MovieChat Forums > Cult (2013) Discussion > NOOO!!! It can't end just like THAT! (Sp...

NOOO!!! It can't end just like THAT! (Spoilers!)


OMG the last and final episode was also the best! I'm so pissed that the show was already cancelled, I soooo want to know what happens to everybody. Does everyone or anybody survive?? Where were Stuart's former henchmen taking him, I mean it can be assumed they were taking him to be killed somewhere but where and does Stuart actually break free and survive somehow? So the bullet that shot Billy was real, will he die? And Skye and the gang finally meets her long-lost father that she and everybody else thought was dead, only for him to just pick up some ancient Atlantis inspired looking remote and then utter the infamous suicidal words "Well hey, these things just snap right off."!!!

I can't believe they just end the show like this!!! They need to do at least a an extra episode or a TV movie to answer all these questions!!!!


I wasn't begging for my life. I was offering you yours. ~ Sylar

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Based on what I saw from the final episode that Skye's father was the one behind the cult if i am correect and it seeems as though Billy was shot by however it was.

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[deleted]

Oh wow thank you Tav-El for the link. I knew Erasmus was a real person, I live in NYC and there is a high school here with that name. Its fascinating to read about his history and his contribution to the Renaissance. I wonder if Cult had be picked up for a few more seasons, maybe it would have taken a Da Vinci Code kind of storyline?


I wasn't begging for my life. I was offering you yours. ~ Sylar

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Teryl Rothery's character picked up the gun that shot Roger/Billy. She carefully covered it with a cloth so her fingerprints wouldn't get on it, hid it in her purse, and left the scene.

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This show had so much story potential... A shame they couldn't revive it!




---
Tell your god to ready for blood.

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Wow I can't believe that's how it ended.

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I'm disappointed it ended where it did but it was fun to watch.

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no. it SUCKED to watch. bring back Prison Break on FOX. bring back T-BAG

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Yes, we need more formulaic shows on TV.

---
"We fear new ideas."

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[deleted]

As if THAT had anything to do with this.

Esta es mi firma


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I liked it too. It had a lot of interesting ideas in it. I also liked that it led you to believe one thing and you could totally guess a lot of the answers ahead of time and the show acknowledged that too in a kind of "Yes you guessed it because most people are smart enough to catch on but just in case you haven't, we'll lay it out for you too but we'll still reward the original guess with a yes it's true but there's more behind it than you probably thought. Next mystery."
I knew Skye's dad had to be behind something somehow since the very beginning but a lot of the other little mysteries I appreciated because you never quite knew where they were going to go next beyond what you already guessed and maybe the next step too. Yet the story didn't seem bogged down or like someone making it up as they went. It was smart and I guess that's why it was cancelled. At least it was cancelled before it could become stupid and knowing the CW and ABC family it was bound to happen. Only exception to the rule is Nikita which has too good of and well known actors to let that happen.


"I totally saw his wolf junk"

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the whole point of cult is stephen rae

and the cw screwed you on stephen rae

and the cw got paid. the cw got their millions

um, what did you get?


I got a thoroughly enjoyable season of TV. Some of my favorite shows of all time were cancelled without endings. Doesn't mean the ride wasn't enjoyable. In many cases it may be BETTER to use your imagination, since finales are often less than satisfying.

The CW didn't screw us. In fact, they went out of their way NOT to by showing all the episodes after the show was cancelled. Most networks wouldn't. If they wanted to screw us they could have released those episodes on a DVD set and made us pay for them. I commend the CW for caring more about their fans than most networks.

And again, the CW didn't "screw us" by cancelling the show. The ratings were absolutely abysmal. I don't see it as a failure by the show, however, as some people have said. Midseason replacements rarely survive. If you want to blame someone, don't blame the network - blame the idiots that prefer reality garbage over smart serials. Blame Nielsen for their antiquated ratings system. The CW obviously isn't going to spend a fortune renewing a show that performed horrendously, nor are they going to round up all the cast members and rebuild the sets months after wrapping production to film a final episode. What do you people expect? The only time I could see expecting a movie to wrap up a series is if a series has been running for a few seasons and is then cancelled. Dead Zone and 4400 come to mind. Cult ran for one abbreviated season. I certainly don't blame CW for that.

If you want to do something productive, write snail mail letters to the network WHILE the show is airing to tell them how much you like it. Watch the episodes a second time on the website. Frequent the show's forums. Post about it on Twitter and Facebook. If you didn't bother to do that, you really can't blame the network. If you like a show, spend 15 minutes of your day making it known. If enough people who like intelligent serial TV do this, our shows might have a better chance of staying on the air.......

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I don't blame the CW, I blame the producers/writers for not concluding this story arc at the end of the original 13 episode run. And, by the show's producers failing to connect with its following to provide them closure, leads me to believe they were just making it up as they went along. Cliffhangers are convoluted and rarely brings satisfaction for more than a few minutes into the next episode.

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i think the show was just to difficult for alot of people to keep up with. it was all over the place for the first half of the season and then by the time it started to pull it self together it was too late which is a damn shame cause it got really deep in the end.

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We need more reality shows - because it's cheap and shocking. I am super disappointed Cult had to end like this keeping interesting mysteries withheld. NOOO is correct and I want this project to be on Kickstarter ASAP!

"Seth Brundle: I've come here to say one magic word to you. Cheeseburger. "

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we need more quality tv shows like prison break, BSG, rescue me, big love, and nip/tuck

and we need prison break back on FOX

we need robert knepper back on contract as T-BAG

and we don't need a second season of cult because you still don't know who stephen rae is ha ha and cult sucks it ha ha

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[deleted]

and you're a troll

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Said the pot to the kettle

Kapow, you're an idiot. Please do the world a favor and have yourself neutered. In time you may even come to be viewed as a hero by future generations.

This had to be the worst cliffhanger ending I can remember since Jericho. At least people protested loud enough for CBS to throw the viewers a bone on that one. Too bad we couldn't bombard the CW with a "Cult" relevant variation of Jericho's peanut campaign. Maybe truckloads of old VHS tapes?

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The worst cliffhanger in recent memory was the end of the first season of The Killing, when they revealed the arrest was another red herring and that the investigation had actually done no progress in one season.

But I agree that this one was awful. It had in the last three minutes a mention of another secret society that had zero to do with the plot of the first season, reveals or half-reveals about major characters that came out of the blue (why did Quentin Yarrow keep his files in the box at the harbor if he was alive and free?), a major regular being killed offscreen due to lack of time (Stuart), the fate of a lead character still undecided (Roger/Billy), then callbacks to some details of the very early episodes (the "These things just snap right off" catchphrase or the "M" logo on the disk) that most of the audience had rightly forgotten.

And the writers were bold enough to assume that their convoluted concept of a show would naturally get a renewal and threw a lot of things at the wall (I'd bet $1,000 that the writers merely thought of the name Erasmus but hadn't any particular idea so far about the intent of the society and that they were undecided about what to do with Cathy and Skye's father for season two). They hadn't even faced the possibility that the show could be a ratings failure and shoot an alternate ending, just in case.

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All true, but at least a second season of The Killing made the s01 ending easier to stomach. It should be made law that as soon as a pilot is green lit, the first day of shooting should be a potential wrap in the event of a low ratings cancellation. Or a guaranteed second season/mini series for tying up loose ends. I mean, is it any more of a gamble than a completely untested, brand new show?

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They did this with Twin Peaks. The pilot had an extra scene that made almost no sense but had the killer arrested (not the same as in the show). So the production, in case the pilot went nowhere, could shop it in foreign countries as a TV movie directed by David Lynch.

But it's the exception rather than the rule. Storytelling for a serialized show is based on hinting again and again there are bigger things to come, so the viewer feels compelled to watch the next episode. Having a potential wrap in mind is totally the opposite of the logic by which these shows are written. In Cult, this logic became some kind of caricature, hence the cliffhanger that's a teaser for things that the show hadn't properly introduced or suggested before.

But you point out one of the biggest issues with Cult. The show was basically produced because the head of the network asked the guys at programming about the best project they had but which had never gone into production. And he green lit Cult.
They knew they had this interesting concept but nobody had solved the issue of how keep things interesting beyond the pilot (that was written five or six years ago). And the show writers were in love with the idea of being dark and edgy up to the point they didn't realize it was a confused mess.
For six or seven episodes, the show basically introduced mysterious factions with opaque characters who had unrevealed motivations. You couldn't relate that much to Jeff because Jeff's main target was getting his brother back but you never got the idea of why Nate mattered that much to him apart from being his brother. They were estranged and Nate wasn't a compelling character, just one more cipher. It made for a weak main plot. Jeff and Skye were only in hot waters because they poked into other people's business to find Nate, not because they were a direct target. But apart from that, it was a show about unlikable characters making nasty things to other unlikable characters. You can't get casual viewers watching the show with such a formula.

When they got rid of Sakelik and had Stuart as the face of the bad guys, things improved but Stuart was a self-interested villain (who just wanted to know the truth about his father) and, again, apart from getting Nate killed, you had zero sense of an ongoing threat for the heroes until the final two or three episodes.
Then, Skye's character was criminally under-utilized. She was there to gush over Jeff (the manly guy who handled guns and faced danger), and help him doing computer searches, with her father's story firmly in the background. It's only when Jeff got Nate back that he considered he had this gorgeous girl who had spent weeks just next to him and was obviously in love with him. And they finally had sex in the final episode, just twenty seconds after having their first kiss (not under the influence)

It took the show 10 episodes to give us a clue about the bigger picture, the idea of controlling a population through TV and the potential for eventually targeting anybody with a TV set. It was a huge mistake.

And the final insult was this cliffhanger, as if the writers had assumed that the show they were writing would have a cult following just as the fictional show they were writing about, that their ratings would be granted and that they were sure to be renewed.
So, everything we had seen with Stuart, the True Believers, the Moon Hill Cult, Phillip Kellian and the matches between these and what appeared on screen in "Cult" could be dismissed, the real stuff involved a secret society known as the Circle of Erasmus, plus Cathy McDonald (formerly seen in two episodes) and Quentin Yarrow (who had only appeared in a dream sequence). And Steven Rae was writing a show about a guy who had ultimately died under a shelf in a cave.

I watched this, along with "Zero Hour", as Cult was a lesson in how NOT to write for a TV show. And it was very instructive.

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now we're talking about twin peaks. can you say coo coo? coo coo coo coo

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[deleted]

yeah yeah. blah blah. whatever. so who's stephen rae?

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Are you seriously comparing Cult to Terriers and Better Off Ted, just because they were rating failures? Or should I also add Rubicon, Andy Richter Controls the Universe and Get A Life to the list?

The main problem with Cult is not that it was a niche show that couldn't find a proper audience. It was that it was also a gloomy show that the audience could simply not relate to.

You're giving us a Veena Sud defense for Cult, as in "the show didn't try to be CSI or NCIS, where everything is properly wrapped up within an hour". Cult wasn't actually riveting enough to convince people to watch the next episode, in spite of the serialization. I acknowledge the plot must be a writer's wet dream: a high concept reminiscent of David Lynch or David Cronenberg, a huge dose of meta (is there an ambitious writer who doesn't enjoy meta?) and a veiled criticism of the mechanisms of TV.
But Cult went south as early as the pilot and the writers took their time to address some of the glaring issues that plagued the show:

- photogenic but dull leads. Jeff was only concerned with his brother and failed to see the big picture. Only in the finale, did he realize the conspiracy and dozens of dead bodies were an interesting story... for him to get hired back by a revered newspaper
- no sense of threat. Jeff and Skye were only targets because they stuck their noses in other people's businesses to hear about little brother or daddy. But elsewhere, you had a bunch of weirdos getting other weirdos killed and you couldn't be affected with these deaths.
- rampent sexism. What did Skye do in the later episodes apart from doing Bing searches on her computer and fawning over Jeff? How about Marti, compared to Billy's storyline? Female characters always got the short shrift
- things just happened because they were supposed to happen. Jeff and Skye got a lead. The lead made them go to place A and meet there person B, who spoke about somebody else mysterious at place C. Villains jump into the place and don't allow person B to reveal everything but the good guys then try place C. Rinse and repeat.
- no hint of a grand vision by the writers (you could jump entire episodes without losing a beat), while the show within a show was supposedly the ultimate show with a grand vision.
- the Kirstie-Roger romance made zero sense. There was never a scene in which we could understand what Kirstie found in this pompous actor. It would have taken a minute to show, for instance, Kirstie genuinely sad about something, then Roger being kind to her and revealing he was actually a kind and attentionate guy. And how about the age difference? Robert Knepper was old enough to be Marie Avgeropoulos' father yet they had instead Jeffrey Pierce as her father, while he's just 12 year older than her...

Sure, it was not a show that appealed to the lowest common denominator. And it was a writer's dream. But if you want to tell a dream, it has to be interesting or be made interesting. Something that totally eluded the show. The aptest comparison is not with the good shows you mention but with Sorkin's Studio 60. A show that looks good on paper but doesn't work concretely, mostly because the show runner was so much in love with smelling his own farts.

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[deleted]

You can call a TV show art and TV writers artists, as it allows you to call yourself an artist.
You forget you still work in the entertainment industry, whose main purpose is entertaining people. It's an industry, as in you have a client, an order and your order should match your client's requests because the client pays for it.
Of course, somebody skilled, with a vision and power can turn entertainment into some form of art, appease the network while doing something extra. It takes a David Chase, a Matthew Weiner, a David Lynch, a Mike Schur or a Vince Gilligan.

And that's precisely the issue with Cult. It tried to be an arty and edgy show, but it ultimately lacked the talent required to sustain any kind of interest, entertainment or artistic. O'Bannon can be entertaining but he was trying to do Art with a capital A, and in the end he didn't deliver on any of these two fronts.

And this is why the show even aired:

http://collider.com/mark-pedowitz-carrie-diaries-wonder-woman-amazon-i nterview/

Mark Pedowitz asked his crew what show they hadn't picked up in the last few years but thought they should have aired. And he got the script for the pilot of Cult, developed five years ago and thought it was "really good".

But it doesn't just take a "great" idea to make a great show. It takes development. Why do you think that FX has such a good track record? They've got The Shield, Sons of Anarchy, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Archer, Justified, The Americans, The League and a few others, all shows that carry a strong vision... Graham Yost and a few others explain that they do get memos from the FX executives and that these memos are actually helpful. They don't agree with each suggestion, but the people who wrote them clearly think about the show. They think about development. And by answering these concerns, the writers manage to get a stronger idea about what they're writing about. George Lucas had enough money and autonomy to produce three prequels to Star Wars, but he had no concern, no stupid executive writing him a memo about what they didn't like about the scripts. And he basically shot a flawed first draft.

Cult lacked development in the same way. You could switch the lead couple with the one from The Beauty and The Beast at any minute. The villains were opaque and unentertaining. The stakes weren't tangible. The writing on the show-within-the-show was hammy, but so was the writing on the actual show, that was supposed to be real life.
Anybody competent executive could have noticed these flaws, even without an idea to fix them. The audience actually realized what was wrong, and it weighed more in the balance than what was supposedly right. The writers were clueless, as they seemed to operate in autarchy and complete disconnect from real life.

Just one thing: the show-within-the-show was supposed to be shot verbatim from the shooting scripts written by Steven Rae. On all TV shows, even the ones run by control freaks, the director and the cast are allowed to change a few lines because some words can work on the sheet, not on set. You then have to change a few things in edit because the pace didn't go as expected, new inspirations appeared, and all episodes must in the end have the same length within a few seconds span (for syndication). It happens on every set and editor's room. Even Stanley Kubrick embraced a good ad-lib or a different approach by his actors. By all accounts, "Cult" by Steven Rae should be a terrible show, but strangely it isn't supposed to be.
I know when I watch a cop show that the writers weren't cops and I shouldn't expect realism or even verisimilitude. But, here, the writers for a TV show had no real inside knowledge about how a TV show was produced and it was more of a problem.

Fringe might have been a generic show in its freshman year, but there were a few things working right from the start. Walter Bishop was a riveting character. Inside of an action man and a girl who supports him, you had a strong willed woman who fired the gun and Peter Bishop who stayed in the background, which made for an original and interesting pairing. And they had a "monster of the week" format with clues about a bigger mystery peppered all over the seaon. Cult had a serialized approach right from the start but the first five or seven episodes were basically about an opaque character, Sakelik, who was killed approximately ten minutes after she started to show some depth and emotions. Then, focus switched on Stuart Reynolds, who was a little more interesting but wasn't even allowed to die on-screen (which shows how expandable he was).
And now we were supposed to focus on the Circle of Erasmus, because of a supposedly misinterpreted symbol reused from the pilot and nothing else. Compare this to the Twin Towers in the first Fringe finale, which was a shocker but actually make sense when you looked back at the entire season. Or the hatch for LOST.

Actually, if you want to be a good TV writer, the first thing to do is write strong, memorable and riveting characters, something Cult totally lacked. Star Trek: TNG was below par during the first two seasons but four or five characters already stood out. The pilot for How I Met Your Mother wasn't great but they got Neil Patrick Harris as Barney, while they originally had in mind a smaller and chubbier guy. They embraced Harris after his audition and they had something working right from the start.
Art should be an inspiration or an objective, not a given. It's laughable coming from a mere staff writer, whose scripts are at best rewritten by an entire team. And it's still laughable from a star, head writer or showrunner, as they usually use that claim to behave like a diva. But rules and reality apply even if you call yourself an artist. Every real talent on TV is able to express something true, strong and original while remembering they have butts to keep on the couch in front of the set for an hour or half an hour and that the same butts have to be back next week. It was obvious that Cult wasn't that show, and it makes it even more cruel that its Friday night slot was taken over by reruns of "Oh Sit!"

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[deleted]

Money doesn't grow on trees. It grows on plants
It what?
Oh. You were just checking to see if anyone was following what you wrote.
Okay. Carry on.

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[deleted]

I agree with most of what Tav-El says other than his high opinion of TV writers. The writing on most TV shows, even those I enjoy, is abysmal. Zero Hour and The Following come to mind just from this past season. How the writers who penned those dumpster fires ever secured a job in the industry is beyond me. Their complete and utter ineptitude at their profession simply boggles the mind. There is no doubt in my mind that I and many others could write a far more enjoyable, coherent storyline/script. I chose to study medicine (changed my major from journalism my freshman year) because writing jobs are becoming scarce these days and the money often isn't great, but I often wish I had gravitated toward writing if for no other reason that to write a decent TV series amidst all the garbage on TV today, LoL.

That said, I actually found the writing on Cult above average..........although that isn't saying much amidst today's disgraceful programming......

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Well said @El Bacho!!!. And at the end of the day all of this confused mess could have been solved with Stuart apparently just goggling his father's name to begin with O_O

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[deleted]

One thing that always bothered me about the show (otherwise I loved it & watched it until the bitter end) was that to me Matthew Davis was the boy who didn't want to marry Elle Woods because he needed "a Jackie, not a Marilyn." I hadn't seen him in anything since (did not watch True Blood), so that was my impression of him. I also remembered Alona Tal from Veronica Mars, but I had no trouble accepting her in this role. But I have to admit I mainly watched for Robert Knepper after having seen his amazing T-Bag in Prison Break. He was equally amazing in this.

For those people who keep wanting to bring back Prison Break, aside from Knepper, two of the other stars are currently doing good things on other shows. Silas Weir Mitchell is the main reason I watch Grimm and William Fichtner is on Crossing Lines.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

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[deleted]

I just watched the last two episodes and OMG they really were the best. Maybe an online service like HULU or Netflix could pick it as an exclusive? Or the channel SYFY and a TV movie to wrap things up?

Esta es mi firma


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[deleted]

[deleted]

report me for what? u got suckered by the CW. man up and own it

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[deleted]

no. but the CW promised you stephen rae would be the big reveal. and you got suckered by the CW. cause cult is canceled. and you still don't know who stephen rae is.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

the whole point of cult was to know who stephen rae is

and the cw screwed you on stephen rae

and yet you still support the cw and think cult is coming back

time to face reality. you got screwed by the cw. and it's over

get ready for more oh sit seasons on the cw

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the whole point of cult is stephen rae

and the cw screwed you on stephen rae

and the cw got paid. the cw got their millions

um, what did you get?

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[deleted]

you have no clue when stephen rae was supposed to be told

you're no hollywood insider

you have no hollywood information on cult. you're another online fan

and i hate to burst your little online internet IMDB message board bubble but you don't know who stephen rae is

and that was the point of cult

cult lives and dies on stephen rae. and cult died on stephen rae

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[deleted]

the problem is you don't know who stephen rae is

and you know what?

the millionaire CW Execs r laughing at you

laughing at you all the way to the bank

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[deleted]

and you still don't know who stephen rae is

um, the Mega billionaire American corporation known as the CW made a fool out of you

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[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

I just finished watching the series last night, and it was extremely difficult to watch the last 4 episodes. The hubs and I needed to get liquored up to get through it. I wanted it to succeed, though, because I love Alona Tal.

I think a problem with the show is that the Following was on, too, this year. No, they are not the same, but I know many people who watched both and got the plots confused.

What we got out of it was that Quentin was Stephen Rae, due to the phrase at the end, the fact he's been missing all these years and suddenly appears, and because it being Cathy didn't make as much sense.

I think it would have been better to just stick with the inner show.

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