MovieChat Forums > The Invisible War (2012) Discussion > This is what happens when women tag alon...

This is what happens when women tag along with the boys...

posted 12 years ago by al666940-3
37 replies | jump to latest

Seriously, WTF did you people think would happen?

Pretty much same reason why soldeirs are not allow to be deployed within US soil (Posse Commiatus I think), or patrol the street playing cops (got family in Mexico, they know first hand what's like to ahve soldiers playing cops, your civil rights don't count for s@#$ if you happen to be in the way)

And both are pretty much UNAVOIDABLE. I wish that was not the case, but that's the result of a soldier's training (nenesarry to win/sirvive a war) and the reality of war.

Soldiers are trained to kill, destroy, endure combat and impossible amounts of stress.

They are NOT trained, nor they should, to be "sensitive", "considerate", "PC" nor any otehr s#$% you can think of. Do that and kiss your army effectiveness goodbye if they ever need to get down and dirty up-close with the enemy.

Two more reasons:
- Throughout history, civilian women of the losing side have always been part of the spoils. Kinda ahrd to change that mentality in a few years of social engineering (just ask the Germans civilians who fell prey under the Red Army)
- A standing army will invariably attrack plenty of people with, how shall I put it, "questionable" character/morals, looking to play out their Rambo/Genghis Khan fantasies. There's a reason why the Romans (republic) were always against having standing armies after a conflict ended.

Women want to serve anyway? Then segregate the ranks by gender and all solved. I mean, for example, we do segregate boxers by gender don't we? Problem is, the enemy won't likely play along to make sure female soldiers encounter/fight female soldiers/terrorists/insurgents only.

[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

And your solution for ensuring male rape of soldiers by other soldiers doesn't happen would be?????? We're waiting.

And we're also waiting for you to explain why since soldiers are trained to kill and destroy THE ENEMY, they will instead destroy their own comrades who are serving with them. Hmmmmmmm? Or how about this? Do the soldiers rape the generals and commanding officers of higher rank? Or do they only do it to people of their own rank or lower? If they're trained to destroy, they're trained to take out the best along with the worst so if they're turning on their own kinds they ought to be making their leaders spread them too, shouldn't they?

[–] al666940-3 12 years ago

"And your solution for ensuring male rape of soldiers by other soldiers doesn't happen would be?????? We're waiting."

1.- Avoid having standing armies when no conflict requires them (look at Buffalo Soldiers, shows you exactly why standing armies with nothing to do is asking for trouble). If you worry about prepardness, have EVERYBODY go through basic military training when hitting 18 and done. Conflict arises, you draft and constitute the army right then and there.
2.- Screen candidates better, sicne meeting quotes caused to lower standards.

"And we're also waiting for you to explain why since soldiers are trained to kill and destroy THE ENEMY, they will instead destroy their own comrades who are serving with them. Hmmmmmmm?"

If they have not much to do, they WILL turn on each other in no time. Peace indeed is a solder's worst enemy, not war.

There will always be plenty of reasons to off your fellow soldiers (racial/culturals/religious/you name them), plus ranking officers you don't like (ever heard of fragging?). They happen to occur less if soldiers are busy with war (except fragging), and occur much more often if they're idle.

"Do the soldiers rape the generals and commanding officers of higher rank? Or do they only do it to people of their own rank or lower?"

Is that a serious question? May as well ask why Michael Douglas should be believed when he says he couldn't possibly sexually harass his lady boss Demi Moore.

You do realize sexual harrasment and rape are not about sex, but about POWER? Subordinates CANNOT do it, only equals (who for one or another reason do have leverage over their victims) or uppers.

Rape especially is about power and violence, not sex. You train young people to become violent killers, you better be ready for ALL consequences of such training/conditioning. Why you think NOBODY wants to live next to a US base overseas (unless you do business selling them food/booze/hookers)? Ask the japanese civilians.

[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

So you're saying the best solution is for a neverending war, because once you are a soldier, you may come home but you don't hang it up, it's a part of you for life, so to ensure soldiers don't turn on one another and rape one another, they have to spend the rest of their lives fighting a neverending battle by your logic.

[–] al666940-3 12 years ago

"So you're saying the best solution is for a neverending war"

Wrong, it's 2 fold:
1.- Disband the army after a conflict ends (thus soldiers cease being soldiers and become again civilians, and readapt to civilian life).
2.- Segregate the armed forces if women want to put themselves in danger so bad.

[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

1. Soldiers are never fully civilians again once they've been soldiers, that's been common knowledge for over 50 years, the war comes home with them and stays for the rest of their lives.

2. And how do you segregate the men from the other men to ensure THEY aren't raped? If you think it doesn't happen, then go join the army.

[–] al666940-3 12 years ago

"Soldiers are never fully civilians again once they've been soldiers, that's been common knowledge for over 50 years, the war comes home with them and stays for the rest of their lives."

Yeah, but that's another problem. It sure solves the "getting raped by the commanding officer and can't do dick about it".

"And how do you segregate the men from the other men to ensure THEY aren't raped?"

According to the film, the overwhelming issue is man on woman rape. I'm discussing THAT issue. Maybe the Army should recruit better to avoid so many rapists and psychos into the ranks. Even a stronger case for disbanding the army when not needed.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] al666940-3 12 years ago

"When the *beep* hits the fan, blood-thirsty rapey psychos is exactly who I'd want fighting for me"

Oh sure. But what do you with them once the conflict is over and they return home? They don't all die in the conflict you know. Yoy willing to be LIABLE for the civilians they hurt/rape/kill? If they're good enough to fight for you then they're good enough to keep around and protect them, right?

Can't have it both ways. If you raise/train killers you better accept the consequences that go with that.

[–] Grizzleberries 10 years ago

you just reminded me of the movie Dead Presidents with that post

[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

And when was the last time you bent over to get 'a little penis' from a guy twice your size?

[–] al666940-3 12 years ago

You're starting to come off as the Superbad fatty obsessed with dicks. If you want one so bad, there are places to go to and people a phone call away that will satiate your darkest/sickest urges, for a price.

[–] lukn4frnz 11 years ago

Did you miss the part of the movie where Cori's jaw is 'gone' and she is in constant pain sometimes and can't ingest solid food?

Her attacker smashed her face with his fist - going beyond "the 'trauma' of a little penis"

[–] supermishelle 11 years ago

I don't think you really watched the film because I specifically remember them saying that male on male rape happens more often then male on female rape simply because there are more men in the military than women.

[–] SipteaHighTea 12 years ago

That is why I don't trust soldiers being police officers because it is bad enough the police work causes people with no military experience to become cold, callous, no respect for people's rights, etc. You put ex-soldiers or reserve soldiers in police work, and many of them will continue to do the bad behavior that they did in the military and will continue to feel that they can get away with it and then they are always whining about getting sue in court for violating people's civil rights plus they are whining that they get no support let alone any kind of respect from the community and they end up with busted marriages and their kids don't want to have to do with them anymore. Like many soldiers, many cops committed suicide because when they retired, they lost all their power to bully people around and now the civilian population don't have to take gruff from them anymore.

[–] neimand 11 years ago

When I was in,we used to look upon the "girls"in the WACs as different.We were
separate and happy about it.We didn't want to be with them.

[–] Strazdamonas 11 years ago

A nation is msot effective during a time of war. this is a fact. now that fact does nto advocate war. having united enemy removes the inside conflicts, without it peopel bicker and fight eachother, and this lead toa ssesment of dominance, by any way they can. this is how human psychology works. thisi show soldiers are conditioned. the only way to avoid it is to have no army.

---------------------------------------------
Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] crashdummy35 9 years ago

Avoid having standing armies when no conflict requires them

Screen candidates better, sicne meeting quotes caused to lower standards.

I'm sorry , sir but, this is some of the dumbest *beep* I have ever read on these boards.

Have you ever served in the military? Ever taken a life? Ever seen, close up, someone you know well die a horrible ugly death? It takes mental toughness for all of that. Mental toughness you try and instill every day. Mental toughness you try and reinforce through war games and such. And, even all that is not always enough---that's why we get so many soldiers with PTSD. because we are only human. But we need soldiers to do "inhuman" things...because you sure as *beep* can't, sir.

The second one:
Yeah, let's go get our soldiers from *beep* Yale and Harvard and MIT. Great idea.

[–] peedur 12 years ago

Your psychology, history and apology for rapists is bogus.
You're frankly part of the problem. What makes people rape is not some inherent part of military culture, it's something inherent in ALL immature male groups from cultures which don't value gender equality and refuse to question culturally-based male sexual entitlement. Rape is always about power and dominance, not about sexuality.

If you believe any of the idiocy you write, then as a soldier, when you're confronted by a woman being sexually assaulted by a fellow soldier, or by a group of soldiers, you'd advocate either walking away, or watching? I'm sure you believe that you wouldn't participate, but your laissez-faire attitude seems to permit even that.

Change takes action from individuals. Stop being a smart-a$$ and try to be a participant in change instead of waiting for others to make it happen. Get passionate about changing the culture which encourages this kind of criminal behavior. Otherwise you just sound like a self-polishing dick.

[–] al666940-3 12 years ago

"apology for rapists is bogus"

BS, where did I apologize for rapists? Unless you think being aware of present dangers is being for them. I sure don't allow my daughter to dance down an inner city guetto street in a bikini, unless she's asking for trouble. Doesn't mean I condone/approve the danger, but realistically speaking I can't change that however she CAN change her wardrobe or route at least.

I sure don't carry jewelry when in dangerous/poor places. Instead of whining about my right to wear what I want when I want, I simply am realistic and play it smart.

"What makes people rape is not some inherent part of military culture, it's something inherent in ALL immature male groups from cultures which don't value gender equality and refuse to question culturally-based male sexual entitlement"

You do realize you're contradicting yourself? Where do you think military culture ultimately comes from? It doesn't come from female play nice values (say Minoan period, google it) but from male agressiopn and need to dominate (say Mycenaean period), and military domination is rooted in sexual domination (according to freakboy Freud).

So military culture DOES have to do with sexual domination, overt or covert. They don't teach the recruits to tell their rifles from their guns for no reason...

"when you're confronted by a woman being sexually assaulted by a fellow soldier"

Depends, is the woman herself a fellow solder and this happens under SERE training? If not I would help her (and of course risk being killed or court martialed).

"Change takes action from individuals"

Aha, but not all change is for the better. My change would be NOT to have standing armies and let women who want to serve so bad serve in segregated units in national guard duties only (even free speech right is not absolute, so women better learn to compromise). That solves both problems.

[–] DYouKnowWhatIMean 12 years ago

I have been following this conversation and one thing has become very clear. Your "solution" is avoidance. This is not a solution, this is an easy way out. I also find it ironic that you are a soldier and are looking to avoid conflict.
A solution would be to train soldiers in a civilized fashion. NO RAPE. Imbed that idea into their skulls.
Your daughter probably shouldn't wear a bikini and walk down a street known for its violent crimes, but the point is she shouldn't have to avoid that street. She should be able to walk down any street she pleases without the risk of being raped.

Yes it does seem to be in our nature, especially in stressful situations to commit the most terrible acts against other human beings of BOTH genders, but we CAN change that if we commit to the idea of not doing it. Segregation does not work.

"Death! Delicious strawberry flavored death!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBB0PGt3Syo

[–] Emiliyaa 11 years ago

This documentary fvckin infuriates me

http://yfrog.com/jcannagj
You talk so much yet have so little to say..

[–] kathleen_olivieri 11 years ago

your post is excellent evidence that we, in the United States have been brainwashed by patriachy.

You are blaming the victim by stating that "females should segregated from men in the military" and "what do you people expect?" or better yet, what not go the step further and write, "what do female soldiers expect"?, am I right?

Wanna know how to stop men from raping???? you tell the MEN, do not rape! You do not tell women to not wear makeup, or do not wear provocative clothing, or don't go places alone. You hold the perpetrators accountable, not the victims.

Your post reinforces rape supported myths that are ubiquitous in our society- she wanted it, she asked for it, boys will be boys, it's natural because men are animals, etc.

So, I thank you for your post. Because if anyone has a question whether misogyny exists today in our culture, your post is a prime example that is very much alive and well.

[–] GreyCadillacs 11 years ago

I expect people to have just a little bit of effing self control, that's what I expect. Cripes what a stupid post.

[–] sebberskyld 11 years ago

You are a disgusting, horrible human being. You cannot blame the VICTIM of this situation.

[–] completelyrandomguy 11 years ago

... That escalated quickly.

[–] rudykawa 11 years ago

The big picture should be, why defend an association, a group of people whose career purpose is to kill?
For me the problem is the humanity self-imposed need for army.
Everything else is consequence.

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

In other words, men are predators and rapists and women who are victims should be treated like they deserved it.

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

Interesting - not only are you a misogynist who thinks women get what they deserve, you're actually misandrist in the sense that you think men are perverts who have absolutely no control over what they do.

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.