Unlike some others I enjoyed those movie but the exchange between Bonneville's character and the Frenchman left me irritated. I wanted Donald to say something like "Well, at least we wouldn't just let the enemy walk into our capital without a fight like your lot did."
The capitulation of Paris in 1940 was something to be ashamed of, not proud.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
Sorry, Mr. Hotrodder.
There is such a thing as treason in high places that hands over your capital to the enemy.
I love the UK, but I can't help finding your last line also applies to London turning into londonistan.
London, like most modern capital cities is multicultural and cosmopolitan- so is New York BTW. Ignore the right wing propaganda and the various loonies on the net, the UK as a whole only has 2 million or so Muslims in a population of 64 million and 99.99% of them only want to sell us a curry or a newspaper not kill us in a terrorist act.
A little less hysteria and more facts is usually a good thing. Most immigrants we get now are from Romania, Bulgaria and Poland, maybe we should be more afraid of militant Catholics...
London has many many immigrants over the centuries, it ain't anything new. And if people ae peaceful and want to work they've been made welcome.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
London turning into londonistan.
If the majority of muslims in Britain were the enemy then we would have even more problems than we do have.
The vast majority of muslims in Britain are not terrorists or even terrorist supporters,they might say odd things in opinion surveys but when it comes down to it they are not fanatics,like people singing Irish rebel songs.
The Londonistan thing is a lazy cliche.
The line in the film was an odd one,the French guy was a free french supporter (obviously) he would know that DE GAULLE and his troops were equipped and fed by the British before America took over the job.
British people admired the Free French (and the other exile free armies)and I have read of French soldiers not being allowed to pay train and bus fares and being given free meals and drinks.
At a high level relations between the allies were sometimes poor but at street level things were better? of course the French were unhappy about the British sinking their fleet to avoid it being captured by the Germans.
Yes, it was a rather snotty comment by someone who had been made welcome in Britain, but more to the point had taken refuge there. Not much gratitude there!
Most Free Frenchmen including De Gaulle weren't happy about the attack on the French Fleet but would still have preferred that it didn't fall into he Nazis' hands either.
What annoys many is that the French Fleet were given a choice of going to a British port or even a neutral port but refused. They could have stayed in the war against their conquerors and occupiers but chose not to.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
I'll tell you who should have been royally peed off at the French: all those American soldiers and sailors that they shot at when the Americans landed in North Africa during Operation Torch in November of 1942. Particularly all the buddies of those Americans who actually died at the hands of the French during those landings.
And yet there was hardly any of that. Go figure.
The French troops firing at the Americans (and British)in 1942 were under VICHY GOVERNMENT control,they were obeying orders,they did not have a vote to decide which side to fight for.
The American soldiers were working for a government which recognised VICHY and had big doubts about DE GAULLE.
After D DAY DE GAULLE was a hero and VICHY was discredited but this situation required lots of French people changing sides.
All this stuff is interesting but I don't think that they could have covered all this stuff in MONUMENTS MEN.
2000-3000 American soldiers died by French bullets- and nary a German within hundreds of miles. They didn't just put up a token resistance and then surrender. IMO no true Frenchmen should have willingly obeyed the orders of the Petainist Vichy Govt. that had so willingly collaborated with the Nazis to the extent of rounding up French Jews and handing them over and also willingly aided the Nazis in the capture of Maquisards.
Getting back to the OT it's a very insensitive remark anyway given the times- not only had thousands died in the bombing of London but Hugh Bonneville's character may have lost people close to him too in the bombings. I doubt even a Frenchman would think it a joking matter.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
The French have been and continue to be a less than stellar ally to America to say the least, but an ally none the less.
share"The French troops firing at the Americans (and British)in 1942 were under VICHY GOVERNMENT control,they were obeying orders,they did not have a vote to decide which side to fight for."
What spectacular nonsense. Of course they did. What do you think the Free French were all about? As Hotrodder said, there were no German troops within a hundred miles of them. No one was holding a gun to their heads. And if you think those French who fought felt they had to or the Germans would take control of their whole country, well, after they fought the Americans, the Germans did it ANYWAY.
The Americans had been negotiating with the Vichy leaders in North Africa for months beforehand anyway to avoid all casualties on both sides. It was felt that the French would be less likely to fire on American forces than on British forces precisely because the British were already at war with the Vichy state while the Americans weren't. That's why the Americans handled negotiations with the Vichy forces in North Africa. General Mark Clark was landed in Algiers before the invasion, at the bequest of the French commander General Mast, to work out the details. Yet in the end the French betrayed the negotiations, more than anything else because of the egos of the various French generals.
Lots of reasons for enmity between the French and Americans, even more than between the French and British. Yet less than 2 years later the Americans were trying to recover their art treasures for them. Oh yeah, and working to liberate their country with the British.
If you were living in a Vichy controlled territory you were treated as a traitor if you were caught plotting with or defecting to the Free French.
Vichy and Petain were popular with the majority of French people until late in the war.
French soldiers who changed side had to adopt a new name because they were under sentence of death by Vichy,an ordinary soldier or sailor in Vichy uniform would have to think about what they were doing when thinking about not obeying orders or changing sides.
They did not say "if you don't fancy fighting today just go and makes crepes".
If the territory or general changed side then fine but generals and admirals tell lower ranks what to do,not the other way round.
Given the popularity and power of the Vichy government,and the death sentence for defectors you have to admire the original group of Free French men who later grew into the majority.
...And threats against the families of known members of the Vichy forces who joined the free french or resistance
shareYet less than 2 years later the Americans were trying to recover their art treasures for them. Oh yeah, and working to liberate their country with the British.
I wanted Donald to say something like "Well, at least we wouldn't just let the enemy walk into our capital without a fight like your lot did."
That was my understanding of the exchange between Donald and Jean Claude too (not that I necessarily agree with Jean Claude - although I do think his response was meant more in jest than anything else). It was a jibe at the relative cultural significance of Paris in relation to London. Hence Hitler's lack of qualms about bombing London.
Last Seen Films: Rogue One - 9/10, Silence - 10/10, La La Land - 10/10