian should have. The pursuit of wealth and possessions is not to be the driving force in a Christian life.

But having wealth that is acquired honestly and with hard work that doesn't harm others or puts it ahead of God and Christ is not wrong either. Paul writes of Christian masters with servants. Anyone with servants has a certain level of wealth. God through Paul did not command them to give it all away.

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Read the entire surrounding passage to understand the context. Jesus was on Earth in the flesh. To literally follow him in the flesh and be a part of his mission his disciples had to leave everything behind. Peter, Andrew, James, and John left their boats, Matthew left his tax office, but the rich man would not leave what he had to literally follow Jesus. Peter even compares their situation to his.


I have read the surrounding passages and, more importantly, read them in context with the other quotes, which I fear most Christians do not do. Jesus commanded his followers to live a communistic lifestyle. They may, if they so wish, refuse to follow him in this way but to do so is clearly risky and seen as a sin. Christians are free to live as a true Christian, that of a Christian ''communist'', or not, but the problem is that they tend to distort Biblical passages in an atttempt to solidify support for the modern capitalist system (mammon-worship). Quotes that, semantically, mean the same thing as Biblical quotes are declared to be evil and un-Bibical simply because they can be found in anti-capitalist works (such as Karl Marx's 'Das Kapital'). They are not true believers of the Christian god to begin so it is not surprising that they don't simply argue that Christian socialism is a valid, Biblically-supported lifestyle, , but also lie and declare it ''un-Christian'', despite the fact it was the lifestyle practiced by Jesus and the apostles. It is just so dishonest and despicable.

Also, it is ironic that Fundamentalist Christians are often so keen on holding outdated views (homophobia for one thing), yet, when it comes down to the actual Christian lifestyle, they try all they can to escape it by distorting and, deliberately, misinterpreting Biblical passages. A camel is a camel and the eye of the needle is just that, not simply a narrow gate.


It was voluntary because Peter says that the money was theirs while it remained in their possession.


You have to read that passages in context with other commandments from Jesus Christ, which I have already posted. It is voluntary in so much as any choice in Christianity is but it is sin, an overattachment to mammon.

"the things which are impossible with man are possible with God."


Indeed. I believe I did refer to this. However, ammassing wealth and living in a lifestyle akin to modern capitalism is certainly against the will of God. If God deems SOME rich people worthy of saving, he can. His powers are illimitable and he is, contrary to the hateful picture fundies have painted of Him, just, good and merciful. But, in general, as is clear, I think, with the quotes I posted, richness is associated with wickedness and Jesus Christ instructs his followers to live in a clearly communistic lifestyle as it is simply the right thing to do, and the closest there is to the kingdom of heaven (where there will be no want and inequality amongst men, with the only king being God). He is not coercive so of course it is voluntary, just as it is voluntary worship him anyway. It is all choice. All free will.

This is sadly true. There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about socialism, but there is no requirement to follow this extreme form of it that was only meant as temporary.


Or was it? Just because the Christian community changed in the Roman Empire, it doesn't mean that a communistic life was meant to be temporary, only that it was difficult for citizens of the empire to follow it (though most Christian communities of the poor were still communistic even into the Middle-Ages). Charity, equality and community are core values of Christianity so it is only logical that Christians shoudl build their life on those principles. The only way of doing that would be living in a fair, non-coercive and non-violent socialist society that helps the weak and the poor; a star contrast to capitalist society.

But having wealth that is acquired honestly and with hard work that doesn't harm others or puts it ahead of God and Christ is not wrong either.


Wealth acquired honsetly is the nature of socialist believe. Those who work get what they deserve. Those who work the most get the most, and those who do not work as hard are looked after, as is the nature of charity and community.

But having wealth that is acquired honestly and with hard work that doesn't harm others or puts it ahead of God and Christ is not wrong either. Paul writes of Christian masters with servants. Anyone with servants has a certain level of wealth. God through Paul did not command them to give it all away.


Paul was writing at a time when many Roman elites had already joined Christianity (especially in places liek Greece) so that isn't surprising, although it isn't exactly impossible for a socialist to have servants, most Fabians were wealthy so they did, as long as they do treat them like equal human beings who are simply doing a job that helps you. However, I do not view Pauline Christianity as the be all and end all of Christianity. Paul was a fallible man and was simply part of one Christian factor who eventually became the main branch due to events like the council of Nicea.







This damned burg's getting me. If I don't get away soon I'll be going blood-simply like the natives.

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I have to agree with your sentiments. What really gets me is the Robertson kin spend most of the year killing God's creature, not for food, but because they enjoy killing. That is a fundamental disconnect with the teachings of Christ.

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Um, you do realize they eat what they kill, right?

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What they enjoy is HUNTING. There is nothing wrong with it, and if you check your Bible, you'll find many references to the activity. As mentioned above they eat what they kill. Unless you don't eat meat at all, the only difference between you and the Robertson's is that you have somebody else do your dirty work for you.

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I have to agree with your sentiments. What really gets me is the Robertson kin spend most of the year killing God's creature, not for food, but because they enjoy killing. That is a fundamental disconnect with the teachings of Christ.


sarain... I agree that the Robbersons do enjoy killing.. I have heard stories about their DUCK COMMANDER and BUCK COMMANDER videos, where they giggle like 6 year old girls as they wipe out a flock of ducks, or gut a deer.

In their latest, cheaply produced garbage Episode.. one of the Bearded Uglies wants to take his son frog killing rather than attend his HS graduation.. the reason, because he didn't attend his graduation and opted to kill frogs instead.. great role models.. and great "Family Values".

The one "Bearded Ugly" passed on a Pro Football career, because it would interfere with hunting Season.. the "Robbersons" own hundreds of acres under the duck migratory routes, to maximize kills and wipe out entire flocks.. and the "Bearded Uglies" have been known to cancel guest appearances.. to kill animals.

Even though A&E sugar coats the Robbersons... no matter how much sugar you put on a turd.. inside you still have a turd.









"My new policy..you don't agree with what I say.. GFY and welcome to my Ignore List"

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In one of this year's new episodes, Gov. Bobby Jindal appears. He was born Hindu both converted to Catholicism----how could Phil stand being around that papist???????? (sarcasm--am a Catholic myself)

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The Governor of the great State of Louisiana was on the Premiere Episode.. you and I are the only ones to make mention of it... he gave the bearded frauds some kind of award.. so I guess they had no problem being around him...







"My new policy..you don't agree with what I say.. GFY and welcome to my Ignore List"

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Why would they have a problem being around him?

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Perhaps you need to have more proof of things than just "I have heard stories." I could easily have "heard stories" saying a lot of things.....

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Have you sir given ALL of your possessions to charity? Sure its easy to say that with all the possessions the Robertsons have that if they sold them it would feed a lot of kids, but If you think about it the same could be said of you. Let me ask your some questions. Do you own a house? a car? a TV? furniture? I assume by the fact that you are commenting on a website you own a computer right? All these things would feed a lot a kids too. I am a Christian and I consider the Robertsons good Christians.

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