Navy Terminology


Could someone enlighten us on the apparant Navy terminology they are using? For instance, the person they keep referring to as "THE COB." And another one they refer to as "THE XO." Thanks!

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COB = Chief Of the Boat. He is the "Command Master Chief" (COB is only used on subs). He is the senior enlisted man on the boat whose job it is is to represent the enlisted men to the captain.

XO = Executive Officer. He is the second in command.


If you have anymore specific terminology questions feel free to ask, there are too many to just list them all.

"Welcome to the internet, everyone knows everything, and no one likes anything"

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What's the difference between non-commissioned officers, commissioned officers, and enlisted men? Does commissioned mean you have a certain post? Thanks!

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That's more than I want to type, Wikipedia can probably give you a good explanation...especially the murky mess that is NCOs.

"Welcome to the internet, everyone knows everything, and no one likes anything"

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Commissioned officers are "commissioned" by Congress and come from either the Naval Academy at Annapolis or from another four-year college and Officer Candidate School (OCS). There are line officers, denoted by a star above their cuff stripe, who are eligible to command a ship. There are none-line officers who have no stars (these include chaplins and supply officers) and there are Limited Duty Officers (LDO's) who usually come from the enlisted ranks and serve as technical personnel. There are also Warrant Officers who usually are ex-enlisted personnel and also serve in a technical capacity. I am unsure if the warrant officers still exist in real life.

Non-commissioned officers in the Navy are called Petty Officers and are intermediate and senior enlisted personnel. They are the people who work and oversee the work done by junior enlisted people. Classifications are 3rd Class (E-4 pay grade), 2nd Class (E-5), 1st Class (E-6). Chief Petty Officers are the E-7, E-8 and E-9 pay grades (Chief, Senior Chief and Master Chief respectively). Chiefs generally report for quarters in the morning then retire to their berthing areas to relax for the rest of the day (save for spending the lunch hour at the CPO Club gambling should they be in port).

The junior enlisted men are Seaman Recruit (E-1 - generally only while one is in boot camp), Seaman Apprentice (E-2 - unless you've been a bad boy everyone gets a promotion after graduating boot camp) and Seaman (E-3).

Pay grades E-1 thru E-9 are all referred to as "enlisted".

More info here: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ranks/rankrate.html

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[deleted]

They just added CWO5. I guess they don't want a lot of Mustang officers. Sorry, not sure if Mustang is just a Jarhead term or not.

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Nope. Navy too.

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Nice. I had one squid tell me that if I'm on land, I'm not supposed to call the stairs a ladder.

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As a former Squid I would tell you the same thing. On land there are stairs and there are ladders. Aboard ship there are only ladders.

--Former Naval Person

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Well, that's what we're taught in recruit training, and most of us don't go to sea school anymore.

I remember I was going to the dental, and I was nervous. I was asking this one Dental Tech a lot of questions. I kept saying 'corpsman?' 'corpsman?' he yelled at me, "It's not corpsman!!! It's dental tech or doc!!!!!"

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The official rate is "Hospitalman" (at least it was some 50 years ago) but we had other names for 'em:

Penis Machinist
Pecker Checker


The term "corpsman" was reserved for those HM's who were serving with the Marines. The army calls 'em "medics".

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No, that's not correct. My father was a Navy doctor who entered the service 54 years ago and subsequently retired after 26 years with the rank of captain as the commanding officer of a naval hospital. This includes a period at a naval hospital located on a major Marine Corps base. I grew up with this and the fact is they are always called them "corpsmen", 100% of the time, regardless of whether they are assigned to a unit of the Marine Corps, a naval hospital or other shore-based medical facility, or to a surface ship, air wing, SEAL team, or submarine; in fact, that is what we called ours on all of the submarines I was once stationed aboard, myself. While the letter designation of their rating is "HM"; which might suggest a term like "hospitalman", that understanding is actually spurious. Rather, they are called corpsmen because there was once a time when they were organized under the auspices of something called the "Hospital Corps". Because of that they were formally called "Hospital Corpsmen", or just "corpsmen" for short. While the Navy's medical services have since been reorganized so that there no longer is an organizational subdivision of the Navy called the Hospital Corps, it still has corpsmen and that word is still used to identify these people. The expression has nothing whatever to do with their sometimes service with the Marine Corps. There is also a natural tendency of people to address or refer to corpsmen in certain circumstances, such as where you have a solitary corpsman assigned to some kind of unit as their sole medical guy, such as on submarines, by the purely slang expression, "doc", even though they are far from being a medical doctor. Additionally, I can agree that the term is basically analogous the army idea of the "medic" in such a situation, although I have to wonder whether the army calls anybody who works in an army hospital a medic.

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Are you talking about doctors? My father was a doctor on the Long Beach. They always called him "doc" or "commander". He happened to be visiting this weekend so I asked him.

You write the most interesting comments regarding submarines. Considering my complete obsession with anything submarine, I find it extremely entertaining. Feel free to share any regaling tales of your time in the silent service with me.
Thanks for the great reads and your brave service.

I read a long time ago on a submariner forum that when a sub is breached running deep with catastrophic flooding, the water rising in the submarine increases the pressure until anything not underwater is incinerated a split second before being pulverized. They used the analogy of a diesel cylinder which ignites with only pressure.
To your knowledge, is that accurate?

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It might be. Fortunately, I never had a chance to find out.

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I guess I'll never get confirmation on that theory, oh well.
I just remembered a video I saw a while ago that I found very entertaining. Maybe you will enjoy it too.

"My Cold War Submarine Stories"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7aOijHFj6A

Feel free to share some stories yourself.

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Compared to a long time ago when they where one rate. Now they are two. So yah the one guy saying he's a Dental Tech is correct. I just found out about this show today. I got a feeling it's going to drive me nuts with the terms and stuff being wrong. I'm former Navy .

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The official rate is "Hospitalman"

The term "corpsman" was reserved for those HM's who were serving with the Marines.


Not true. The official title is "Hospital Corpsman" Not Hospitalman, never was.

The term Corpsman is not uniquely reserved to those serving with the Marines. However those serving with the Navy are referred to by the combination of rate/rating... Such as HM2 Smith. Being plainly addressed as Corpsman is generally only done by the Marines as a Navy person would call him by rate/rating. Hence you probable confusing of it being reserved only for those with the Marines.

"Doc" is simply a common nickname used both by Independent Duty Corpsman (Serving on a ship at sea) or by FMF Corpsman (Fleet Marine Force)... those serving with Marine Units.

From Official Navy site on the history of the HM rating....


The Surgeon's Steward rating was established in 1838, and in 1866 the rating name changed to Apothecary. In 1898, the Apothecary rating had its name changed to Hospital Steward, and in 1917 to Pharmacist's Mate. Finally, in 1948, the Pharmacist's Mate rating was changed to today's, familiar, Hospital Corpsman.





I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[deleted]

Who are you trying to tell?
I thought it clear that I am full aware of that.

Why did you feel the need to explain to me what is clear I already know?

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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LOL

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Why are you making multiple sock-puppet accounts?

planning on trolling?

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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You're confusing me with Rajesh-Mulan

I thought what you responded to him with was funny, which is why I LOL'd

Please stop assuming there is macabillia in play here

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Nice try TheGreatMoghul, fraking trolling *beep*

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[deleted]

And another sock puppet...

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Nor to argue with you, my skimmer friend, but my father always just called them "corpsmen." If he knew the man's name (and he normally did) an he was a petty officer, he called him by name. If he was a chief, he was "Chief." His corpsmen always answered the phone, though, "HM2 Smith", etc.

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gsfsu - thanks very much for such a great overview! I thought officers came from academies, but I wasn't entirely sure how that worked with everything else. I find Navy rankings somewhat confusing.

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[deleted]

"Where is gets confusing is a newly commissioned junior officer can boss around a 20+ year serving highly decorated chief"

Not if the newly commissioned junior officer knows what's good for him. I witnessed one of my crusty old chiefs grab a LTjg by the seat of the pants and throw him out of my radio shack. The captain then gave the LTjg a chewing out like I have seldom heard (the captain's in-port cabin was right next to the radio shack).

Not all junior officers are azzholes but it seems as if the ones coming out of the academy tend to be. I've heard two of them arguing who was senior (determined by date of commission and rank order in their graduating class) in the main passageway of my ship.

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[deleted]

Where it gets confusing is a newly commissioned junior officer can boss around a 20+ year serving highly decorated chief
Something like near the end of the movie AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN following the graduation when the Drill Sgt is collecting keys from the new graduates? (The Sgt goes from 'barking' at the officer candidates to speaking when spoken to, or when necessary with the newly commissioned officers, now set to become Naval Aviators.)

And that "ignorant" behavior of the newly graduated people isn't limited to the military.
I worked on large electronic systems, and saw a newly hired engineer doing something I thought was highly questionable (at best). One of the senior technicians (ex-air force, 8 years, and 2 years with the company) came up just as I was started to say something, and demanded to know what the new engineer was doing. He paused briefly, looked the tech up and down, and asked "Who are you?". The tech replied, "My name is 'Red' and I'm the senior tech.". The engineer replied, "Well I'm an engineer.", and continued what he was doing. 'Red' paused very briefly (in shock), then his eyes narrowed, then abruptly pivoted on his heel and rushed off.
Until 'Red' turned, I was sure he was going to deck the engineer!

One of the project managers showed up minutes later and gave the new engineer another task to do, but it was too late. It took a week's worth of repairs, and roughly $50,000 worth of parts to fix what was done in about 20 minutes (about two month's later) when the equipment started failing. And about two months after that, that engineer left to go back for more college.

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"Something like near the end of the movie AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN following the graduation when the Drill Sgt is collecting keys from the new graduates?"

Actually, those were silver dollars.

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Something like near the end of the movie AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN following the graduation when the Drill Sgt is collecting keys from the new graduates? (The Sgt goes from 'barking' at the officer candidates to speaking when spoken to, or when necessary with the newly commissioned officers, now set to become Naval Aviators.)


That's actually a tradition. The DI gives the newly minted Ensigns their first salute and collects a silver dollar from each of them.

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The DI gives the newly minted Ensigns their first salute and collects a silver dollar from each of them.

Same for new second lieutenants in the Air Force. It doesn't have to be any specific person -- just the first enlisted man to salute them. In the AFROTC detachment where I was commissioned, the guys in the office took turns with each graduating class, and we didn't use silver dollars -- just paper dollars.

I think the Army does the same thing.

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It doesn't have to be any specific person -- just the first enlisted man to salute them.


Doesn't have to be but by tradition things are arranged so the DI is the first enlisted person they encounter.

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In the context of an aviation cadet program, yes. But as an ROTC cadet I had no DI -- everybody in authority over me was an officer. We got plenty of training from enlisted men, some of it tough, but our direct boss was a captain. Pretty much the same deal at the service academies -- the boss there is called the Tactical Officer.

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You do indeed imagine a great deal. In fact, most of your post is purely a product of the imagination. (Special delivery for the "Moghul")

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And I always thought the Army had the most confusing ranks. :)

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Thanks for being so informative and civil, gsfsu. How refreshing on this board.

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HA..what is so confusing about Privates, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant major or Major, etc.

The flipping Navy (I say that with respect) is the worst with rank :-D ...so many differences...

MM2, HM3, POs and CPOs, O3 is a Lieutenant, O6 is a Captain....Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral...fracking COMMODORE...and lets not forget the whole different UNIFORM when you make E7.


Army retired

"Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire."

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"The flipping Navy (I say that with respect) is the worst with rank :-D ...so many differences..."

Oh, it gets even more fun. We have positions like 'Jack O' the Dust', who is in charge of the cleaning supply locker. We have a 'first lieutenant', which is the head janitor, and, of course my favorite, the Mess Deck Master-at-Arms, with their shiny police shield, ensuring that nobody takes an extra glass of milk.

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Personally, I didn't find non-navy ranks too difficult to figure out and conversely thought it was neat that sailors wear their jobs (MOS to you) on their sleeves.

Other navies are the same way although the icons for the different rates vary. For example, the icon for a Radioman (now extinct in our navy) was four sparks (lightening bolts). In the Italian navy it is an old-fashioned gun (like a muzzle loading 6 pounder). I discovered this while steaming in Hong Kong with a bunch of Italian sailors. Nobody could speak the other's language but we could communicate using radio codes.

The U.S. Navy has gotten a bit crazy with ratings since I was in but they still make sense once you break the code. MM = Motor Machinist or Machinist Mate (old and new designations), HM - Hospitalman (corpsman if attached to the Marines) - medic to you army guys.

An E-4 thru E-6 is a petty officer and E-7 thru E-9 is a chief petty officer. Chiefs wear the same uniforms as the commissioned officers except no dress whites (that may have changed in the modern navy, I'm not sure).

Commissioned officers carry the same pay grades as in other services but the titles can change by pay grade. Their titles are probably much more confusing than the enlisted designations.

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"Chiefs wear the same uniforms as the commissioned officers except no dress whites (that may have changed in the modern navy, I'm not sure)."

Now days they wear the same 'chokers' as the officers. I know that back in the day they had a white version of the double breasted uniform.

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It's never "Hospitalman". It's ALWAYS "corpsman" (short for the old term, "hospital corpsman" i.e., member of the former Hospital Corps.)

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I think there might be a little confusion on the name of the Corpsman rating here...

First of all, to the person who went to dental and called the Dental Tech a "Corpsman" and got backtalk that they wanted to be called a "Doc" or "Dental Tech", this is likely due to the fact that there might be some residual bad feelings on that person's part--but it does not make them right. In October 2005, the Navy merged the ratings of Dental Technician "DT" and Hospital Corpsman "HM". That HM may have wanted to be called "Dental Tech" or "Doc" but traditionally, the nickname of "Doc" is given to Hospital Corpsmen who are assigned with the Marine Corps and respected by the Marines. And, as I've stated, as of Oct 2005 there *are* no more DTs, like it or not. (Now, if this was before 2005 or this person carried the 8404 designator and had served honorably with the Marines... perhaps they warranted one of the names they requested... hard to tell with the info given.)

As far as I know, "Pecker Checker" is not actually a proper term for the noble, and much decorated (sadly mostly posthumously), rating of Hospital Corpsman. (Look up the Medal of Honor sometime and see what Ratings have been awarded most often... We've lost far too many of our best and brightest as they gave all they had trying to save someone else's life.)

Now, as to the proper name of the rate(job title.) No, it is not Hospitalman. A Hospitalman is a Hospital Corpsman who is an Enlisted person in pay grade 3 (E-3.) Our rating is named as follows:
(The "AKA" names are the generic name for any person of that paygrade-- no matter what rate they are. It is proper to address someone with either form of address...
For example, I am a Retired Navy Chief Hospital Corpsman. It would have been acceptable for a Sailor to address a question to me as "HMC _______ " "Chief" (without stating the last name, just "Chief")"Chief _______ " or, if in writing, CPO _______ (as that term is generally not stated as a term of address) the blank stands for the last name of the person addressed (in this example, me), when talking to me. Chiefs are most often just addressed as "Chief". With Petty Officers, they can be addressed as either "HM2 Jones" or "Petty Officer Jones" or "PO2 Jones", any of those would be acceptable.

Name Listing:

E-1: Hospital Recruit -HR
E-2: Hospital Apprentice -HA
E-3: Hospitalman -HN
E-4: Hospital Corpsman, Third Class (AKA "Petty Officer Third Class) -HM3
E-5: Hospital Corpsman, Second Class (AKA"Petty Officer Second Class) -HM2
E-6: Hospital Corpsman, First Class (AKA "Petty Officer First Class) -HM1
E-7: Chief Hospital Corpsman(AKA "Chief Petty Officer")-HMC
E-8: Senior Chief Hospital Corpsman(AKA "Senior Chief Petty Officer")-HMCS
E-9: Master Chief Hospital Corpsman(AKA "Master Chief Petty Officer")-HMCM

(Reference- Manual of the Medical Department, Chapter 9- "Hospital Corps")

Hope that cleared that up a bit.

Clare
USN, HMC(Retired)

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Thank you for your service,

you guy's were always appreciated, even if we didn't have the sense to show it.


Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

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For example, I am a Retired Navy Chief Hospital Corpsman. It would have been acceptable for a Sailor to address a question to me as "HMC _______ " "Chief" (without stating the last name, just "Chief")"Chief _______ " or, if in writing, CPO _______ (as that term is generally not stated as a term of address) the blank stands for the last name of the person addressed (in this example, me), when talking to me. Chiefs are most often just addressed as "Chief". With Petty Officers, they can be addressed as either "HM2 Jones" or "Petty Officer Jones" or "PO2 Jones", any of those would be acceptable.

Times, they may have changed.

During my tour in the destroyer navy ('62-'66) we addressed our Chiefs as "Chief" - not using their last name unless they were in a group and we had to delineate.

I made my way up through the ranks and ended up as an E-5 and was always addressed with my last name only. No rating. No "petty officer .....". That went for both officers and other enlisted, above and below me. Enlisted people never addressed each other with titles with the exception of E-7 thru E-9.

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I served from 1985 until 2008 and I will admit that method of address and, indeed the entire Navy, changed quite a bit in that time. I remember being called by my last name only quite a bit when I first joined... and I do remember less formality in some ways, but even then I remember everyone wanting to make Petty Officer and being able to have that title before their name.

But, the Navy changed SO MUCH in the time I was Active Duty... We had two wars, not counting the "Cold War". I look back and remember that when I joined the Navy, we didn't have computers or fax machines. And then I remember how much the addition of a fax machine confused our ISIC (Immediate Superior Command) and the constant discussions of whether we'd have to still to mail letters we'd faxed or not... And those first computers--they had 20 mg hard drives!! I also remember in those days frequently being directed by other members (of similar rank) to "take notes" during meetings-- even when a Yeoman (the secretary rate) was present because I was the female present(I informed them if I wanted to take notes I'd have attended that school, but would LOVE to give them all some SHOTS after the meeting if they'd like to visit me in Medical...) After Tailhook that didn't happen any more. On the other hand, you could tell most men were very nervous about what kind of jokes were acceptable in mixed company any-more and it seemed like that lovely banter you'd get with your mates over coffee at break-time was REALLY tense for quite a while. Which was a shame because while I'm sure there were some rare cases where people were out of line, in most cases the people I met were good hearted, hard working, and often quite funny individuals who I enjoyed spending time with. It was sad that Tailhook caused them to see me as a possible "person who might accuse them of something". (Always been partial to Seabees and Submariners, they're honest folk, work their butts off... and they tell really funny jokes.)

Anyway, yes, most of the time I was just called Chief. But, the other terms were correct and were also used. And yes, you did call people by their first name if they were the same rank as you, and when you were not in mixed rank company... (no junior or senior personnel around.)

But while I was an HM2, I definitely called those above me HM1... and those below HM3. We did sometimes address non-PO's by last name only but it was pretty much considered an insult to leave off the "Petty Officer" for those who had earned that rank. Hope that makes sense.

HMC (Ret)

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That is interesting. I am wondering though if your experiences were still true in seagoing commands and especially in the destroyer navy. I say that only because that branch of the navy, like the sub service, is a much more informal version of the overall navy especially compared to shore commands.

I worked for a little while in NAVCOMMSTA Long Beach which had a mix of male and female radiomen but don't remember any significant differences in addressing each other there either but because it was basically a shipyard might be the reason why. Things might have been different at more formal commands.

We had about a dozen RM's aboard my destroyer and we were on a first name basis with each other, except as noted before, the chief. That also went for other enlisted in other departments within Operations. Deck and Engineering might have been different.

Back in my day all of us were volunteers but under the threat of the draft so it wasn't totally like today's recruits. Of all the people who passed through my radio shack in the three years I was aboard there were but 3-4 lifers. Everyone else had a short-timers attitude. That also might account for the informality. We really treated the navy with a lot of disdain and took things seriously only to the point of getting into trouble. The senior petty officer and junior officer lifers, particularly the academy grads, took many Tums when dealing with us.

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I was an RM at NAVCOMMSTA Long Beach for a while too.
There are no more RMs. They merged with ETs.
My son is now an ET on the Princeton.

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GSFSU (could that possibly have anything to do with Florida State?) has got it wrong about corpsmen. My father was a Navy doctor who entered the service 54 years ago and subsequently retired after 26 years with the rank of captain as the commanding officer of a naval hospital. I grew up with this and the fact is they are always called "corpsmen", 100% of the time, regardless of whether they are assigned to a unit of the Marine Corps, a naval hospital or other shore-based medical facility, or to a surface ship, air wing, SEAL team, or submarine; in fact, that is what we called ours on all of the submarines I was once stationed aboard, myself. While the letter designation of their rating is "Hm" which might suggest a term like "hospitalman", that understanding is actually spurious. Rather, they are called corpsmen because there was once a time many years ago when they were organized under the auspices of something called the "Hospital Corps". Because of that they were formally called "hospital corpsmen", or just "corpsmen" for short. While the Navy's medical services have since been reorganized so that there no longer is an organizational subdivision of the Navy called the Hospital Corps, it still has corpsmen and that word is still used to identify these people. The expression has nothing whatever to do with their sometimes service with the Marine Corps. There is also a natural tendency of people to address or refer to corpsmen in certain circumstances, such as where you have a solitary corpsman assigned to some kind of unit as their sole medical person, such as on submarines, by the purely slang expression, "doc", even though they are far from being a medical doctor.

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He left off ROTC. Probably about half of all officers come from ROTC programs (or at least they did during the Cold War).

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Just a note that NCO can command boats such as river patrol boats in Vietnam.

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Non-commissioned Officers Are Enlisted men. But they are Senior Enlisted men in positions of authority over lower enlisted.

In the US Military there are 9 Enlisted Paygrades/Ranks.
In the navy these are known as:
E-1 Seaman Recruit
E-2 Seaman Apprentice
E-3 Seaman
E-4 Petty Officer 3rd Class
E-5 Petty Officer 2nd Class
E-6 Petty Officer 1st Class
E-7 Chief Petty Officer
E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer

E-1 to 3 are your lower enlisted with no authority. They are the new guys. Most will be E-2 or E-3 by the time they complete schooling and get to their first ship. IIRC you get E-2 automatically after 6 months active duty. Due to college credits and other programs, it is possible to join as high as E-3 going in.

Some ratings (Jobs) in the Navy will get you E-4 automatically upon completion of schooling and a 6 year enlistment commitment.

Your Petty Officer 3rd's through 1st's are those with a strong command of their Job and knows what to do with little supervision. They will often be placed in charge of other lower enlisted to get specific job details done. A 1st class Petty Officer knows his job inside and out. and the most senior one of the division will be the LPO, Leading Petty Officer. He is the go-to guy in charge when it's something to small to bring to the Chief's Attention.

E-7 thru 9 are the Chiefs. They are your salty dog veterans. They run the divisions. Officers may be in charge but it is the chiefs that really do the work, give the orders, and insure all gets done according to the wishes of the Officers.


BTW... When I was going through "A School" for EW. We had a Guy by the last name of Stane.
He was an E-3
In the Navy....



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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So, are commissioned officers not considered enlisted?

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So, are commissioned officers not considered enlisted?


In a word, no.

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If it wasn't clear enough already by mine and everyone else's answers...

Commissioned Officers are OFFICERS
Non-Commissioned Officers are SENIOR ENLISTED.

It is the commission that defines being an officer.

Now if no one understands beyond this point... None of us here can help you. The fault now lies with your inability to comprehend.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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So, are commissioned officers not considered as enlisted?

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I'm going to assume you accidentally hit post reply twice.

Otherwise I'll have to assume you are a troll or an idiot thinking that if you keep posting the same question over and over you'll eventually get the answer you want.

So you hit post reply twice right? Yeah.. lets go with that.



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Yep, people make mistakes. Thanks for kindly pointing it out. Oh, and by the way, CGSailor, you are a douchebag. Comprehend that :)

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This thread is what is good about IMDB. Great info from folks in the know.

Cheers!

(and Go Army!)

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No. Officers are appointed by the President, with the advise and consent of the Senate, for a term of "at the pleasure of the President." They can resign at any time or be fired for "conduct unbecoming an Officer and Gentleman." Think of it like at will employment in a right to work state. Fired or resign at will. This is refers to officers classified as "non-obligor." They have no obligation to stay. Officers who had the Navy pay for medical school, etc., are classified as "obligors." If they resign they have to reimburse the government for all their schooling.

Enlisted are just that-they enlist for a given time under contract by a recruiter. They can also go to disciplinary proceedings such as Captain's Mast (so named because the Captain used to have these hearings at the main mast of the ship), which is Non Judicial Punishment-no courts martial, handled in house. In the Marines it is called Officer Hours. This is the military equivalent to misdemeanor court. The most the Captain can do is reducing in rank by one pay-grade and 3 days bread and water in the brig. Officers cannot go to this non judicial punishment-it is all courts martial for them. Enlisted cannot quit, that is called UA (Unauthorized Absence) or desertion. They are under contract, and if war breaks out and they are in a critical field? Their contract just got extended for a while. Especially if they are under what is called a Class 3 reservist/Individual Ready Reserve contract. That is a total of 8 years; 4 or 6 years active duty and 4 or 2 years inactive reserves. They don't drill in that reserve status but they are subject to recall for national emergencies. They can be kept active forever.

On an Officer's ID card the expiration date says "indefinite." On an enlisted ID card it gives the date that his enlistment contract expires or his expected rotation (to a new station) date. On the first contract that is the same date. If you hear someone say to an officer, in a movie or on TV, something about enlisting or reenlisting that is a mistake. They misspoke. Officers do not enlist, they apply for the post like a job.

Here you go: Officers, White collar. Enlisted, Blue collar.

It is later than you think...

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Thanks, nabors76.

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Damn! You're a Crow? I was too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rToPNSZ7T1U

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There was a buddy of mine I went to A School with. His name was Ronnie. I lost contact with him after A School. He was assigned to USS Witchita, AOR-1 after A school..

Stranger things have happened, you wouldn't happen to be him would you?


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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No. Sorry man. After "A" and "C" school, I went to the USE Blue Ridge in Yokosuka. Good to see another EW. LOL. My old LPO told me one of his "A" school buddies wrote an episode of Star Trek: TNG. Said the EW2 was in the credits. Never checked though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rToPNSZ7T1U

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When were you in the service and on Blue Ridge? We were inport with Blue Ridge at the same time in late 91 at Subic. Shortly after the Pinatubo Eruption.

Blue Ridge and ourselves (USS Halsey) were the only two at the pier till a Tico showed up towards the end of our week in port there.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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USS Blue Ridge?

I see that stupid thing every day at work... :-)

And yes, It is most every day since the damned thing spends a lot more time in port than at sea.

"Welcome to the internet, everyone knows everything, and no one likes anything"

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"USS Blue Ridge?"

That was my ship too!!

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I wasn't stationed on it, I just see it parked at the pier across from where I work. Though I did provide support for them doing a diesel generator swap out a few years ago.

"Welcome to the internet, everyone knows everything, and no one likes anything"

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CG, I always thought that "chiefs run the Navy" bit was an old and inaccurate cliche. From every thing I ever saw (late 70's to early 80's), the Navy was run by LPO's who were E-6's. As my first LPO told me, "I run the division. The chief's job is to run interference with the goat locker. Your job is to run interference with the wardroom." Since that matched my experience in the two previous ships I'd been on it never occurred to me to argue with it. lol.

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LOL at the "Stane"...

I served with an E-3 whose last name was Dick. And I also served with a Petty Officer Sunken. He was a great guy, used to tease him that he picked the wrong service... or at least he should have been a Submariner and not been a Surface Sailor. : )

Cracked up when I saw your sig. When I joined the Navy, my dad used to go around singing this little song "I joined the Navy to see the World, and what did I see?? I saw the sea!"

HMC(Ret)

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Commissioned officers are idiots and wankers who get other men killed.

Non coms fix problems normally the ones caused by commissioned officers.

Enlisted are the ones who do the fighting and the dying.

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Bit of bitterness coming out there I think! That or you really know nothing about it and get your stereotypes from Vietnam films!

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It is a real pity that there is no mandatory draft so that people would be informed about basic military information.....

the current resident of Our White House has a liberal socialist agenda which is Killing Our Country

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This isn't a terminology question, but hopefully one of you Navy guys can answer it anyway. I did three years in the Army, but that was a quarter century ago, so I'm not sure I'm remembering things 100% clearly.

I also have only seen the pilot episode so far (still at work when the show airs, and it's not on Hulu+), and haven't been frequenting this board... if the question has already been covered, I apologize.

Anyway... in the pilot episode, the Captain was relieved of duty by someone from the DoD; a deputy secretary, I think, but NOT the Secretary. Is that a lawful order? From what I remember, the only civilians in the chain of command are the President and the Secretary of Defense, and I'd think that an order like that from someone outside the chain would just be ignored.

Yeah, I know it's nitpicking, it just kind of jumped out at me when I saw it.

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I imagine relieving someone of command is even more complex than that. I'm not sure even the president could just relieve someone because they asked a question. You would have to really dig into the legalities of "getting relieved for cause".

"Welcome to the internet, everyone knows everything, and no one likes anything"

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You are probably right, but in the context of the show, you might recall that the US Government told the crew of the Colorado to fire on a nation with whom we were not at war, attempted to kill them when they questioned this order, relieved the Captain of command before this attempt, and then just told the Captain that his son, who fought honorably (we assume), will not be buried until the Captain returns to be punished.

I'm pretty sure they are not worried about what would really be a good cause to relieve a senior officer of his command.

Also, for all you other Army and Navy guys out there (and you civilians who are curious):

Navy: Army:
O-1 Ensign O-1 2nd Lieutenant
O-2 Lieutenant Jr. Grade O-2 1st Lt.
O-3 Lieutenant O-3 Captain
O-4 Lieutenant Commander O-4 Major
O-5 Commander O-5 Lieutenant Colonel
O-6 Captain O-6 Colonel (or "full bird")
O-7 Rear Admiral (lower half) O-7 Brigadier General
O-8 Rear Admiral O-8 Major General
O-9 Vice Admiral O-9 Lieutenant General
O-10 Admiral O-10 General
O-11 Fleet Admiral O-11 General Of The Army

The grade O-11 for both branches is reserved for times of war; during peacetime, the highest grade is O-10 and there are few of them, most of them in top positions in the Pentagon. The layman might have heard the terms "three-star" or "four-star" or some such, which refers to the grades above in the Army. O-10, for instance, is a four-star general because he wears four stars as his rank. Dwight D. Eisenhower during WWII was a five-star general and was appointed by FDR as the Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces in Europe.

Warrant officers still exist in the Army and I'm not sure about the Navy. In the Army they are formerly enlisted (sometimes they can go from college to Warrant Officer Candidate School) who have decided to focus on one technical specialty and become experts at it. Most Warrants in the Army are helicopter pilots and this is literally all they do--they fly and nothing else. After grade WO-1 they are considered for all intents and purposes commissioned officers and are called Chief Warrant Officers (CW-2,3,4,5), or sometimes just "Chief" in an endearing fashion of course. and enlisted must salute them and call them sir just like commissioned officers. The highest grade for Warrants is WO-5, and in the case of aviation, it takes upwards of twenty years in service to attain the rank. Let's just say a few years ago before I got out I listened to a WO-5 talk about when he flew Hueys in Vietnam. Yeah, he was still in.

NCO's are enlisted men who have been promoted within the ranks because of their experience and leadership. They are not officers. Think of them as first-line supervisors or department managers at Home Depot or something where the store manager is the company commander or Captain (in Army terms not Navy) and the department managers are Sergeants of varying grades.

Navy:
E-1 Seaman Recruit
E-2 Seaman Apprentice
E-3 Seaman
E-4 Petty Officer Third class
E-5 P.O. Second Class
E-6 P.O. First Class
E-7 Chief Petty Officer
E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer/Command Master Chief/Fleet Master Chief

Army:
E-1,2 Private
E-3 Private First Class
E-4 Specialist/Corporal (first is not NCO, second is most junior NCO)
E-5 Sergeant
E-6 Staff Sergeant
E-7 Sergeant First Class
E-8 Master Sergeant/First Sergeant (First Sergeant is senior enlisted advisor to a company commander
E-9 Sergeant Major/Command Sergeant Major

To put it in perspective, who do you think is responsible for teaching and training many of the young soon-to-be officers? NCOs are partly responsible for this. Yes, 24 year-old Lieutenant can TECHNICALLY boss around a 46 year-old Master Sergeant...but in most cases, the First Sergeant or Sergeant Major typically answer only to one person directly--the company commander and the battalion commander, respectively. Unless I'm wrong, it's similar to this in the Navy. A good officer at least listens well to the advice of his first sergeant or sergeant major (especially when it comes to the welfare of the enlisted men under them) and defers to his experience when it's appropriate.

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Concerning Army/Navy ranks.


One of the most annoying things noted as a "goof" by idiots in naval based films is the tired old... "Did you notice that (insert character here) was supposedly a Lieutenant, but they were wearing Captain's bars!?"

To which I usually respond...
Hey dumbass... What? you didn't notice the Admiral wearing General's stars?


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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I don't mind Navy officer insignia. It might take me 15 or 20 seconds to "translate" from Army/Marine/Air Force, but it's not that difficult. (okay, Major's clusters... O4... Ensign, Lt j.g., Lt, *Lieutenant Commander*).

No, what gets me is the enlisted insignia. I'm just a dumb Army vet, the rest of you guys are too confusing with all those extra stripes.

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*Sigh*

A bit of gloss on this.

First, the NAVY does not use the terms "non-commissioned officer", ""non-com", or "NCO". Those are traditional army terms (and whether the Air Force adopted them upon its creation as a separate service in 1947, I do not know. The Marines do not use them either, as far as I can can remember).

Rather, the Navy uses its traditional term, "petty officer", which it inherited from the Royal Navy (British, that is) in consequence of our having once been part of the British Empire. By the same token the US Navy adopted many of the traditions as well as common procedures for various things from the Royal Navy of that time. ("Petty officer" in turn was adopted by the Royal Navy from the French, who used the term "petite" officer, i.e., "small", "little", or "minor" officer.)

Traditionally, petty officers were enlisted people who had some specialized training to work in a particular field at a kind of task much equivalent to the idea of a trade in civilian life on land, rather merely being just general seamen. The naval term for such a "trade" was and is "rating." Petty officers worked for "warrant officers" who were their ships' most senior experts in those particular ratings, and considering the needs of a combat sailing vessel the warrant officers had titles like Gunner, Carpenter (the ships being made of wood), Boatswain, Sailmaker, Quartermaster (which does not mean what it does in the army), etc. The petty officers thus had titles like gunner's mate, carpenter's mate, boatswain's mate, etc. You can probably think of them as journeyman tradesmen working for a master tradesman, while the rest of the crew (and as distinguished from the commissioned officers) are not tradesmen at all, but seagoing general laborers. As a matter of common practice, petty officers were and still are referred to as "petty officers." Only a comparatively few men were needed to carry out the specialized tasks of the various petty officer ratings, so most men were simply seamen, either "Ordinary", or if they were especially expert at seamanship, "Able-Bodied". (There were also terms for newbies, like "Landsman.") New petty officers were typically drawn from the ranks of the more trainable-looking seamen. It was a ship's captain who decided who his petty officers would be.

Basically, warrant officers were called that because they were so appointed in writing on a piece of paper called a warrant. Under naval protocol they were called "Mister" and "sir" by petty officers and seaman alike and wore uniforms similar to commissioned officers. As a matter of common practice, they were and still are referred to as "warrant officers" (just as in the other armed services), and rate a salute, as though they are commissioned officers. Warrant officers could be appointed by the captain of a ship, originally, if memory serves. Certainly, they were beneath Royal consideration.

On the other hand, commissioned officers were so called because they were "commissioned" by the King, and had a document colloquially referred to as a commission to reflect that fact, which was signed by or on behalf of the King by an appropriate government official. In the United States, of course, there was no king, so instead a law was eventually passed by Congress giving the president the power to commission officers, and the commissioning document today is typically signed by the Secretary of the Navy on the president's behalf. As a matter of common practice, they were and still are referred to as simply, "officers", just as in the other armed services.

The function of the commissioned officer was not to be a technical expert, but to be a combat leader, a kind of soldier at sea, under whom the more seamanly warrant officers and others would serve as sort of glorified nautical chauffeurs. As a practical matter, however, in addition to being fighting leaders the Royal Navy officers became expert in shiphandling, navigation, and piloting, and miscellaneous other aspects of seamanship above the most mundane and technical, much the way a degreed engineer might gain a lot of practical shop-floor knowledge in a manufacturing setting without knowing all the most nitty-gritty details, for instance, and the American Navy inherited this role for its commissioned officers, too.

As the US Navy progressed through history toward modern times, and its vessels and weapons systems and so forth became more complex, it needed a multiplicity of new ratings and a more complicated organizational system than that of the old sailing vessel. More gradations of rank were also deemed needed, and eventually Congress passed laws to implement the same. Congress was integral to this process because only Congress had the legal authority to establish the pay rates or grades that coincided with levels of rank. Eventually, Congress further determined that it should make these uniform across the services, and so you wind up with the equivalency of pay grades you have today between the services, even though more traditional names for various ranks were retained by the individual services. Under these schemes, petty officers ranked above the lower levels of mere seamen, and had higher pay grades.

As recently as World War Two the Navy continued to recognize the idea of the general purpose, old-fashioned seaman (now supplemented by his steam-age engine/boiler-room counterpart, the fireman) as distinct from the petty officers, even though the much more technical Navy of that day compared with 150 years earlier required a lot more of the crew be trained in a rating than ever before. The Navy after the war had a list of different ratings as long as a boatswain's mate's arm, now including things like electrician's mate, radioman, radarman, sonarman, torpedoman, aerologist's mate, machinist's mate, hospital corpsman, personnelman, signalman, motormachinist's mate, aviation machinist's mate, electronics technician, aviation ordinance technician, fire control technician, and eventually even reactor operator, just to name a few.

Thus, after that war the Navy made a fundamental change to its rank/grade system and eliminated all seaman ranks above pay grade E-3; instead, all Navy enlisted personnel who expected to stay in the Navy and rise past E-3 were expected to train in a rate, so that unless a guy wanted to be an E-3 forever, he had no choice but to train for and become a petty officer. And those guys who might have otherwise remained seamen or firemen forever were expected to become boatswain's mates and boiler technicians, respectively. Thus, while petty officers were originally special sailors who one day could aspire to warrant rank and get to be called "Mister", and so on, in the modern Navy practically everybody becomes a petty officer at some point before they eventually get out of the service, and those which make a full career of it normally finish as some gradation of Chief Petty Officer, rather than ever going all the way to warrant officer. To reflect various levels of skill and authority within the petty officer ranks, the Navy by this time had already evolved a series of petty officer gradations, rising from the lowest at Petty Officer Third Class (pay grade E-4) to the highest at Master Chief Petty Officer (pay grade E-9).

Commissioned officers, in the meantime, have evolved into sort of executive managers. While senior petty officers manage the workforce at the "front-line" level, officers get tasked mostly with the administrative overhead chores (although there is some overlap). Only when you are actually on watch or in combat (or a serious casualty, or a formal drill for these evolutions) are you going to see officers giving enlisted people (nowadays, mostly petty officers) a lot of orders on a direct, real-time, one-on-one basis, i.e., in their traditional sailing ship role; perhaps, after all, the role of the officer has not changed so much in 250 years apart from the greatly increased administrative burdens he has.

One final point: while LEGALLY a very junior commissioned officer outranks a very senior petty officer or even a warrant officer (modern warships in the USN have relatively few warrant officers around in my experience -- you usually find them working ashore in shipyards and similar facilities), as a practical matter, he has his hands full if he thinks he is going to just order around somebody with 20+ years of experience and the knowledge that comes with it as against his college midshipman training, or whatever, in the highly complex world of the modern Navy. Everybody knows this and thus only a moron would attempt it. Even the half-way intelligent new naval officer knows to let the senior enlisted people theoretically under him actually run the things he is theoretically responsible for. Senior petty officers function almost entirely in a supervisory role over what you might think of as the front-line work force and generally know their jobs and want to do them right. If the young officer shows them the respect their years of experience, their efforts at work every day, and their dedication to doing a good job merit, and handles things in a defacto team approach with them, he should be okay absent a stroke of really bad luck, and within a couple of years he may know enough about the Navy to actually know when he can call a senior enlisted person out and get away with it because he is right and the other is wrong, or at least, on weak ground.

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It is a real pity that there is no mandatory draft so that people would be informed about basic military information...




the current resident of Our White House has a liberal socialist agenda which is Killing Our Country

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If you have seen Crimson Tide then you may recall that
the COB was played by actor George Zdundza. He was
chief of the boat and by the way the XO or executive
officer besides being second in command is also
responsible for the morale and welfare of the other
officers and the entire enlisted crew. If the captain
dies, is incapacitated or is relieved of command
then the XO will take command of the submarine or ship.


Lorenzo Sunny Florida

I'm James "Sonny" Crockett!

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[deleted]

anyway if the Skipper were to die if a ship or boat were at sea, doesn't mean that the XO would take control. It's possible that another Captain O-6 could be on board, and would pull rank.


He might, and it's possible that the XO will remind said O-6 that he is not in the chain of command.

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[deleted]

Yes but if the XO was just a LCDR, the more senior officer (whether Captain or Admiral) could order him to stand down


He could issue the order. The XO could politely inform him that he has no orders from his chain of command relieving him of duty.

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jclarke,

Moghul knows this. He is a troll pretending to post in ignorance. He will soon start misspelling words intentionally like Mahreen for Marine, loootenant for Lieutenant, etc... When people start correcting him, he'll start whining like a poor victim getting picked on.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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You are correct in that the XO is a billet and not a rank, but you are incorrect as to the second point.

If the CO dies or is relieved, the XO will always take command. That's what the XO is for. That's mostly the reason the billet exists. When the CO is away, the XO takes charge. In most cases, during peacetime, the XO has written orders from the CO in acknowledgement that the XO has assumed command for a temporary term in the even the CO is on leave or away on official duty. For instance, on a submarine or a boat, if there is another Captain O-6 on board, chances are he will not be qualified to take command of the boat or sub only on merit of his rank. He might hold a different billet or job because not all Navy jobs are on boats. The chances of another person of this rank other than the CO even being on the boat are slim to none due to A)the room on the boat, and B) the MTOE slots. There would be no need for two Captains O-6 onboard a submarine as one of them would be useless in the context of the daily workings of a submarine or boat. If another Captain O-6 WAS on board, it would be because he was hitching a ride, so to speak, such as the SEALs who were "hitching a ride" on the Colorado in the pilot episode. Say one of those SEALs was a Lieutenant Commander or Commander (fat chance on a SEAL team, but bear with me). Since he's a SEAL and out of his depth (no pun intended) on the submarine, he would not take command because he does not know how to command submarine, and he would be out of his lane. Likewise for the reverse as the XO does not have the know-how to be a SEAL team leader. At any rate, one Captain O-6 would have command, and one wouldn't; the one who does not have command wouldn't be on the boat because he would either have command somewhere else, or he would be in a staff position somewhere else. Not even a senior O-5 could technically take command in the CO's absence because he does not hold the billet of XO. The officer in said billet is specifically appointed to fill the role of XO and it would make no sense to take that from him and foist it on another officer of the same rank simply because that one is senior by way of time in grade or service. That other officer does not hold the billet, therefore he does not assume command.

If the CO dies, more specifically, the XO will temporarily take charge while a replacement of the correct rank is found from within the Army. He is not usually within the unit. There are many officers out there who are not in leadership billets which could be put in that billet in order to replace the deceased former CO.

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we had a saying in the army

what's the difference between a butter bar (2nd lt or ensign, butter bar refers to their single gold bar of rank) and a private (E-2)? the private was promoted once

a deputy defense director cant relieve anyone from the chain of command, the chain of command is, from captain, admiral of his division or fleet (his direct superior officer) chief of staff of the navy/marine corps, director of department of the navy, director of the the department of defense and president of the US. deputy directors can't relieve anyone, I don't think even the vice president can relieve and officer of command

there might be some links I missed and I'm sorry if I skipped them but ut's been over 20 years since I was in the military and I was army at that

question: if the senior enlisted man on a sub is a COB what do they call the senier enlisted on a surface ship?

Ho Hum, another boring day on the island of pegi pegi
guess the reference

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"COB what do they call the senier enlisted on a surface ship?"

Command Master Chief. The COB has been around much longer though. Way back in the day, the senior enlisted on a ship was the Master-At-Arms, before the 'supergrades', E-8 and E-9 came into being, and before MAA was an actual rating in it's own right.

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If you want to have fun call a subs CoB CMC or a surface crafts CMC CoB. Those crusty farts tend to really get wound up over things like that.

I had my departmental master chief give me crap for calling my boat a "boat".

"This is an ****ing ship, not a ****ing submarine."

"Welcome to the internet, everyone knows everything, and no one likes anything"

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It depends on what size surface ship you are talking about. The axillary and gator navies do not have a senior enlisted rating billet. Neither do destroyers. Usually they are found in the "parade" ships such as cruisers and larger. I personally have never heard the phrase "Chief of the Boat" used on any ship except submarines. Subs are the only warships that sailors refer to as "boats". Everything else is a ship.

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Now days it's any command with 250 or more enlisted people has a CMC assigned. Smaller then that, it becomes a collateral duty, filled by the senior CPO, SCPO, or MCPO. Certain types of units (mainly squadrons) have a 'real' CMC, regardless of size.

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This started in the early 1970's under Zumwalt. I'm kinda surprised it would be news to anybody in 2012.

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Moghul, again you open your trap on what you don't have a fraking clue on. STFU already dumbass.

Note to others... Moghul is a verified troll from several other boards who comes into a board, says the most inane crap imaginable, then pretends to be a victim with his "can't we all just get along" lines.


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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senior enlisted personel are master at arms? I thought it was the shipboard version of MPs or SPs

Ho Hum, another boring day on the island of pegi pegi
guess the reference

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No, Nor did I make any such claim.

MA is a specific rating (MOS or Job)
There are all ranks in the rating of MA.


I think one of the other posters was talking about the position of Master-At-Arms being the senior most enlisted person aboard a ship (much as a Command Master Chief today), Not Senior enlisted in general or the rating of Master At Arms (MA).

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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In the modern era, Master at Arms has only been an actual rating since the mid 1970's. Before that it was a collateral duty. Even when I was in, my ship only had a couple of them, augmented by 'deputy' MAA's, who where drawn from other jobs for six months at a time. Not to be confused with a mess deck MAA (which I never really did see the need for).

Referring to the senior enlisted as the Chief Master at Arms was gone by the 1960's. They still had their regular job to do as well as being the senior enlisted, whereas the modern CMC does nothing else.

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Somebody had to make the skimmers take their lids off in the chow line. lol. On submarines, the MAA and any assistants are still collateral assignments. The only thing I remember the MAA ever doing in his MAA capacity was "serving 'subpoenas'" for the Kangaroo Kourt (a mock court entertainment) for a ballistic missile submarine's "half-way night" celebration.

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[deleted]

anyway if the Skipper were to die if a ship or boat were at sea, doesn't mean that the XO would take control. It's possible that another Captain O-6 could be on board, and would pull rank.

another perfect example of you talking out your arse.
You are 100% wrong.
End of discussion.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[deleted]

So to prove your real life point (which is false) you cite a MOVIE which is even LESS REALISTIC than this writer's crapfest.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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"(which is false) you cite a MOVIE"

Well, we can counter with 'Apocalypse Now'. The commander of the boat was a Chief Petty Officer (E-7). Willard was an O-3 Captain, a much higher rank. But even Willard said 'It was my mission, but it was sure as sh** the Chief's boat'.

I was hoping he might use a real life example from his own navy service.

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Don't do that. Quote me OUT OF CONTEXT.
Also, I am not arguing against the point you made with the Apocalypse now reference, I am arguing against the point the idiot moghul made, which is 180 degrees opposite.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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I think you misunderstood me. I'm on your side, and I'm ex-navy, so I know how 100% wrong he is.
If he can try to use a (of all things) a Steven Seagal film, surely we can use AN.
It was Moghul I was referring to when I asked for a real life example from his own time in the navy.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Well, APOCALYPSE NOW was an outstanding movie, not average drivel and certainly not something designed as a cartoon/soap opera from the first character typed onto the script. I haven't seen it in about 20 years, but what from I remember about it it was very believable. Certainly, I remember a real life chief just like the one in the movie and the resemblance was amazing in every way.

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So to prove your real life point (which is false) you cite a MOVIE which is even LESS REALISTIC than this writer's crapfest.


Well, what about the Star Trek episode where a desk jockey Commodore took command of the Enterprise when Kirk and Spock were incapacitated, and ordered the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone?

Do you really mean to say Star Trek isn't a good example of U.S. military regs?

Oh, you do. Never mind.

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LOL

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Off-topic regarding your signature: I thought that water made up something like more than 75 percent of the world, at least by volume and including other sources besides oceans (rivers, lakes, ice-caps, glaciers, underground sources such as aquifers, vapor/precipitation in the atmosphere, and even water contained in animals)? Anyway, NOAA and other sources indicate the oceans make up over 70 percent of the world's surface area, which is still higher than 66.667 percent. So for you and many others in the Navy, you still saw more than two-thirds of the world (hopefully)...

Peace, Love, and

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The Sig is meant to be humorous, not an encyclopedic fact. So do me a favor and don't be anal.


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Oh I'll get anal with you any time I like, sailor. And we'll do it each and every time to The Village People!

Also, you should have joined the Army instead so you could have discovered the world from Sgt. Hulka's viewpoint: http://youtu.be/0OnpkDWbeJs?t=41s

Peace, Love, and

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Actually, I believe it is about 70% water, so that if you are looking for a nice round fraction you can go with either 2/3 or 3/4 (7/10 being cumbersome for casual conversational purposes).

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[deleted]

Gene Roddenberry was Army Air Force. He had only a dilettante's understanding of the Navy. I also had to wonder sometimes if he hadn't flown a little too high without oxygen at some point.

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Let's make this very simple, at least for boomers. Let's pretend this boomer is out of Kings Bay.

On a sub, the executive officer (a Lt. Commander) reports to the captain (a very senior Commander or a Captain), and that's as far as it goes.

The captain reports to his squadron commander, who is a Captain.

The squadron commander reports to his group commander, who is a Rear Admiral

The group commander reports into Commander, Submarine Force Atlantic, who is a Vice Admiral.

Commander, SUBLANT, reports to the Commander in Chief, US Atlantic Fleet, who is an Admiral.

So, that's the chain of command, and it is followed to a T. If a boat captain is going to be relieved of duty, it will be ordered so by the squadron commander, and no one else. No civilian in the Dept. of Defense can make the call. Definitely no one in the Dept. of the Navy since they are not in the chain of command at all. If the President or Sec. of Defense wanted to relieve a particular officer of duty, it would flow down through the chain of command, bypassing no one in that chain.

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by The_Great_Moghul » Sat Oct 13 2012 10:03:34

the XO is a billet, not a rank - pretty much like a Commandant of a Police Academy might be a Captain in rank
This is correct.

anyway if the Skipper were to die if a ship or boat were at sea, doesn't mean that the XO would take control. It's possible that another Captain O-6 could be on board, and would pull rank.
This is incorrect.

The XO is next in the Chain-of-Command of that ship. If the Commanding Officer is absent or incapacitated, the XO assumes command of the ship. I served on an aircraft carrier (USS Kitty Hawk) from 1969-72, and the CO was an O-6, and the XO was an O-5. There were 2 other O-6's onboard, one commanding the airwing, the other was the Navigator. Still, the O-5 XO was second-in-command, and next in line if the CO was incapacitated. Most times there was also a O-8 Rear Admiral in residence who, though in charge of the Task Force of 3-15 ships, was NOT in the chain of command of CVA-63.

- -
XenaGuy

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What did I tell you guys, the "woe is little me the victim" from him. Just look at his posting history. It abounds with this sort of crap.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[deleted]

Because you only relatively recently started posting here. They don't know you. Give it time. I'm only giving them a heads up. One you are proving correct.
Stop being a troll. You KNOW you are one. and So do I.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[deleted]

WHY you only recently started posting here does not matter. The fact is you have only just started posting here and thus they are not familiar with you and your trolling ways.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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From a former navy submariner-

The CO is the commanding officer, "Captain" or "Skipper". On a US submarine the officer that holds the position of CO is typically an O-5 which is a Commander in rank, if an O-6 is in that position its because he was recently promoted and hasn't taken his shore command yet. The XO is usually an O-4. Both of these officers MUST be nuclear qualified(1 year of nuclear power school/prototype training before hitting the fleet). They each would have spent their entire career on subs and would have served as a division officer, and a dept head on a boat along with 2 shore duty rotations before serving as an XO then CO. Of the CO & XO, one will be a former engineering dept head(reactor officer) and one will be a former navigation officer, doesn't matter which is which but they will each have one of those backgrounds.

I think its interesting that they also didn't mention the other crew of the boat... the boat in the show is a SSBN which has two crews, Gold and Blue, that take turns deploying on that boat.

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Surely BOTH would be former Engineering officers. Things haven't changed that much, have they?

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Always find that weird. The Royal Navy wouldn't dream of giving an engineering officer command of any ship, nuclear submarine or otherwise. Engineering officers are engineers, navigation/deck officers command ships.

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Yes, and a lot of people in the US Navy have talked about that, and whether that isn't a better idea. In the US system we instead train all our nuclear-propelled ship officers to be expert in BOTH fields simultaneously, which may well be asking too much. In particular, the problem perceived in our Navy is that our engineering training is so intensive that it seems to dominate the whole officer selection and development process, placing a disproportionate emphasis on engineering training versus the training and level of mental involvement with all the other things submarine officers have to do. And if that's not bad enough, naval aviators selected to command nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are hit by the the double whammy of having to go back for nuclear power training and for ship command training since their backgrounds are pretty much entirely in aviation. One wonders how good they could possibly be at ALL those things simultaneously.

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But why does this only apply to nuclear-powered vessels? You wouldn't expect the deck officers on a non-nuclear vessel to be engineer officers as well, so why nuclear-powered vessels? I can't imagine navigating a nuclear-powered vessel requires any more detailed knowledge of how it works than navigating a non-nuclear-powered vessel. A basic knowledge, obviously, but not a specialist engineering background.

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Well, it doesn't apply only to nuclear-powered vessels, and in that regard, I would have to say that you imagination fails you in this instance.

In the first place, we are talking about warships, not commercial ships. "Deck officers" have to do more than "navigate" the ship -- they have to FIGHT the ship. The US Navy came to the conclusion some generations ago that therefore they should be knowledgeable in the engineering aspects of their ships. Navy "deck officers" and the commanding officer in particular have to deal with things that aren't in the usual purview of commercial deck officers, such as, in particular, coping with battle damage, and in that sense making quick decisions while under fire that affect the ship's continued combat-worthiness or even it's very survival.

As a result, on conventionally powered ships officers will have gotten engineering department training and on-the-job experience by the time they reach seniority for command. However, neither that training nor the operational standards for conventional power plants are anywhere near as intensive and exacting as the nuclear program, as discussed further below. The result is that it generally does not distract them from developing their warfighting, as opposed to engineering, knowledge and skills. Possibly the only exception to this might have been conventionally aircraft carriers of the "supercarrier" variety, which sometimes had "Engineering Duty Only (EDO)" officers for the engineering officers, but that was only owing to the sheer size and extent of their plant type, rather than to its fundamental nature, which was plain old-fashioned 600-pound oil-fired steam. That said, there is no longer any such ship still in service anywhere in the world.

Nuclear power is another matter, however. Nuclear power is to conventional power what space travel is to ordinary atmospheric flight. It's like the difference between a Formula One race car and a Volkswagen Beetle. Among other things, in conventionally powered vessels you don't have to contain radioactivity. Nuclear power is an unusually dangerous power source. With nuclear power, you are dealing with the same kind of thing that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. An old fashioned steam plant, or a diesel plant, or even a gas turbine, are all technologies that are used all over all sorts of different industries in civilian life without there necessarily being a great depth of expertize required simply because they can't cause anywhere near the damage that nuclear plants can when something goes wrong. Even with gas turbines, which are used on aircraft, the potential for the same kind of mass destruction is not there -- there has never been an engine failure in flight in the history of aviation that the did the kind of damage that Chernobyl did, or even the more recent destruction of the Japanese plant that was hit by the tsunami -- and the level of theory a mechanic needs to understand to properly maintain one is nothing like what operators of nuclear power plants have to have to operate the latter safely. In this regard, a much greater level of understanding of theory is required to know how far you can push a plant in terms of its design limits in emergency situations, as well.

Therefore, in the US Navy it was decided at the program's inception in the early 1950's that the captain should know just as much about it as the engineering officers, just as he typically would in a conventionally-powered submarine. Otherwise, in a power plant casualty situation, he'd basically have to give over command of the ship to the engineering department, and in combat, he might not have enough knowledge about how far he could push his plant outside peacetime acceptable operating parameters. The problem is that given nuclear power's much greater dangers and complexity the training and operating program that is required to do it as safely as it should be done is much more demanding in every way that for conventional power plants. It takes a year of training in both theory and practice just to learn to qualify on a ship's nuclear power plant, which for officers is at least the equivalent to a post-graduate engineering degree in a University (really, it is probably significantly more than that). Moreover, given nuclear power's inherent dangerousness, one particular characteristic of the nuclear power program is that it allows almost zero tolerance for errors. Thus, aboard ship nuclear power considerations tend to dominate over operational ones and again there is a tremendous demand placed on nuclear-trained people to fully and completely comply with its extensive special requirements. Both these factors -- training and operational -- thus tend to absorb the attention of officers to extent that it was often thought that their warfighting skill set and mentality was taking second place, and with palpable results.







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However, I don't think anyone would dispute that Royal Navy officers are any less capable of fighting their ships than US Navy officers and they don't have any engineering training or experience! An RN ship's captain will almost certainly never have served in the engineering department at any point in his career. He will have served as a watchkeeping officer, as a navigating officer, as a warfare officer and maybe as an aircrew officer, but certainly not as an engineering officer. He will doubtless have a good basic knowledge of how his ship works, but not of the minutiae, which he will leave to his specialist engineering officers, who have engineering degrees and have been engineering officers for their entire careers. It seems to me that it's better to be an expert in one thing.

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Well, like I was trying to tell you, it's a debatable point. Many highly-placed people with far more expertize than you or me seem to think the American system is better. It may also be reflected in the experience of the British in the Falklands war. During that war the British lost four ships to air-to-surface Exocet missiles, and the idea eventually began to circulate around the US Navy that at least some of those ships were abandoned too readily when in fact a more vigorous damage control effort would have saved them. Later on in the 80's that experience was able to be contrasted with the similar attack of an Iraqi Silkworm air-to-surface missile on a US frigate similar to some of the British ships lost, wherein the American ship survived and was even able to steam back to port under its own power. Given that damage control is an engineering function, differing attitudes toward damage control efforts may have been born at least in part from the difference in knowledge on the part of the officers in command.

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Wow! Lots of great info on here! I appreciate everyone's input.

Now, about the show and it's observation of the ranks on board. From what I can gather from the dialoge, the female officer (Grace) clearly outranks the COB. The COB holds her in utter disdain, addresses her by her given name rather than her rank, and is clearly disrepectful of her in every sentence he utters. Would her really get away with that in the real world?

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Absolutely not. That is one of the major goofs as far as the "Characters not acting like real sailors"

the troubles with this show are in two basic groups as far as I am concerned.

1) Characters not acting like Sailors
2) Technical major screwups like the depth charges (not used by USA) and Cruise Missiles targeting submerged vessels (impossible)


Even if the COB had such disdain for her. He would NEVER EVER show it so openly and in-your-face as is shown on the show. It would be completely subtle and to the point that if she were to ever complain about it, it would be nigh on impossible to "prove"

You don't get to be the Command Master Chief without being smart and knowing the right thing to do and doing it. Of all the unrealistic sailors on this show, COB's is the worst. The acting on the part of Robert Patrick is great. He is acting the part he is given. It is just that the part he is given resembles a Chief of the Boat about as Much as Gomer Pyle resembles and actual Marine.

No show is perfect and Crimson Tide has it's problems as much as any show does. But it is far more realistic than this series can hope to be. George Dzundza plays the part of USS Alabama's Chief of the Boat and does an excellent job. Even though he holds the XO in about the same level of contempt as this one does for the female Officer, he still sides with the XO against his Captain and friend because the XO was right and the Captain was violating procedures.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Now, about the show and it's observation of the ranks on board. From what I can gather from the dialoge, the female officer (Grace) clearly outranks the COB. The COB holds her in utter disdain, addresses her by her given name rather than her rank, and is clearly disrepectful of her in every sentence he utters. Would her really get away with that in the real world?


In general, no. If she really wanted to make an example out of him she could bring an Article 89 against him, which has a maximum penalty of a bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for one year. However it is surprising that the Captain hasn't already chewed his ass off over it. But then he gives the Captain a load of crap too, which is kind of like taunting a deity.

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1) I doubt if any NCO on a boat or ship would act like that, openly, to an officer. Especially an O-3, who's been in at least 4 years. And definitely not a master chief. Those guys are invariably past the 20 year mark, and you don't screw up your pension and reputation at that point. Would a master chief grouse with the other chiefs? Possibly. To the captain? Probably not, but possibly, since the COs tend to ask master chiefs their opinion on junior officers. Then again, the female LT isn't really a junior officer, she's middle management.

2) Lets assume for argument's sake that the master chief did do something stupid, and the LT pressed the issue. I'm pretty sure it would go to captain's mast instead of Article 89 or any formal charges. The master chief may end up with a new roommate as a punishment, and if I remember correctly, berthing pecking order on a sub is serious business. A buddy of mine was an LTjg on his first cruise and he was berthed with CPOs. Better than a rack in the back, but a solid initiation as a junior officer to serve on older attack subs. It was a Sturgeon-class boat.

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2) Lets assume for argument's sake that the master chief did do something stupid, and the LT pressed the issue. I'm pretty sure it would go to captain's mast instead of Article 89 or any formal charges. The master chief may end up with a new roommate as a punishment, and if I remember correctly, berthing pecking order on a sub is serious business.


If the Chief wasn't giving the Captain just as much crap as he was the LT I'd agree on the Captain's Mast. But he's clearly slipped a cog and needs to be separated from the service.

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The ranks on the boat in the show are totally out of whack with reality.

A bit of back-story... Every officer on a US sub is a nuke officer, except the supply officer. Nuke officers go from the USNA or OCS to nuke school for a year and then sub school for I believe 6 months if they are going to a sub. Most get to a boat as a butter bar about to put on LTJG and put on LTJG soon after arrival. As an ensign/LTJG they will be serving as a division officer(ie m-div).

By the time an officer is a LT on a boat they will be a dept head(engineering officer, weapons officer, navigation officer etc)

There are no surface officers that switch to sub service or vice versa, with the exception of a sub officer going to a surface ship because of a medical problem that eliminates them from sub service. This female officer wouldn't exist at this time in the navy, because it wouldn't be possible for her to have spent enough time on a sub to be an LT(USN just started allowing women on subs recently)

It is definitely possible that the COB would hate her guts, being that she would be the first female office he has ever served with and being an admiral's kid wouldn't help matters. He would probably get away with the way he acted towards her in the beginning of the first episode but more than likely in the real navy he would have just made her life miserable from behind the scenes and been really passive aggressive toward her.

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"This female officer wouldn't exist at this time in the navy, because it wouldn't be possible for her to have spent enough time on a sub to be an LT(USN just started allowing women on subs recently)

It is definitely possible that the COB would hate her guts, being that she would be the first female office he has ever served with and being an admiral's kid wouldn't help matters. He would probably get away with the way he acted towards her in the beginning of the first episode but more than likely in the real navy he would have just made her life miserable from behind the scenes and been really passive aggressive toward her."




This series I suppose takes place sometime in the "near future" when women DO serve on subs, and it seems, have been for a while now.

It said on the pilot that 8 women in total served on the Colorado, of which, Sheppherd and Cortez were the only two who were officers (or Cortez was the senior female enlisted, I didn't see her rank)

Sheppherd being an admiral's child shouldn't matter anyway since many officers children enlist as well, either as enlited or officers. They don't get any special treatment BECAUSE of their father's rank, they have to earn that themselves

The captain's own son was a PFC in the marine corps, do you think HE got any special treatment because his father was a navy captain?

Ho Hum, another boring day on the island of pegi pegi
guess the reference

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Shepherd being an admiral's child shouldn't matter anyway since many officers children enlist as well, either as enlisted or officers. They don't get any special treatment BECAUSE of their father's rank, they have to earn that themselves

Apparently you never heard of Timothy Dorsey and what his Admiral daddy did for him.

Normally what you state is true for the vast majority, but it does happen.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Well, it certainly didn't seem to help Chester Nimitz's son any. He took a lot of typical submariner "chaff" for being CINCPAC's son.

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I didn't mean to imply it happens regularly. Only that it has happened.
Albeit, rarely.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Cortez was a Petty Officer 1st Class.

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Don't real Submariners address their captain as CO (commanding officer) instead of Captain, whether or not he/she is an O-6 Captain?

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Subs are no different than any other commissioned ship of the line.

Captains, regardless of their real rank, are addressed as 'captain' or, if they permit it, "skipper".

You would use the term "commanding officer" or "CO" if you were referring to their position aboard the ship.

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Don't real Submariners address their captain as CO (commanding officer) instead of Captain, whether or not he/she is an O-6 Captain?


There's only one captain aboard a Navy ship, and he's the guy in charge, even if he's a First Class. If there is a Navy 0-6 aboard who is not in command, he used to be called "commodore"--I don't know if they still do that or if they call him "Rear Admiral (Lower Half)" now. A Non-Navy O-3 would be referred to as "Major".

When it's urgent that the Captain be contacted for any reason "Go tell the Captain", "Take this to the Captain", and "Go get the Captain" have to mean only one person, and it's not some Army O-3 being transported.

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Good point.

When I was in the navy, long long ago, the "Commodore" was a rank filled only in time of war (as is Fleet Admiral).

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"Commodore"

They brought the one star rank back in the early 1980's.

One John Lehman's favorites (Paul D. Miller) was up for his first star, and wanted to be an Admiral, not a Commodore, so Lehman called in some favors in congress, and got it changed to Rear Admiral (Lower Half).

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Rear Admiral (lower half) sounds even dumber than Commodore.

The egos of some of these flag officers just amazes me.

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That's the same guy that got his third star ahead of schedule. They went to congress and used U.S. Grant and Ike as their examples, and he got his third star for 'the good of the nation'.

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That is so much BS! Both Grant and Ike were generals in time of war.

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You think that's BS, try looking up Timothy W. Dorsey.

As a Lt(jg) he DELIBERATELY shot down a KNOWN friendly in a NON-FIRING exercise and nearly killed two fellow aviators.
Due to his Admiral daddy influence, nothing happened to Dorsey other than not being allowed to fly again.

Dorsey was selected earlier this year for promotion to Rear Admiral by the Obama Administration.

The pilot he almost killed was medically discharged a month before he could pull his full pension.
Has lost his life savings in back surgery operations due to injuries sustained in the ejection.
And VA refuses to cover because they claim the injuries were not service related despite a Naval doctor stating they most certainly are.
And cannot walk more than a few feet without aid.

And Dorsey has not once ever apologized to the Pilot.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Appointments are made as recommended by military authorities and Congress. The president is merely the signatory.

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Appointments are made as recommended by military authorities and Congress. The president is merely the signatory.

Congress has final approval or "Confirmation" of the appointments, they don't make or recommend them.

The appointments are made through the defense department at the civilian level (Secretary of the Navy, Secretary of Defense) which falls under the control of the White House hence they are part of the Obama administration as they are themselves appointed by the president and work directly for him in the Executive branch.


Dorsey is right now awaiting Senate Confirmation of his appointment.



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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High level military officers such as Generals and Admirals are appointed by the President on the recommendation of the military establishment and the Congress.

Source: http://www.presidential-appointments.org/military_appointments.htm

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the sidebar is worded a tad imprecisely.

to continue from your very own link. the very next sentence in that paragraph goes on to state... "A variety of military boards such as the Joint Chiefs of Staff are also appointed by the President."

ALSO has a very specific intent. it means "in addition to" mean he does the others as well.

But that is just an introductory sidebar. lets move on to the MEAT of the article...

Tracking confirmation of Military appointments is different than for civilian appointments. First, the announcement of nominations for rank - whether a solider should be made a General or an Admiral, or promoted to a higher rank in that group - the President makes the nomination, although it is not reported through the White House in the usual way...



Also when you click through a link to search the current pending list, you find the following....
The President makes the nominations of senior military officers, already confirmed as officers - for senior rank as Generals and Admirals of various levels.

http://www.presidential-appointments.org/Military%20Nominations%20Awai ting%20Confirmation.html

In the list itself, Nominated by THE PRESIDENT... you find the following....

Feb 16, 12 PN1390 Navy
The following named officer for appointment in the United States Navy
Reserve to the grade indicated under title 10, U.S.C., section 12203:
Capt. Timothy W. Dorsey, to be Rear Admiral (lower half)



And if that is not enough for you. read the LINK ITSELF.
www.presidential-appointments.org


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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gsfsu took only a few minutes to respond back and forth.
Now it has been over half an hour and no response to the last.

Realize you were wrong?

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Then the link is self-contradictory but I really don't give a crap and one of the reasons is what I learned while in the navy. Dealing with egotistical senior officers was unpleasant but dealing with know-it-all 90-day-wonders was much worse. Generally, I have no use for them nor do I pal around in their social circles.

I had a name for the navy while serving and it had something to do with chickens and their excrement. I have not changed my mind in the many decades following. It was valuable life experience but I would not do it again.

The only time you will see me cheering for the navy is on the football field.

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And then Dorsey went to law school. Is he banging a Marine major I wonder?

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Nahhh... An Aussie cock-blocked him.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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WHOA WHOA WHOA CG. NO presidential administration promotes anybody to admiral. That is done exclusively through a process that goes through the Navy, via an admiral's selection board made up of admirals of the same grade. That promotion process is established by federal statute (i.e., federal law passed by Congress) and that is the way that that works. If any exception is made, Congress has to make it before the president signs it.

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I'm not sure if I should be proud or embarrased that I learned this as a kid by reading "Starship Troopers".

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Oh, God, don't make me do this again. I wrote practically a dissertation on this on a string for IN HARM"S WAY several years ago. Bottom line is, "commodore" WAS a rank at various times, but like the word "captain", was (and still remains) also a position. The word "commodore" is the honorific (not rank, per se) given to a person in charge of a certain GROUP OF ships. For instance, for purely administrative purposes submarines are organized into squadrons, and the guy in charge of a squadron is called the commodore of the squadron. As a practical matter, submarine, destroyer, and amphibious squadrons have commodores with the rank of captain, but since they are not the commanding officers of a ship or shore installation, they are not addressed as captain when aboard their command, but as "Commodore".

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It is not just submariners, but Naval in general. the term Captain is used in two different ways in the Navy. As the title of a RANK (O-6) and as a TITLE for the position of the CO or Commanding Officer of a ship or unit. They are not always the same thing. You can have a Captain who is captain of a ship, but you can also have a Commander who is captain of a ship as well, but he is still a commander in rank.

In major commands, like an SSBN, or a Cruiser or Carrier, they are the same. Smaller Commands like SSN's or Destroyers/Frigates could have lesser ranks in the position of Captain.

In other Fictional films which realistically portray the situation...
Commander(rank) Bart Mancuso was the captain(Position) of USS Dallas.
Captain(rank) Frank Ramsey was captain(position) of USS Alabama.


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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CGSailor, you mentioned the Wichita, AOR-1, I was on the Milwaukee, AOR-2 for the better part of the mid 80's. Left in 89, I understand they were scrapped in the early 90's. Had I stayed, come May 21st next year, I would have had 30.

A friend of mine is dating a former nuke electrician that served 15 years aboard boomers. He lost his security clearance over a nasty divorce & got kicked up to surface. After failing to make chief 3 times, they pushed him out. It all worked out though, he is now working for one of the shipyards in the Portsmouth area making the big bucks.


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We did a LOT of scrapping in the early to mid 90's. One of the reasons myself and so many others got out of the service.

Granted, with the fall of the Soviet Union, some cutbacks were in order naturally, But slick Willie Clinton cut us to the bone, and some say... through it.

We had just spent several hundred million or so upgrading two whole Classes of Guided Missile Cruisers with the NTU (New Threat Upgrade). 18 ships in all. This made them the near equivalent of an Aegis systems equipped ship like the Ticonderoga class and the Arleigh Burke class ships.
We WERE Aegis without the phased array radar (SPY-1B)

After only one or if we were lucky, two, deployments, all 18 ships were scrapped over the course of a few months. For example, USS Gridley (CG-21) received NTU in 1991 at a cost of $55 million but was decommissioned in early 1994.

Which lead to my ship's cameo appearance on "Down Periscope"
As they are seeing the "USS Rustoleum" for the first time, all those other decommed ships in the background are the Cruisers of the Belknap and Leahy class, including (3rd from right) my USS Halsey CG-23.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[deleted]

Sure you did dumbass.
You are nothing but a liar. you have demonstrated your ignorance of the military time and time again.

NO ONE is buying your *beep*
You only prove how much a loser you are.

Some of your posts you have used the excuse of being only a kid to justify your ignorance, others you claim to not be American and English is not you primary language as your excuse for your idiocy.

You are irrelevant.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[deleted]

You did actually, but regardless, you did not refute that you claimed to be from elsewhere other than American, And that English not being your native language as your piss-poor excuse for intentional misspellings.
Thus you could not have served aboard Baton Rouge.
NO one buys the crap you are selling Moghul. All you are doing is being an A$$

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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"Thus you could not have served aboard Baton Rouge."

If you go back on this same thread, you will find a deleted post (deleted by the poster). That was Moghul, responding to me, where asked him for examples from his own time in the navy. He responded with the now deleted post, stating that he had never been in the navy, but had relatives that were. He deleted that post, and replaced it with the first 'Baton Rouge' post.
It's currently on page 9 of this thread.

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OK smartass.

If you were in the Navy, (which you weren't)
You would have absolutely no trouble telling me what this means.



05-127-0-L
127-138
OE



Anybody who was ever in the Navy could answer it in their sleep.
And no one else answer, this is for the Stolen Valor troll Moghul who is pretending to be former Navy.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Glad I read the bottom lines. I thought you were talking to me for moment!!

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What viewing mode do you use? there are four modes, two of them are impossible to tell who is replying to who. The other two indent the posts from the ones in which they are replying to. Nested is the best in this case.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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I wasn't in the US Navy, so that's all "Greek" to me! (http://youtu.be/bcYppAs6ZdI).

However, I do know what "8675309" means... (Thanks! Since you're such a great audience, I want you to know that I'll be working here all night!)

Peace, Love, and

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Please don't remind me of that. I didn't like either the song or the summer it came out (1982).

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I'm in the Marines and I just finished spending 4 months on an Amphibious Landing ship. I know the first line is a compartment designation, and it mean that compartment is on the 05 level of the ship. I have no idea what the second line is, and I think the third line is the division responsible for that compartment. Am I right?

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What part of NO ONE ELSE ANSWER did you not get? This was specifically for a *beep* troll that was claiming to be in the Navy and wasn't.

THANKS A FRAKING LOT!
You just fraked up the trolltrap on a stolen valor *beep*

Maybe you can delete your post before he sees it.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Or maybe you give him too much attention.

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how about you delete the post please.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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I think you're getting too worked up about this guy.

Chill.

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Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. Either way it is my right to get worked up or not over this a-hole. He was sh!ttalking about Marines on the Taking Chance board. You know.. the film about HONORING a fallen Marine?
And now he claims to be Military when he is not. I have a long history with this a-hole and it was always at a level of annoyed amusement, but he has crossed a line.

So how about you let me have my fun at him and delete your spoiling post?


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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I don't care who he's been talking sht to... He can say whatever he wants. You don't need to prove he's a liar, he's done that for you already.

And seeing how worked up my answer to your original question has gotten you, I'm assuming I was correct.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

bullsh!t on your "supplement", you're just going along with the other a-hole's answer.

and since his answer was entirely correct, just which parts were "accurate and inaccurate?"

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[deleted]

Dude, he's a jarhead. It's really not his fault :-)

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Jarhead's and computers don't mix.
LOL

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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I hate to break it to you, CG, but we didn't have that in submarines. If I hadn't been in ROTC, I wouldn't have known what it is (in fact, I only get part of it, at this point).

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No. They might refer to the CO as the CO (generally in some off-the-boat context), but to his face they call him "captain." Also, by the time I was in submarines, a lot of things had gotten more formalized since WWII, and nobody ever used the word "skipper" anymore, for anything. Also abandoned was the expression "exec" for executive officer; practically the only guy old enough on any boat I was on to still be using that expression was one of my CO's. Rather, the typical terminology for addressing people was to call the XO, XO, and then to call each department head by his title, i.e., Navigator, Engineer, and "Weaps" for Weapons. The navigator might sometimes be called "Nav", and I remember how we once talked about whether it would be silly or not to call the engineering officer "Eng". The supply officer might also sometimes be called by that position's tradition nickname on submarines, "Chop" (because his supply Corps insignia is some kind of oak leaf thing that was shaped kind of like a pork chop, and besides, he was responsible for the food aboard), and the corpsman (i.e., the enlisted medical guy we had who was not a doctor but something closer to a paramedic), "Doc."

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I remember how we once talked about whether it would be silly or not to call the engineering officer "Eng".


I never heard of one being called "Eng" even in the Surface Fleet. He was called "Ching" As in ChEng.. or Chief Engineer
He even had ChEng stenciled on his Command Ballcap.

The supply officer might also sometimes be called by that position's tradition nickname on submarines, "Chop" (because his supply Corps insignia is some kind of oak leaf thing that was shaped kind of like a pork chop, and besides, he was responsible for the food aboard)

I've heard that one. Aboard our ship however they used "Suppo" for SUPPly Officer




I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Chop is the standard submarine term. And we didn't call the Engineer, "Eng". We just had a conversation about whether that wouldn't be a silly thing to do.

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CG: It's a community specific difference in that submarines never refer to a "Chief" engineer. It's just the Engineer. Actually one of the very few billets left that frocks to O-4, along with ChEng on a Ticonderoga.

Gatorman: On HMJ the wardroom referred to him as "the ENG", but not to his face.

"You feel the way the boat moves? The sunlight on your skin? That’s real. Life is wonderful."

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I never heard of anybody in the Navy using the term "chief engineer". If they did that on your CG, that's a new one on me. It is a traditional merchant marine term, and they call him "Chief" for short.

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COB is an acronym for Chief Of the Boat and is the senior enlisted man aboard.

XO stands for Executive Officer, which is the second in command.

"Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I don't think Hugo can track anything."

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...the person they keep referring to as "THE COB."

The nicknames are for where the sailor is from based upon that state's chief agricultural product. The Terminator/Unit dude is from Iowa, the largest corn producing state, so he is called the COB. Another sailor from Georgia is the PEACH, the sailor from Idaho is the SPUD, and so on.



Maverick: Geez, I crack myself up.

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Two things....
1) Ha.

and
2) Ha.



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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