MovieChat Forums > Let It Shine (2012) Discussion > So it 'is' of for a girl to slap a 'boy'...

So it 'is' of for a girl to slap a 'boy' now?

posted 12 years ago by lostboys-2
44 replies | jump to latest

I was just wondering in light of the Chris Brown and Rhianna fight and how the media tried to go after Chris for physically assaulting Rhianna. Now, I agree that Chris did a lot more damage but so many women's groups kept going with the same mantra that no one has the right to put their hands on anyone doesn't that hold the same for both Genders?

If it were Cyrus who slapped Coco for running out on the stage, would their be a uprising against that message/image?

It's time to be fair. If it is wrong for males to assault females then the net scene should have been Coco in handcuffs.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

>>>” You see the picture here? “

No, I do not see your picture at all. You recipe does not match what society has been pushing and in someways it is creating a severe double standard. But, let's look at in this example.

If Coco's character was a black belt in Karate but lacks the pass of being smaller size, would she then be in handcuffs?

“ Plus, females are the ones that carry out the next generation of people so there's much higher respect in that on a male's part. “

Unless science has moved forward on As'exual reproduction, the “higher” respect was lost a few decades back. The Feminist, while I someways get their point, their goal was for society to treat women as “equals”. If you choose to go the route that you mention, I highly recommend a country in which the trade off of being a “protected” gender is traded with being a “controlled” gender. Or maybe a time machine back to the time of the Stepford wives.

If I can ask though. A year or so ago, a angry Lesbian sister slapped a Black male working at a McDonalds because he would not take her $50.00 bill. She was shorter than him and when he slapped her back she jumped over the counter to continue to attack him.

In your reality, does she deserve a “Higher Respect” than the male she punched first? Was he wrong to respond to defend himself?

You see, in your line of thinking you do not think its a “Big Deal” when one child hits another as long as one is a female. For the parents of the “sons” of our society, I think they might feel you are wrong but on a unbelievable level of wrong, which can only be reached by attempting to justify a double sidedness. That you believe that its a generally accepted belief just shows that you are out of step with the times.

It also holds the belief that each boy that is hit or slapped will not hit back.

Sorry, that ship has sailed as well.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

>>>"We just live in one wacky society where things aren't fair but have their reasons; hence why it's a whole lot different for a male to hit a female if they deserve it."

As a male as well, and one that is close to the education system, I just hold that it is a major double standard that has been in play in society. Thankfully, it is starting to go away as more light is placed on it and arguments of reasoning are placed before those who still wish to hold on to them.

Your argument, is at best, that its just the way it is and that you do not feel that it should change. Listen to your statement...."if they deserve it"? If the Kris character had of done bodily harm to Coco's character, then maybe that is a "deserve it" moment. Then you fly into the anti bullying movement and then it is best to a adult or a authority figure.

All Roxxie's character suffered was a broken heart. My point is....for a film aimed at the youth of our society..., does having your heart broken merit anyone, child or adult, the right to assault another?

To me, Disney was wrong on this one.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

>>>"I was just going on about why it's not as much of a big deal for girls to hit boys in general "

With the desire to be treated as equals do you feel that should change? How long ago was it no big deal for a woman to be "corrected" by their boyfriends or husbands because they were out of line? If it were your son and he was hit by a girl at school.... would you wave him off as "not as much of a big deal"?

>>>" but we really don't need to carry out her punishment as her getting arrested, haha. "

Why, not... happens to boys who physically assault their girlfriends all the time? You know the lady with the scales in front of the courthouses .... Justice is supposed to be blind in our society, is it not?

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

>>>" I never known of a situation where a person was arrested just for slapping some one because it's just a pretty weak crime in my book, a lot less worse than your average shoplifting. "

Notice you say "in my book", which is basically saying in your opinion. I am sure there are parent's of girls whose boyfriends have slapped them and do you think their "book" reads the same as theirs? Do you think that the parents of a boy should let the assault on their child pass just because he is a boy?

I guess the corner you are in is... Roxxie "hit" Cyrus. One teenager hit another teenager. Is this a message that Disney should promote in today's society, that it is ok to "correct" half of the world's population by hitting them?

You are a African American male, just like me. The days of "Good Times" and James Evans are over.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Poweranimals 12 years ago

The bottom line is that girls are more fragile than guys. So a guy slapping a girl is a bigger deal because the chance of physical harm is increased. There's also the emotional factor. A guy is going to feel much less threatened than a girl is.

"Has anyone seen my bucket of plutonium? It's about yay big and is super radioactive."

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

>>>” Slapping is something that is not worth being arrested for. Parents of girls who have been slapped by boys should go talk to the boy and his parents. Pressing charges over a slap is just silly because it's such a minor assault.”

Ok, so in one post you agree it is a crime and in this post you have even defined it. The only thing now is that you are attempting to define a crime as “minor”. I still wonder if it were your daughter who came home and told you as a parent that she was “slapped” by her boyfriend would you still consider it a “minor” crime. Every day people are getting arrested for assault and even for the threat of a pending assault.

Tell me this, I know I ask of you many questions but, in your scenario say your daughter or son was slapped...you went to the other persons parents and they laughed you off.... in your mind it is a silly minor crime. What is your next move as a parent? What happens if the assault happens again? Would you go to the police at that point?

>>>”The bottom line is that girls are more fragile than guys. So a guy slapping a girl is a bigger deal because the chance of physical harm is increased. There's also the emotional factor. A guy is going to feel much less threatened than a girl is”

Fragile...are you kidding? So lets look at it this way. I am a African American male, and say a smaller Asian male kicks me in the head.... he is smaller than me in size and weight.... Since society feels that I am supposed to be “stereotypically” more prone to fighting and violence.... should the law work against me if I call the police?

You see your “bottom line” is what society stereotypes us into. Especially, in some cases us as African American males. This is why the symbol of justice are scales and a lady blindfolded. It is also why the young female prison population is growing. The image of the weak and fragile girl is gone and thankfully dying.

Try this, Poweranimal … check out the video of the girls in Baltimore who beat up the transgendered girl at the McDonalds. You can find it on Youtube. The ages are in the late teens just a bit older than this cast.

A crime is still a crime guys. If you base justice on societal stereotypes then we are back into the 40s and 50s.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

I'm not going to call the police over it. A SLAP? You're going to call the police on a woman who slaps you?"

Umm, yes I am. If it were me who slapped another person, be it a woman or male, assault is assault.

>>>"a little over your head because of how much it's overlooked by people compared to a male hitting a girl. "

Well, is this how we begin to effect change. It used to be that bullying was overlooked as a passage of life. That is until the school shootings began and continue. When it was just the nerdy outcast going home and crying in his pillow folks did as you said and just "overlooked" it. Now as the bodies are counted and a familiar mantra of ..."yeah they picked with the shooter all of the time".... Now society wants to do something about bullying. Think about all of the groups throughout history that society dismissed what was done to them because it was not a big deal. This is how we change things, and it starts by someone pointing out the double standard that Disney has put forth when Roxxie slapped Chris.

I would confront the guy and tell him not to hit my daughter, but there's no need for the police.

Wow... I think a few mothers and fathers of daughters will think you are wrong. If you ignore the slap today, the tears you cry when your child is on the morgue table will be heartbreaking.

>>>"They'll likely laugh in my face more if I tell them that I'm going to press charges over their kid slapping my kid. You think they won't find that silly? "

No, they will take it seriously because it is an assault.

"ANYONE CAN BE A VICTIM! Victims can be of any age, sex, race, culture, religion, education, employment or marital status. Although both men and women can be abused, most victims are women. " Source http://www.domesticviolence.org/who-are-the-victims/

Sorry, but because the police can be held liable if they do nothing, same as the school system..... the very last thing they will do is laugh and dismiss your charge as silly.

Yes, but even certain simple assaults such as these don't need the police.

Simple assaults? What is that? Who draws the line between simple and complex assault? You? Me? .... You believe that society will or should dismiss some crimes because of the victims?

As you said ... "come on"? All the websites dealing with Assaults declare it is a crime, even you declared it is a crime. Isn't justice supposed to be blind my friend? How can we have a just and free society of laws when some decide that the degree is based on the gender or the race of the victim and the attacker?

Also, I asked about the case of the girls who beat up the transgender person at the McDonalds in Baltimore.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-09-13/news/bs-md-co-mcdonalds-sentencing-20110913_1_chrissy-lee-polis-teonna-monae-brown-transgender-woman

This was girls beating up on a person that was born a man.... Dragged the person through the McDonalds and brutally assaulted him. Does this news story sorta make your "fragile" argument/point sorta get thrown out of the window? :)

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

“That assault is weak, period. People get slapped all the time but they're not going to call the police over it unless it was a beat down.

Where do you live? Sounds like you live in some Gone with the Wind / Twilight Zone. People get assaulted all of the time and they call the police all of the time. It is not a felony but according to the law in most states it is called a misdemeanor assault which can/does carry jail time up to 12 months. You are arguing against the law, just because to your personal view you feel that it is weak. The law is against your personal view and unless you change the law the “period” does not rest where you desire or feel it should.

“Misdemeanor assault, also referred to as a simple assault, generally means an act of violence against another person but can actually include any physical contact made without consent. Even a threat of bodily harm made with an apparent ability to cause the harm is considered assault.“

A SLAP!!! Come on now. Not worth calling the police over. Like name calling?

Please see the previous cut and paste and the part that says “physical contact” or the “threat of bodily harm”. Is it because you just do not know the law, my friend?

They are definitely going to think I'm crazy and tell me that it's not that serious. And you know what, they'll be absolutely right.

I want you to contact a few Police officers or speak to a few teachers and ask them if you came to them and said a child was physically assaulted what they would do. Each of them, especially teachers, would act with great speed. Police would do the same. This is because their careers are on the line. This is a litigious society and no one will call you crazy because the victims rights groups and lawyers would be after their blood, if it was heard that they did nothing. So, again, your personal feelings are going against the law.

And what are you trying to prove with this? We're talking about slapping here. Not beating people up.

Oh... do you not remember these statement.

Poweranimals: “The bottom line is that girls are more fragile than guys. “

huntleydevonte-1: Fragile! That was the word I was looking for in my first comment. Yes, and emotions definitely fit in there.

Sorry, Huntley I was just shredding that “girls are fragile” image you want society to continue to accept. The video of these teenage girls dragging a transgendered man across a McDonalds restaurant and savagely beating him, just shatters that myth. As I said, young girl populations in the prison system

If you still want to hold on and not see what I am trying to prove:

This increase isn’t just a regional issue, however. It is a nationwide trend. According to the Institute on Women & Criminal Justice the number of women in prison has grown 832% in the past three decades. (The male population grew 416% during the same period.) Of this population African American girls and young women are the fastest growing group. The Department of Justice reports that black females are 2.5 times more likely to be arrested than Hispanics and 4.5 times more likely than whites.

Do you still wish to hold on to your “fragile” belief my Brother? :) It seems the court system is also not with you and change is coming.

I just feel that for society to “work”, if a girl gets slapped or a boy gets slapped the law is for them to be treated equally. Disney dropped the ball. If Kris had of slapped Roxxie, the women's groups would be up in arms about it. As males we should expect the laws to protect our sons as well as our daughters. Over and over you acknowledge the law but refuse to want to apply it equally? The Taliban and other Islamic extremist declare that men and women are not equal and that a womans place is behind her husband. Is this the way you feel that American law should be handled. A two class system?

The question to ask is this.... would Disney have shown a White male getting slapped?

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

I don't understand why you're bringing up the law when Cyrus did not clearly show signs of serious violation or sustained injury from that single slap as far as we know.

So, the ...”its not assault as long as you do not leave a mark”? The law states that the threat of assualt is enough to be considered a crime so in turn would not the law see any form of “contact” as a crime? Again, you feeling it is not a crime does not make it not a crime, does it?

…..but turning this around, couldn't Roxxie consider his behavior harassment?

Well, in truth, since Kris was a talent that was working under Roxxie's record label ….and she slapped him.... That is workplace harassment of a employee being physically punished by his boss. I see a potential lawsuit... its called “hostile work environment”

Wow, Roxxie's just gets deeper and deeper into potential jail time. :)

And there are different levels of a crime, if even considering something a crime.

Yes, and according to most laws, by Roxxie slapping Kris, she committed the crime of misdemeanor assault which can get her 12 months in jail. Disney, should not have shown it because it promotes the stereotypes that a male should have no issues or comfort or protection of the law, if he is assaulted by a woman.

In most of the both of your responses all come down to that not only should a male take the assault but should feel ashamed to report it. Is this what you want for our sons, to have society say that they should be ashamed to report abuse?

It's just a slap. It's not worth any jail time period or even the police.

That is according to you. There was at one time when correcting a woman's behavior by slapping her was not worthy of jail time or a call to the police. Times have changed but does that mean that now assaults on our young and old males should not get the same protection of the law?

That doesn't shred anything. Those girls were just being bullies.

Hmm... As pointed out... Roxxie was promoting Kris and when he upset her she decided to “correct” his behavior with a slap across the face. Seems that if a employer who holds power over you decides that they can openly slap you ….. sounds like Roxxie could be considered a “bully” as well.

….overpowering the girl and doing more harm comes at stake here.

So, if you go and say... punch Mike Tyson … he could clearly knock you into next week.... Say he calls the police …. do you feel the police will accept your argument that because Mike Tyson is bigger, stronger, and a professionally fighter … you should not be arrested and Mike Tyson is silly for calling them?

Heck,.... check out this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-hmcnlmrQ

Think you could take her in a boxing match? :)

All kidding aside. You and Holo, are trying to go against mantra, that justice is supposed to be blind and that all of us are to be treated equally. That is a dangerous state that we are supposed to be fighting against.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

It's still just a silly thing to have some one arrested for. A slap is a MINOR ASSAULT.

It is then for you to realize that what some of us might be silly, to another it might be very serious. For the parent of a child who was slapped by his girlfriend or her boyfriend, they can and do very often see it differently. Some would simply say that it is “nipping” it in the bud and going on record of the abuse. Even the most conservative of victims rights groups will state that domestic violence does not start with brutal hemorrhaging beating. It often starts small. A verbal insult and then a slap. With society on a rampage about domestic violence with our youth, arrest for these types of crimes, do happen.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SLAPPING HERE. BEATING SOME ONE UP IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MANNER. MIKE WOULD NOT CALL THE POLICE JUST BECAUSE I PUNCHED HIM.

Ahh... It was you who attempted to bring up the “overpowering” aspect, so to help you I just “tweaked” it a bit to prove a point. While I do not know you, I feel safe to say that a person such as Mike Tyson would be more so “overpowering” to you and myself as a teenage boy to a ...how did one of you put it “fragile” girl.

I see the best counter you can come up with is to assume the actions of Mike Tyson. You sound so very sure of knowing what others will do. Let us see. You state what parent's will do if their child was slapped. You then state what the police will do if you report a misdemeanor assault. And now, your assumptions are that you know what Mike Tyson would do. Is this an Xmen type of power you have Huntley? While, you might not take your son to the police to report an assault by his girlfriend, there are parents that are doing so everyday. What will your answer be if it escalates? If your son is injured greatly the following week.... Since you feel it is silly, will you have your son mention the first misdemeanor assault or withhold that?

See, now you put yourself in “check”. If you do not mention the first assault, then you could be in legal trouble as well for not reporting a crime upon your child to the authorities.

Yeah, this conversation between us is going absolutely nowhere. I think I'm about to be done talking with you.

Why, did you expect one of us to say we were wrong. Wait, I did get you to at least, admit it is a crime of assault. To me, the conversation is going my way and you are saying what I want you to say, so it is not “going nowhere”.. its moving along very nicely. :)

PS. Apologies for grouping the responses.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

I don't know how many times I have to say it but a slap is not something WORTH ARRESTED FOR. No one except for you is likely going to call the police over some one slapping you.

My Brother, you keep offering what you feel will be the actions of others. What I am putting forward is the Law, plain and simple. This is why your argument is an argument of emotions and not one of facts. Your attempt to argue slaps vs punches does not matter. The Law says unwanted “contact”. That means, a punch, a kick, a shove, a slap, and guess what … even if you spit on someone, it is all against the law Huntley.

You claim that no one except me is likely to call the police. Think of this, … I would call the police, something tells me that a parent of a child that was hit by a boyfriend or girlfriend will do the same thing. If only to stop such actions or to begin documentation on such behavior.

I wouldn't call the police over him slapping me when I can easily slap him back.

Easily huh? Something tells me you have never been slapped before, and I doubt if you have been slapped by a professional fighter. I think a slap by a Heavy Weight fighter, will not be a soft hit. I think a slap in anger by Tyson will put you, me or most folks to the ground. Maybe even take a few teeth with it.

Are you forgetting we are talking about a SLAP here? Why do you keep going into the beat down level? That's completely different.

According to the Law they are not:

Misdemeanor assault, also referred to as a simple assault, generally means an act of violence against another person but can actually include any physical contact made without consent.

Huntley, you can say that they are different but your opinions fall flat against the Law and the states “any physical contact”. Try this, the setting of this film was in Georgia. This is from http://www.womenslaw.org where it would be listed as "16-5-23. Simple battery"

(a) A person commits the offense of simple battery when he or she either:

(1) Intentionally makes physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature with the person of another

Notice it says “he or she”. See this is the blind and equal justice that you keep smashing your head against failing to make a dent.

It's going nowhere because you keep saying how a slap is a police worthy crime when it's not and keep bringing up a person getting beaten up when that's a whole different level from what this discussion is about.

Again it is going along quite well, for me. All you are offering is what you feel should be done or what you feel others will do. I just can stand on the law. If Cyrus ...thanks for the correction of which child was slapped :) … If he wanted to call the police at that point and have her arrested for the charge of misdemeanor assault. The police, have no choice but to arrest her.

Sorry Brother... but it is happening to both males and now females every day. Sometimes for protection and sometimes just for spite. Your emotions that what you “feel” is how folks should react is noble but unless you are going to challenge the law, you have no argument when faced with the Laws of our society.

It will always be ...Roxxie did something that was a crime and Disney was wrong for showing her actions as acceptable behavior.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

It was just a simple little assault on Roxanne's part she may have gone far doing but Cyrus didn't take any notice of it and certainly wasn't going to call the police over it.

They were acting a script that Disney approved. Which I feel is a problem because it is reinforcing a double standard. We live in a age where child advocates are quick to tell young men that no one has the right to hit anyone. Notice they did not say no “male” ...they say no one has the right to assault another. I even cut and pasted a “quote” from a women's abuse organizations websites.

When they define assault as any person and then the laws define assault equally to both genders, you are arguing that both are wrong or being silly. More insulting to victims is that you classify such assaults in your mind as “silly”.

, but not drag the police into it unless bruises from a beating took place.

Now, it is bruising that must take place? Brother, does the law say that? Do victims rights groups say that. There was a time in the 20s or 30s where the sheriff would come around and dismiss a girl's charge because the boyfriend did not leave a “mark”. Are you saying that the police should go back to those days, where it is only abuse or assault if there is a mark?

Roxanne crying of being slapped by Cyrus shows the difference of how male on female slapping is different from female to male slapping. Guys can take it from a girl because they're tougher whereas girls have more emotion and are fragile like Poweranimals said.

Hmm... Guys can take it huh? Wow, you are right out of the old days. I have posted boxing videos of girls, I have posted links that report that girls are just as violent and in most parts shatter your “fragile” argument. I then give you a link that shows the dramatic rise of young female prison populations. Two “fragile” girls beat up and dragged a transgendered person through a McDonalds dining area by his hair. In a McDonalds in New York a girl slapped a guy and proceeded to climb over the counter to beat him.

Also, Roxie was not crying when she slapped Cyrus and her statement was to growl “did you feel that!”. Sounds like Ike Turner emotions were on display.

You are again going on your personal emotions, where the Laws of the land are clear. It does not say fragile it say that we as a society have declared that if you hit someone you are guilty of a crime.

I will even go to this. I am sure you know of a few girls that could handle themselves well in a fight with a male. Say they were equal sizes Huntley. Same size and build... would you then accept the law?

No one is going to protest Disney over a little misdemeanor on Roxanne's part. It's just a movie that's not meant to be taken seriously.

Maybe not, but should folks remain silent when the rest are brainwashed to say nothing? How many Rights figures and advocates were more told by members of their own community that things will never change?

Also, just a movie? I recommend for you a movie called “Birth of a Nation” and then decided on your last statement.

You see what this scene, of Roxxie slapping Cyrus, is risking telling girls that it is ok to slap a boy, like they did in the old Dallas TV show days. That a boy might be too ashamed or would brush it off if he gets hit. In turn it gives girls the green light to continue this behavior and when the police are arresting them for assault it is them who loses.

Even if you continue to hold on to the “girls are fragile” myth, should you not agree that the message in a movie aimed at children should not be that there will be no consequences for breaking the law?

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

To you as well. It has been an honor.

[–] holographica 12 years ago

I agree with many of your points, huntley. They are reasonable.

lost boy, dude, I know this is a mean thing to say...but with your logic, we should all be in jail for some reason or another.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

Wow Huntley, I thought it was over. I guess not.

I think almost all of us are baffled by your exaggeration of this situation, the evidence, the law, and the overall implications.

Holo, I am not one for quick hit and run flame wars. Huntley and yourself were speaking from emotions. Most of the time Huntley was playing mind reader and telling us what the police would do, what the parents of children assaulted would do and he even declared what Mike Tyson would do. All I had to do is show him the law. I even went to show him the law of the state of Georgia, where the film is set. Is this wrong for me to correct or challenge his view by showing him facts and even quotes from domestic violence groups?

The law is clear and Disney was wrong.

lost boy, dude, I know this is a mean thing to say...but with your logic, we should all be in jail for some reason or another.

Do not worry, I do not take this as a wrong thing but continuing with the logic of you and Huntley, to continue the double standards, is wrong. I will even re-address it as it is sending the wrong message to our young girls that if they hit a boy that nothing will happen to them. Then when the boy or his parents do go to the police or the school...and they act on it then we have another girl in legal trouble. And as I pointed out, the young female prison population is increasing. Maybe it is as simple as if you raise up a child to believe that there are no consequences for her actions, she will believe it to be so.

Thank you. Too bad I couldn't get through to Lostboy.

You couldn't get past the letter of the law. Until then, your points are based completely on stereotypes and emotions.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

As far as I'm concern, I don't know anyone else who feels the same way you do or feel the need to call the police and press charges over being slapped.

Yet, it is happening to mostly males and now a growing number of females. It is not a regular thing but it is growing. Like I said, for some it is for protection. For others, it might be just for spiteful revenge. The young female prison population is growing so, again its facts on my side where as you are standing on emotions.

Even being just scratched a little isn't worth that. Slapping, scratching, name-calling, a single push and kick are very little assaults that people can handle amongst themselves.

The age you speak of are the feelings that get folks, sadly killed. Little assaults do tend to lead to major assaults. Parents are starting to understand that somethings can be handled but sometimes they can not. You are speaking of a crime. If someone stole your car stereo or broke into your house and stole a expensive TV or jewelry and you discovered who it was... would you also want to “handle” it amongst the criminal and yourself?

Just think about it my brother. If someone vandalized our vehicles.. most of us would call the police. Even big Mike Tyson. So, if we are willing to get the police involved for theft or damage of our property you feel that people would not call the police for a crime committed upon their son or daughter?

I'm certainly not going to run up to a police officer I see on the street just to tell him some one slapped me

But, if I hit your car or kicked over your bike, I wonder would you then go running to a police officer but for your child you would not. Interesting. If a crime committed against a person can reach into the “silly” range, then how could a crime against property be of higher importance?

Think of it this way... You are a Police Officer. Two people come running up to you. One is a guy that says that someone smashed his car window and stole his GPS and Stereo. Another is a Father that says that he has child in the car and his girlfriend or her boyfriend assaulted him or her. Which crime would the police officer feel would take precedence? The GPS or the Father with the child?

See, in you line of reasoning you stated that the assault on a child is a “silly”or “minor” assault. In that case the theft from vehicle ...which we know that folks contact the police all of the time, would rank more important than the assault on the child.

You try it and see where it gets you.

It will get you far because that police officer knows that if it escalates into something bigger then his neck and career will be on the chopping block. Victims Rights groups will be out for blood. If it is a teacher then they can kiss their certification goodbye.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] holographica 12 years ago

Holo, I am not one for quick hit and run flame wars. Huntley and yourself were speaking from emotions.

Good, I'm glad you don't buy into flame wars. That's mature. I can only speak on behalf of myself...but comparing me to you, you're the one speaking more dominantly from emotions. You seem like a man of honorable intention, but your logic is quite flawed. Application of the law and outcome surrounding punishment is heavily based on circumstance in addition to objective criteria. It's practical and reasonable. Let's focus on what the movie showed us.

Also, please respond to my posts directly so I get an email notification.

Edit: What do you feel about this scene from the movie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_x2D_wSTgQ

[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

That's mature. I can only speak on behalf of myself...but comparing me to you, you're the one speaking more dominantly from emotions.

I would disagree when I am the one who is posting the law and the views from domestic violence support groups. With all respect, I have only received post of what people feel others would do. I could even list the posting of girls as “Fragile” without the modifier of “some.” All I have done is quote law and its application. I am afraid that emotional post are not coming from my side.

Application of the law and outcome surrounding punishment is heavily based on circumstance in addition to objective criteria.

I have not really argued punishment. I have just stated that it is a crime and as being such it is unbelievable to think that a law enforcement officer... who could be held liable... would dismiss a parent who comes to report a assault upon their child.

This is why I challenged Huntley to wager since people are quick to call the police to report theft or destruction of property, why does he feel that folks will not report if their son or daughter are assaulted.

Let's focus on what the movie showed us.

On multiple post I have referenced the movie. I have also made comparisons to make my points. Most of which, the only answers I have seen are its a silly crime, its a minor assault and “come on”.

What do you feel about this scene from the movie

To be honest, I think that I am tired of Disney preaching on public service commercials about finding other ways to settle problems and then showing two young African American males resorting to “thug” mentality.

Check out the show “Jessie”... who is the most “ready to fight” on that show? The little African American girl. I guess the image of “fragile girls”, is not a image that Disney desires to present of black girls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_t5CzkGogM

Well there is ANT Farm.... but I guess a African American kid could not be presented as an science or a math and based genus …. but she can fit the stereotypical image that we African Americans do sing and dance well.

But, I guess you are looking for if Kris should be arrested since he did make the first contact. If Cyrus had of not responded, yep.... Kris could have been charged by Georgia law with assault. If I am correct, if both parties fight, they could have both been charged.

What, I believe you and with respect Huntley, who it has been a honor to debate, do not understand is that I am not saying what I would do but what the law said could be done to Roxie and to Kris if Cyrus ….. who is the punching bag in this film.... decided to say, I will let the law sort this out. The next thing we have are another two young African Americans or just two young people that are now “in the system”. Two more that when they fill out job applications unless their records are sealed would have to say ..yes, I have a criminal record. On that, I wish Disney would have excluded the examples of violence that has been stereotyped about our people.

[–] holographica 12 years ago

I would disagree when I am the one who is posting the law and the views from domestic violence support groups. With all respect, I have only received post of what people feel others would do. I could even list the posting of girls as “Fragile” without the modifier of “some.” All I have done is quote law and its application. I am afraid that emotional post are not coming from my side.

Perhaps it might be more fair if an objective outsider made the call.

I have not really argued punishment.

Jail.

I have just stated that it is a crime and as being such it is unbelievable to think that a law enforcement officer... who could be held liable... would dismiss a parent who comes to report a assault upon their child.

A parent did not hit a child in “Let it Shine.”

This is why I challenged Huntley to wager since people are quick to call the police to report theft or destruction of property, why does he feel that folks will not report if their son or daughter are assaulted.

I'm not interested in getting involved in your debate with him. I should not have commented between you two. I'm sorry.

To be honest, I think that I am tired of Disney preaching on public service commercials about finding other ways to settle problems and then showing two young African American males resorting to “thug” mentality.

You're right, modern TV does often resort to the stereotypical roles for minorities. The thing about this scene in “Let it Shine” though is they showed a stereotype, then showed the other side. Not all African-Americans condoned the violence, the gentleman that broke it up made that pretty clear. Even Kris and Cyrus learned it was silly. They ended up having each other’s back.

Check out the show “Jessie”... who is the most “ready to fight” on that show? The little African American girl. I guess the image of “fragile girls”, is not a image that Disney desires to present of black girls.

I've seen that. The show doesn't bother me. At least since they stereotype, they do it for everybody.

Well there is ANT Farm.... but I guess a African American kid could not be presented as an science or a math and based genus …. but she can fit the stereotypical image that we African Americans do sing and dance well.

Is this an issue of stereotype? Disney now especially expects the lead star of their shows to sing. China Anne was cast as their lead, and she is debatably the most sensible character on the show.

Dancing is not a specific part of the show btw, but Chyna Parks is also a prodigy at playing many musical instruments like the violin.

Have you seen “Shake it Up?” Look at Zendaya's character.

But, I guess you are looking for if Kris should be arrested since he did make the first contact. If Cyrus had of not responded, yep.... Kris could have been charged by Georgia law with assault. If I am correct, if both parties fight, they could have both been charged.

I'm not looking for anything like that. I thought the club owner gentleman handled it well for what it was and we especially know this because the outcome ended up ideal by the end of the film.

On multiple post I have referenced the movie. I have also made comparisons to make my points. Most of which, the only answers I have seen are its a silly crime, its a minor assault and “come on”.

I did not see you judge based only on the situation at hand and the evidence presented to us in the film.

the only answers I have seen are its a silly crime, its a minor assault

I never said either.

On that, I wish Disney would have excluded the examples of violence that has been stereotyped about our people.

I understand. I would like this community get a fair chance to be perceived for all their many positive contributions to society. I will be honest, the scenes of violence did not jump out at me when I watched the film. I found them very short and not focused on.

Thus, I’m a little surprised you noticed it so much, but do you think you might have watched this movie with a critical eye for the stereotyping?

I personally was more struck by the themes of forgiveness, faith, class, and depth in rap music.

[–] holographica 12 years ago

Edit:

I think almost all of us are baffled by your exaggeration of this situation, the evidence, the law, and the overall implications.

[–] Poweranimals 12 years ago

Fragile...are you kidding? So lets look at it this way. I am a African American male, and say a smaller Asian male kicks me in the head.... he is smaller than me in size and weight.... Since society feels that I am supposed to be “stereotypically” more prone to fighting and violence.... should the law work against me if I call the police?

You see your “bottom line” is what society stereotypes us into. Especially, in some cases us as African American males. This is why the symbol of justice are scales and a lady blindfolded. It is also why the young female prison population is growing. The image of the weak and fragile girl is gone and thankfully dying.

Try this, Poweranimal … check out the video of the girls in Baltimore who beat up the transgendered girl at the McDonalds. You can find it on Youtube. The ages are in the late teens just a bit older than this cast.

I think you're talking what I said out of context. There obviously comes a point when something is taken too far. As far as the video you're referencing, I don't need to see it, because there's a difference between a girl slapping a guy and a group of girls ganging up on one person and beating the heck out them.

"Has anyone seen my bucket of plutonium? It's about yay big and is super radioactive."

[–] holographica 12 years ago

A crime is still a crime guys. If you base justice on societal stereotypes then we are back into the 40s and 50s.

And there are different levels of a crime, if even considering something a crime.

For example, a similar case could be treated differently depending on if death was involved or if the violation was repeated on multiple offenses or if an act was done in self-defense.

[–] holographica 12 years ago

Is this a discrepancy you would passionately speak up about and find genuine issue with? Because from your original post, it honestly sounds like you want equality here just for the sake of getting even with womens rights group or something.

[–] lostboys-2 12 years ago

it honestly sounds like you want equality here just for the sake of getting even with womens rights group or something.

No, its not a get "even with" desire. It is just looking for equality in the application of the law. When a network shows public service commercials to address bullying and other childhood violence, shows a movie where one teen slaps another teen, it is just hypocrisy.

[–] holographica 12 years ago

Okay. What you're talking about now is different from your original post. Trying to bridge the gap... In general, is it hypocrisy specifically of the network or of society? If there was an uprising against a hypothetical Cyrus slapping Roxxie, it would be viewers uprising and the network taking the heat.

Secondly, this would not be a case of bullying. Bullying would be Brandon Mychal Smith's character over Cyrus.

[–] holographica 12 years ago

I don't understand why you're bringing up the law when Cyrus did not clearly show signs of serious violation or sustained injury from that single slap as far as we know.

Had either or both been the case, you have a point, but turning this around, couldn't Roxxie consider his behavior harassment? Faking a professional identity then following her towards her dressing room when she clearly didn't want that. Who's the aggressor then?

Just to be clear, I don't believe either was the case in this particular situation. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I don't think your point fits with the situation.

[–] drama27-1 12 years ago

I didn't even see a slap. I must of went to the bathroom or something. LOL!

[–] shani_dayo 8 years ago

Who cares? First off, this is a Disney movie, it's not like it actually took place in real life, there is no need to mix fantasy and reality. The writers probably only added in the slap for a more dramatic effect, and the sake of the plot. Of course Chris got backlash, because He beat Rhianna up and gave Her cuts, bruises, and a black eye! That's not acceptable in the least bit, and I find it ludicrous that you would defend Him in the first place, and would dump on a fictional character. The Chris brown incident happened years ago, and you were the one who brought it up in the first place. Obviously like you said, a girl slapping a boy isn't the same, because boys are stronger and can cause more damage, and truthfully it's not that big of a deal. A boy could simply block the girl's hand from hitting him, or hold Her back to stop Her from hitting Him, there is no need to hit Her back, because technically according to the legal definition that is excessive force. There is a difference between excessive force, and self-defense let's look at the definition shall we?

Self defense: The defense of one person's interest, especially through the use of physical force, which is permitted in certain cases as an answer to a charge or violent crime.

Excessive force: The term "excessive force" is not precisely defined; however, the use of force greater than that which a reasonable under the circumstances is generally considered to be excessive.

For a man to hit a women or injure Her in any way, would be considered excessive force, unless you were in a dire situation or She was abusing your child. Simply because a man is stronger than a women, if a women hits first there is no need for a man to hit back, being that He can more than likely easily subdue Her, or better yet walk away from the situation. Why try to fight someone weaker than you? even when you didn't instigate the fight physically?