MovieChat Forums > Monday Mornings (2013) Discussion > Real M and M Conferences

Real M and M Conferences

posted 11 years ago by shoobeedo
22 replies | jump to latest

For those who have asked, hospitals do have Mortality and Morbidity Conferences weekly. However, they are nothing like what's shown on this TV show.

First, it's a standard thing. The Chief of Staff does not "summon" everyone to them.

Second, Attendings and Fellows with interesting cases PRESENT these cases to the rest of the staff, often with visual aids like slides of tumors.

Third, I have NEVER seen the Chief of Staff use this to berate his colleagues or underlings. Yes, they do discuss any deaths, i.e. the "mortality" part of the M and M. But the discussion is a teaching situation, not a shameful one. Doctors don't cringe at the idea of going to M and M worrying who is going to get picked on. Certainly legal cases are NOT discussed.

Lastly, missing are the COOKIES AND COFFEE. And the admin. asst. who bring them. One of the reasons that Residents and Fellows like this meeting is that it gives them 30 minutes to sit down and drink a cup of coffee and eat a cookie, usually these huge chocolate chip ones from the hospital cafeteria.

I worked at UCLA Hospital for more than 10 years and saw many of these conferences and while the idea of presenting this is interesting, what is being presented here is NOT what goes on. Yes, this IS tv and there is dramatic license, but it seems that in the name of dramatic license, the entire basis for M and M has been undercut. It's a teaching arena, not lions and gladiators..

[–] Schlacko 11 years ago

I like it the way it is. They're more likely to learn if they get called out like this. The way you describe would make for a tedious documentary, not a medical drama.

[–] shoobeedo 11 years ago

Sorry, but I have to disagree. You don't learn by being embarrassed by your peers. Yes it's more dramatic, but it's not how it's done in reality. And the presentations were interesting, within their fields of expertise. The entire hospital doesn't attend M and M; it's departmental. So you'd only have (for instance) all of OB GYN there or all of Pediatrics. Yes, it's tv, but it could aspire to be truthful. How would you like it if someone wrote about your life, but made up 70% of what they wrote?

Not to mention the legality of the head of a hospital pinpointing something wrong. He'd be called to testify at every medical malpractice hearing.

[–] megafauna005 11 years ago

Good points shoobeedo. It's another reason why this show is dumb as hell! Gupta is cool but I don't know why the hell he veered off into medical fiction like this!

[–] Schlacko 11 years ago

You don't learn by being embarrassed by your peers.

Of course you would... who could forget being called out by Hooten like that? They'll remember it, they'll remember what they did wrong and they'll remember what they should have done.

[–] shoobeedo 11 years ago

You missed what I said about litigation. If the Chief called out anyone like that, it could be used in any lawsuit. Hospitals are particular not to place blame. That's partly why so many bad docs continue to practice.

But factually, it just doesn't happen like that. The Chief may suggest a better way to do something next time, but point a finger and say that you're "007" with a license to kill? (That's coming I'm sure; "Grey's Anatomy" said it first season." Never would happen in a public meeting. Any admission would make them liable; every doc there would be a witness. Maybe in private in his office he's say that to the doctor, but not in THAT arena. Yes, it's very dramatic, but it's not what happens in M and M.

[–] slacking101 11 years ago

" You don't learn by being embarrassed by your peers."
Clearly you've never been pimped by your attending. That's what medical students go through for the last 2 years of their education. It's humiliating. But trust me, you never forget what you've learned from a pimping session.

[–] megafauna005 11 years ago

Watching that dumb redcoat Molina is crazy! As many of you have pointed he keeps doing and saying things a real doctor would never do! I saw the repeat this AM and almost fell asleep!

This show is BORING!

[–] LawRx 9 years ago

In CA (and in other states, I imagine), the proceedings of peer review procedures like these conferences are protected by evidentiary privilege because it's good public policy. So the malpractice issue is a red herring. .

[–] megafauna005 9 years ago

This show was a snoozefest and that's why it was canceled!

Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!

[–] nitrourea 11 years ago

In real life the chief of these dept are chosen based on their peer assessments. There is no way Molina can keep his job permanently if he makes an enemy of everyone, including the senior staffs who might go after his seat one day.

[–] ShrinkMD 11 years ago

Agreed. I pointed this out in another thread. Though I like the show, this is something that continues to bother me week after week.

And yes! The cookies are key. Also missing are the CME sign in forms.

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Trust me, I'm a doctor.

[–] shoobeedo 11 years ago

I forgot about those sign in sheets for credit.

BTW, my daughter won't watch "House" with me because I point out all the mistakes. They must have killer malpractice insurance at that hospital. And at Seattle Grace.

And for those not in the medical field, malpractice insurance is so expensive that some docs stop practicing certain specialties. My friend's coverage for OB was $80K a year and he was only earning $85K a year with OB. Dropped it and is just a GYN with a specialty in ONC.

[–] ShrinkMD 11 years ago

Hehe, my ex did the same. Medical shows were off limits when we were watching the same TV.

Even without the ridiculous insurance rates, I have a hard time understanding what draws people to Ob/Gyn...

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Trust me, I'm a doctor.

[–] megafauna005 11 years ago

Well you don't have to worry about watching this too much longer since it's on the chopping block!

[–] Yorick_Brown 11 years ago

BTW, my daughter won't watch "House" with me because I point out all the mistakes. They must have killer malpractice insurance at that hospital. And at Seattle Grace.

I hate it when know-it-all viewers and audience members do something like that.

Why don't you learn to keep your mouth shut?

And for those not in the medical field, malpractice insurance is so expensive that some docs stop practicing certain specialties.

This country seriously needs the 'loser pays' system or at least some serious tort reform.

Take us down and all apart
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[–] windycheryl 11 years ago

shoobeedo,
So true about MDs quitting or changing specialties because of insurance cost. Lost a lot of good OB guys.

Take a chance, flip a coin, everything is 50/50

[–] ghostmasseur 11 years ago

ShrinkMD,

Like you, I am finding the technical and procedural (and even legal) issues annoying. I think that the casting was well done, and, as you have pointed out on other posts, the ethical and medical issues they have raised are interesting, but the tech/procedural screw ups are driving me to distraction.

And although an occasional grandiose M&M might be interesting to watch, the ones on this show have become so overblown as to exceed the wiggle room that TV dramas normally get. There is just so far that one can push the envelope.

It is a shame that Kelley has either not hired a medical consultant or hired an inept one.

[–] ShrinkMD 11 years ago

They are definitely pushing it with the M&M portrayals. Unfortunately, the whole show is centered on the drama that goes down on Monday mornings (hence the "judgment day" tag line) so I don't see it changing. I find the rest of the show worth watching so I'm willing to put up with it...for now.

And yes! How hard is it to run the script by a doc before filming? That said, I've seen shows that are far worse offenders...

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Trust me, I'm a doctor.

[–] ghostmasseur 11 years ago

I agree wholeheartedly.

I'll keep it programmed on my DVR with the option of deleting it.

Unfortunately there can and will be far worse that what they are doing.

And at least this show does not actually kill brain cells like Lizard Lick Towing, Honey Boo Boo and Desperate Housewh*res of Name A City (and since the people who watch those shows have very few brain cells to start with, that is scary.)

[–] windycheryl 11 years ago

shoobeedo,
Cookies and coffee?? In Fort Lauderdale we had lunch meetings. More like shrimp and fries. If you have to attend anyway might as well have good food. Course, the ICU nurses had staff meetings at the bar owned by the father of one of the RNs. Gotta love Fort Lauderdale!

Take a chance, flip a coin, everything is 50/50

[–] shoobeedo 11 years ago

Yes, but those lunch meetings were usually paid for by the drug reps, not the hospitals. Boy, miss those free toys and junkets that aren't allowed any more. [g]

No, M and M was strictly hospital business and they were too cheap to pay for anything but cookies and coffee. [g] And if you got there late, all the chocolate chips would be gone and you'd get stuff with the peanut butter cookies (thick and pasty).

[–] sluggr-2 8 years ago

Agree about the cessation of freebies. The chief of staff at the first place I worked forbade coffee and doughnuts at rounds because patients were sometimes brought in. One week he was absent, and there was food for all. The next week he circulated copies of a memo to himself from the "Celestial Neuroscience Society" where all the famous brain docs from history took him to task for his recent lack of standards. I believe it was Cushing who was particularly disturbed about the presence of a plate of what could only be described as suet and carcinogens (doughnuts). Sometimes the most uptight and pretentious are the funniest in the bunch. The sad part about TV medical shows is that there are real stories which are far more interesting and entertaining. One of our cases did trickle onto House and it was a bit unnerving because there were at most 20 people in the world who knew the specifics (off-label doesn't even begin to describe it). The average M and M at Hopkins was a couple of SD's off of normal just because we were the last ditch hope of so many people. There is a fine line between helping someone and committing a war crime. I was always impressed with the decision by the Scrubs people to air "My First Kill." Ben Casey it was not.

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