MovieChat Forums > Puberty Blues (2012) Discussion > A LOT of problems with this show...

A LOT of problems with this show...

posted 10 years ago by j-ariel-ellis-617-297095
18 replies | jump to latest

Firstly, I want to start off by saying it's awesome that they actually deal with the topic of abortion, and they don't portray it as some evil, life ruining thing. If shows in America so much as mention abortion in a non-negative light, they get cancelled (see: Moral Orel).

Now I wanted to like this show, I really did. But I can't escape from the fact that:
1. Almost all the characters are completely one-dimensional, or just plain boring/lacking depth. Where there has been ample opportunity for character development, they have instead chosen to throw in petty, predictable drama.
2. Nearly all the younger characters witnessed someone being raped on multiple occasions and DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. This is hard to forget and actually makes me dislike all of them. Those events completely undermined any chance of me giving a *beep* how any of them feel.
3. Another thing that worsens the above situation: they keep hanging around with rapists. Is there really no other group they could run around with? From what I remember in the movie, the girls eventually moved on and denounced the whole scene. They stopped hanging around those guys. In the show, they've continued hanging about, which leaves a lot of issues even more open-ended, i.e. the repeated gang rape of that girl. What's most puzzling is she seems to have disappeared. It's almost as though she didn't really matter. She was just there for Debbie and Sue to have their moment of being heroic (or as most people would call it: common decency) before things more less went back to being the same.

All this leaves me thinking is, the movie should have just stayed a movie. If they remade it, that would've been fine. Turning it into a show has resulted in some lackluster story lines.

[–] CoastalMigration 10 years ago

I'm also annoyed by all the rape in this show. There was another one in the last episode too.

I think the purpose is to show how truly sexist this society is. Girls who are totally drunk are raped and then called sluts. Guys cheat on their wives and they can do nothing about it. Women are treated like complete crap.

It is important to show that side of 70s life, but I wish it could provide critical social commentary. As in, someone should react negatively to all this stuff! The gender violence in this show (drunk rapes, date rape, gang rape) still happens to girls and they're still called sluts for it, so I worry that it being portrayed so uncritically in this TV show normalizes this behavoiur.

[–] Sugarminx 10 years ago

"I think the purpose is to show how truly sexist this society is. Girls who are totally drunk are raped and then called sluts. Guys cheat on their wives and they can do nothing about it. Women are treated like complete crap."

Correct.

That's what it was like then. You have NO idea how much men were worshipped in those days - it was sickening.

OP is making a mistake in applying current values to 70s Australia. What people put up with then, we wouldn't stand for now.

It's shocking to see a group young men use a girl for their own sexual gratification, while other girls stand by and watch without batting an eyelid. Hard to imagine anyone putting up with that now.

Having said that, this show is amazingly accurate in portraying what it was like for kids back then. I was only a little girl in those days (not even 10) but I had much older siblings and I do remember it being like it is on PB.

"I wish it could provide critical social commentary. As in, someone should react negatively to all this stuff! The gender violence in this show (drunk rapes, date rape, gang rape) still happens to girls and they're still called sluts for it, so I worry that it being portrayed so uncritically in this TV show normalizes this behavoiur."

No. I disagree. It is a show about a particular period of time and I believe it is important for the characters to behave in a way that is consistent with how people behaved within that time period. (Although, it's only fair to point out that in the first season, Debbie and Sue did pull Frieda out of the back of that panel van after the boys had all taken their 'turns' with her. So there are some characters in the show that have a 'social conscience')

If people are silly enough to watch this show and then model their behaviour on it, then they really shouldn't be let loose in society to begin with!

It would be like watching a film about Henry VIII and instead of having him behead his wives, they enter into a series of couples counselling sessions - because we're worried that people might start chopping their spouse's heads off at the first sign of trouble. Madness.

You fill me with inertia - George Spiggott

[–] CoastalMigration 10 years ago

I agree that it is important to preserve historical accuracy.

I only said that I worry that it normalizes rapey behaviour. In America today, you hear all the time of girls being raped by guys who don't go to jail because their small town covers it up or they're let off the hook because they're the high school football team. I don't know how it is in Australia, but it is really really common in the USA. People DO put up with this stuff. Girls openly raped in parties aren't protected by bystanders who watch and tape it. There is little difference between what I see in Puberty Blues and a lot of the slut-shaming rapist-protecting mentality in the USA today. If this doesn't happen in Australia today, then I want to move there!

[–] Sugarminx 10 years ago

Well I guess it's been a while since I was a teen or hung with them so I can't really comment on what goes on these days...so don't pack your bags just yet ;)

Ok I didn't really want to get into this, but I think we have to talk about what constitutes rape. Even in those days, I do think that if a violent rape was occuring, someone would have stepped in or called the police.

What we're seeing in PB is young girls who are being pressured into sleeping with guys. The girls in this show (with the exception of Cheryl and her mum's boyfriend) are actually consenting. They may not be sure that it's what they want, they may even want to say no, but they're not verbalising it or in any other way making it clear that they want it to stop. Girls were SO keen to win the approval of boys and/or get a boyfriend that they would do almost ANYTHING.

This is what other girls (and boys) are witnessing and doing nothing about. The witnesses may get a sense that the girl in question is not that into it, but they just let it go (once again with the exception of the Frieda incident - she was letting those guys use her *until* Debbie and Brenna actually asked her if she wanted out).

You fill me with inertia - George Spiggott

[–] CoastalMigration 10 years ago

The rape I'm referring to occurred in the last episode (season 2 episode 5) where Debbie's friend from school is totally unconscious and one of the guys tries to have sex with her. This type of rape is common in the USA, especially at parties. Rape can exist without violence. That is non-consensual, so that is rape. I turned off the TV for a few seconds when this happened, so I'm not sure if it was completed or attempted.

But, yeah, it's interesting to hear your experiences of what life was like in Australia during that time!

[–] j-ariel-ellis-617-297095 10 years ago

I've lived in both Australia and America. It happens in both countries. It'd be ridiculous to think otherwise.

[–] Sugarminx 10 years ago

"The rape I'm referring to occurred in the last episode (season 2 episode 5) where Debbie's friend from school is totally unconscious and one of the guys tries to have sex with her. This type of rape is common in the USA, especially at parties. Rape can exist without violence. That is non-consensual, so that is rape. I turned off the TV for a few seconds when this happened, so I'm not sure if it was completed or attempted."

Absolutely right *if* Bruce had actually continued that reprehensible behaviour and had sex with an unconscious girl that would have been rape. No argument. Luckily Debbie came in and rescued her friend before the idiot could get her pants off. So, no rape occurred in the end.

You fill me with inertia - George Spiggott

[–] j-ariel-ellis-617-297095 10 years ago

I get what you're saying, but I just feel the show doesn't deal with the issue properly. A lot of period piece shows these days seem to be modeled off Mad Men, i.e. they portray things as they actually were without trying to sugar coat it. However, I can't imagine someone being gang raped on Mad Men and then thrown aside like they don't matter.

The girls in this show (with the exception of Cheryl and her mum's boyfriend) are actually consenting. They may not be sure that it's what they want, they may even want to say no, but they're not verbalising it or in any other way making it clear that they want it to stop.

Silence is not consent. How can you say it's consent when they don't want it? That doesn't make any sense.

Also you're forgetting about the scene in [I think] the first episode when a girl was being attacked on the beach and was about to be violently raped. She was screaming. No one did anything.

[–] Sugarminx 10 years ago

"How can you say it's consent when they don't want it? That doesn't make any sense."

These girls were often giving in to peer pressure or they just wanted a boyfriend. They wanted to fit in and to fit in they felt they had to have sex with the guys. Or they wanted a boyfriend and in those days a lot of guys wouldn't give you the time of day unless you did the deed (as evidenced in this show).

For all intents and purposes it looks like the girls are into it, they go off into another room or into the back of a panel van and consent to the 'act'. They say yes not because they actually want to do it but because they want the 'reward' i.e. to fit in, or the guy - it's still consent.

"Also you're forgetting about the scene in [I think] the first episode when a girl was being attacked on the beach and was about to be violently raped. She was screaming. No one did anything"

Well you're right in a sense: I have forgotten that scene. I actually don't remember it at all. But what is it *about* this scene that I am forgetting? That a girl was attacked? That someone intended to violently rape her? That no one did anything?

Without knowledge of that scene it's hard to comment, but I think I should point out that I don't for one moment suggest that rape never happened or that people were incapable of apathy.

I am saying that there were many girls who consented to sex because they wanted to be part of 'the gang' or because they wanted a boyfriend. And *that* isn't rape.

You fill me with inertia - George Spiggott

[–] j-ariel-ellis-617-297095 10 years ago

I never said every instance of sex with those guys was rape tho? Just Frieda and the girl from the first episode.

[–] j-ariel-ellis-617-297095 10 years ago

Unless you're more so talking about Frieda? I can understand why maybe the girls weren't sure, but she wasn't getting anything out of it. To me, it was obviously non-consensual. It was even more obvious in the movie. When they went up and asked and she said no, she didn't want it, that confirmed it. So then why keep hanging out with them? All that does is reaffirm that kind of stuff as okay. It's just frustrating to watch.

[–] Spunky_Star 10 years ago

I have to agree with Slinkyplanb. This show truly shows how things were in the 70's. Remember this show is based off a book.

I think unfortunately this thread has gotten off topic and is now arguing "what is rape".

Puberty Blues is not trying to "reaffirm that kind of stuff (rape) as okay". It was just being true to the time and the text. You have to remember, it may not seem like it, but this period was around 40 years ago, a time when Rape was a taboo topic and not very clear on the definition. It wasn't talked about and most women were left feeling ashamed and responsible.

Of course we all know now what constitutes as rape, it is widely discussed publically and even spoken about in schools, depicted in a lot of TV shows (Look at SVU) and it is drilled into us the victim is not at fault, but 40 years ago it was very black and white and more than likely the girls (and boys) of the 70s had an idea in their heads as to what rape was and what they were seeing/doing, wasn't it.

Laws were really different back then and just because feminism had started, doesn't mean it had made a lot of headway. A man could force his wife to have sex and it wasn't rape, a women walking down the street and assaulted by a stranger - rape. A girl too drunk to say no - not rape.
The law may be free from emotion, but the police officers, men, that enforced them, weren't.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that what is depicted in this TV show is not rape by todays standards, I believe it is, I'm just saying back then, it may not have been that clear and that is what the show really depicts.

Also, don't assume this show does any such thing as make rape ok. I think if anyone thinks that way, they were already leaning towards thinking that way. My friends and I (male and female) all watch the show and discuss how crazy it is the girls back then let the boys use Frieda that way or why the girls let themselves be treated so badly, or how even some of the mothers have a warped view of things.

Actually, even as I write this, I'm realising that what this show has done for the people I know, is the complete opposite of what you believe may happen, for us it has just re-affirmed that this kind of behaviour and treatment of others is definitely not okay and shouldn't be tolerated. Had we not seen it in the show, we wouldn't even be discussing it... in a way, much like this thread :)

So maybe the producers had that in mind the whole time, to get people talking about it. That's how the laws (especially about rape) were changed after all.

What did people do before IMDB???

[–] ellis-jas 10 years ago

I meant reaffirm in the context of the characters and their world. I don't mean this show is pro-sexual assault or whatever you got out of it. That still doesn't take away from how frustrating it was to watch. Sorry if I offended anyone... It's just my opinion.

[–] IZON-Entertainment 10 years ago

Firstly, I want to say that I think thinking its awesome that they deal with abortion is showing a curious low threshold for be awed.

Now, I always want to like any show I have taken time to view, but I can't escape the fact that:
1. Almost all the characters are very realistic and the fact that you find them one dimensional and boring may speak to the fact that most real people are not especially as "multi-dimensional" and exciting as many TV characters are portrayed. The petty predictable drama is likewise typical of real life. Not everyone has the type of experiences that are jammed into an episode of Breaking Bad.
2. You can hate the characters for not doing something about the witnessed rape but again I believe the show strives for a sense of reality rather providing a hero for you to pull for.
3. Another thing that seems to ooze gritty realism is how life goes on without every bad situation being resolved by our favorite protagonist or there always being a major character transformation as all are healed. Of course there are "better groups" for some of the teens to hang out with- but often time the beta club and chess team aren't looking for drug using surfer dudes. I don't know how the movie went, but this is the TV series and I commend all involved for providing an alternative to a look at the storybook families as seen in so many TV sagas and having the balls to write a gritty outlook into the lives of some truly believable characters and storylines. Thanks and keep it up!

[–] ellis-jas 10 years ago

is showing a curious low threshold for be awed.

All I meant was that abortion is such a polarizing and taboo topic. I was surprised to see a show on TV even mention it, let alone write it into the storyline of one of their main characters. Most shows side step around the issue for a reason. I think it was kind of brave on their part. Is that a horrible thing for me to say? I'm not really sure what you're getting at... mostly because I don't understand the construction of that sentence.

I think literally everyone is multi-dimensional. Why wouldn't you?? People are incredibly complex. Also, multi-dimensional =/= exciting.

I never said I wanted high action and high drama. Good dialogue would suffice.

It would have been nice if the characters did something about the women being assaulted. Maybe I would have found it easier to care about them if they did, but that isn't the only option. It was more so the fact that the whole thing got tossed aside. That was annoying. Again, just my opinion. I don't want to rustle any feathers here, and honestly I don't even care anymore. Just wanted to clarify some things.

[–] hecklejecklelove-665-268403 9 years ago

Here in Australia at the time this show is based, what you saw on the screen is pretty much what wouldve happened. The two main characters arent heroes, theyre followers, and the scene with Cheryl shows this. As they gained confidence in the group they realised that these 'cool kids' arent really that cool. As for Cheryl herself, she was like the two main characters, except instead of trying to infiltrate the group like they did, she tried to get the boys to like her by giving out sex. As she found out, it didnt work, it gave her a reputation and she probably decided to just go with it because she didnt want to say no incase they made her school life hell. Technically (from memory) it wasnt rape. No she didnt want it, but she wasnt saying no until the two girls asked her if she wanted it.

Unfortunately this was simply how it was. As for why the girls stayed with the group, Bebbie had a boyfriend in the group plus the girls simply didnt want to make waves. These were the 'cool kids' and making waves wouldve meant being kicked out of the group and being bullied at school. Were Debbie and Sue right to remain with a group of pot smoking, alcohol drinking rapists? No, they werent, but this show, as with the film, is about the coming of age of two young girls who figure out whats right and whats wrong themselves.

If you havnt yet, I suggest you watch the movie. Its not as good as the tv show, but its still good and shows the girls coming of age and figuring stuff out over the faster course of a feature length movie...

But give the TV show a good chance. The story is of Debbie and Sue's (and a few of the other characters) coming of age in a very sexist era... If the girls all of a sudden decided that what was happening was wrong and became mature enough to decide to do their own thing and be themselves then it wouldnt be a tv series, it would be a movie or a mini-series. This is a tv series, and I am hoping for a final season to complete the story of these two girls' coming of age.

Again... Watch the movie to get an idea of what might, and indeed should be coming.

hjl

[–] hecklejecklelove-665-268403 9 years ago

I said Cheryl... But I realised that wasnt who I meant... I meant the girl in the panel van. Sorry.

hjl

[–] 10 years ago

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