Crap script
Come on, how csn lucas hear the director about a complain and dont react liko a cold idiot? Talk with his friend with no emotions? This is not a real behaviour.
shareCan you clarify what you mean?Its hard to understand.
shareIf he means that Lucas accepts passively his wrongful incrimination, then I agree. It's hard to believe that a man would show up at work one day, be sent home with the only explanation that "there's a problem with one of the children" and he just up and leaves, tail between legs, without DEMANDING an explanation. Makes Lucas seem a bit of a tard. Other than that, I like this film, it just relies a bit too much on the viewer taking for granted that Lucas' situation is hopeless from the beginning, which it was not, in a realistic scenario with real people. Spoiled the middle act a bit for me, but I enjoyed the final act very much, so I forgive Vinterberg for trying so boldly to manipulate my feelings.
shareAlso, what kind of kindergarten director would tell all children were sexually abused in a parents meeting? Based on what exactly?
I have just watched the film for the second time and I couldn't enjoy it as much as in the first time because of these "little things".
I wouldn't call it a crap script though. This is a decent film with a great performance.
Vinterberg read several actual cases similar to this,so the script isnt pulled out of thin air completely.To what extent,hard to know.Also,people are different,so the idea that there would someone who would behave like Lucas isnt completely crazy.
shareNot completely crazy for sure. I'm not denying altogether that such a weakling can exist. Just saying that I have little sympathy for him, that his weakness and stupidity are as much the cause of his troubles as the townfolk's bigotry, and that 99% of the people I know would have sorted it all out in one day and cleared their name. After all it's not like he was in a police station with cops all around him trying to coerce a confession out of him. Show me THAT, and I'll buy it. But in this film, all he had to do was stand up for himself with his boss, who's shown as an old lady who looks anything but intimidating.
Sorry, but that ruins the whole show for me. It could have been a great film, but it just isn't, no matter what imdb score it reaches.
I dont see how him standing up to the old lady,would have automatically cleared him from the charges,thats not what automatically happens even in real lifeAlso at that point he doesnt even seem to know completely what hes accused of and seems to be quite confused about it all.
The movie is about the witch-hunt of an innocent man,so obviously he wasnt going to sort it all out in a day as you suggest.How would that have made it a great film?
Too bad it ruined the film for you.
Please, don't be fatuous. Makes you sound like one of those who'll ignore/deny or find a way around any flaws just to defend his favourite movie. Leave that to Batman fanoboys.
Him standing up for himself could (and possibly would) have cleared him up of all charges on that same day. All he had to do was refuse to leave and demand to know what he was accused of. Upon hearing the ridiculous charges, if he'd been a normal person, he'd have called his friends (the stupid lying kid's parents) and demanded they had a sit down to clarify the situation with the kid, and forcing her to tell the truth, blowing away the ridiculous accusations. There's really a fair chance that the situation could have been solved that very same day. The little one was out there in the school yard, all he had to do was fight for his right to tell the truth.
And even if it didn't work, he'd have had the chance to speak out in front of all interested parties and most likely prevent the witchhunt that was about to unfold behind his back while he was sitting at home like the dummy he was.
Lucas as depicted in the film is just way dumber than the average person.
I'm amazed that anyone can identify with him enough to care.
Even if most people wouldnt behave the way Lucas did,doesnt mean its a flaw.If that made you not care for the main character and ruined the film for you,so be it.
I enjoyed the places the film ended up going dramatically,even if it was because of not handling the situation in the best way.
Didn't call it a flaw. Just compared your answer to that of a fanboy denying flaws in his favourite film. And I'll do it again.
shareYes,very rude of you.
shareSorry. That WAS rude. I take it back.
But I still disagree that Lucas not fighting back from the get go made the film better. I think it weakened it.
Im not saying it made it better,just that i can enjoy the film as it is also.
The lack of another version with different chain of events doesnt ruin it for me.
Well, fair enough.
I guess I'm more picky on movie characters when it comes to rooting for them.
Another example would be Chris McCandless from Into The Wild. A hero to most, a delusional, semi-suicidal idiot to me.
It all comes down to how the viewer can emphasize with the characters, and I can't emphasize with stupid.
Him standing up for himself could (and possibly would) have cleared him up of all charges on that same day. All he had to do was refuse to leave and demand to know what he was accused of. Upon hearing the ridiculous charges, if he'd been a normal person, he'd have called his friends (the stupid lying kid's parents) and demanded they had a sit down to clarify the situation with the kid, and forcing her to tell the truth, blowing away the ridiculous accusations. There's really a fair chance that the situation could have been solved that very same day. The little one was out there in the school yard, all he had to do was fight for his right to tell the truth.
And even if it didn't work, he'd have had the chance to speak out in front of all interested parties and most likely prevent the witchhunt that was about to unfold behind his back while he was sitting at home like the dummy he was.
Lucas as depicted in the film is just way dumber than the average person.
I'm amazed that anyone can identify with him enough to care.
I didn't particularly like the film, but what you're saying here is more of a fantasy than what occurred in the movie.
All of what you just said could just as easily (and probably more likely) be interpreted as him intimidating a little girl into retracting. In fact he did try that tact and it didn't work b/c the dad decided he had to believe his daughter even though he was probably 99% sure it wasn't true.
In a small town, filled with small minds, where people actually believed kids always tell the truth (especially about stuff that scares them) meant that once the accusation was made to the school women his fate was sealed.
share
I'm not saying that he had to jump on the little girl with both feet, just ask her to tell him what he told the others. She would have IMMEDIATELY said the truth, that she was lying.
shareJust saying that I have little sympathy for him, that his weakness and stupidity are as much the cause of his troubles as the townfolk's bigotry, and that 99% of the people I know would have sorted it all out in one day and cleared their name.
As much a cause of his troubles? That's like blaming a girl for being raped because she was wearing a miniskirt. share
Yeah, right. And what you just did is comparing a little girl who tells lies to a rapist. Are you stupid for real or are you just trying to be the town's clown here?
shareNo, I'm far smarter than you actually. I'm comparing the actions of the community to that of a rapist. He was a victim, and you're victim-blaming.
shareReally. A genius.
And tell me, please, in which way Lucas' passive behaviour while being accused of rape compares to that of a girl wearing sexy clothing who gets raped? I'd like to see the link there, since you're so smart.
Or you can simply admit that yours was a totally misplaced comparison which adds nothing but confusion to the conversation. Perhaps you should step off and try sounding smart on the "Idiocracy" message boards instead.
I would argue that acting aggressively or passionately trying to deny these kinds of accusation does not guarantee any difference. With people's tendency to jump into conclusions, like the OP of this thread and you did, Lucas was screwed from the start.
What would YOU do if you were in his situation? Do you really think people would perceive you the way you expect them to?
I refuse to believe that I have to explain this again. I already explained it in full detail.
So, either you have trouble understanding the English language, or you read just a few lines off my comments and "jumped to conclusions like most people do" and like you now accuse the OP and myself of doing. Which is pretty irresponsible, if you ask me, because we both watched the film in its entirety, so we aren't just "jumping to conclusions" now, are we?
Go through the thread again, try to retain what you read this time, and see how redundant and inaccurate your comment truly is.
The kindergarten director was adamant that she wasn't going to tell the identity of the child. Do you really think Lucas demanding her to do that would result into exactly how you pictured it in your mind? Life doesn't always go according to your visions. In fact, it almost never does.
Most of the time, people acting calm like Lucas would have a better chance in getting the trust and sympathy from others. He didn't do anything wrong, that's why he was calm about it. There's nothing wrong with how he reacted or responded to the director's accusation.
What I don't agree is you thinking that you are smarter than him in handling such situation. Arrogance is a sign of ignorance.
Also, Lucas did have a talk with Theo (Klara's father) about the accusation. He refused to believe him. So your point was invalid. Even if Lucas was given a complete information of his accuser on that day, and somehow made Klara admit that she was lying, they'd still think that she only says things out of fear. Lucas will still end up in the same situation, maybe even worse.
If you had actually seen the whole film, you'd know that Klara did tell her parents that she said some foolish things and that Lucas didn't do anything. Twice!
Here's some real life facts to enlighten you:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/innocent-teachers-increasingly-quitting-their-jobs-over-false-accusations-by-pupils-10142314.html
Another redundant, compleyely off-mark comment which "enlightened" jack-$hit. Now I'm starting to question you intelligence now.
But I have no time for it. I'm enjoying some great music at the present moment. I'll put you on ignore mode instead, so your misguided use of the message board will no longer interfere with my life.
I'll conclude with some advice you're free not to take (your loss but, hey, it's your useless life): if you can't grasp the point of a discussion between adults (you can still read the comments I left above, if you still wonder what was being discussed), and if all you can offer is some off-the-point internet link and a bunch of stuff that's already been said, then don't even dare to join the conversation. You'll look smarter that way.
Another redundant, compleyely off-mark comment which "enlightened" jack-$hit. Now I'm starting to question you intelligence now.Utterly useless ad hominems without substance detected. Let me use this opportunity to demonstrate the irony of your statement. You misspelled the word "completely". Your lack of vocabulary forced you to use 'jack-dollar-sign-hit'. And it's "your intelligence" not "you intelligence".
Just because you failed to relate to how the character thinks, doesn't take away quality from the script.
if you can't grasp the point of a discussion between adultsI'm not the one who's lost their temper so quickly here. I'm still open to a healthy discussion. However, I do wish you enjoy your music. Good bye. share
Just to add some point in relation to the original discussion. Your behaviour right now, for example, really doesn't help with your argument. The same way that acting like this wouldn't have helped Lucas in his situation.
Of course my points still remain and your failure to counter them indicates your inability to deny the truth in what I said.
Why exactly are you avoiding discussion? Is it because you cannot accept reality could be much darker than you can imagine, thus you refuse to believe it?
You can try to logic things in your mind all you want, but you have failed to grasp the main concept of the film, which is man's hopelessness in the face of society. The individual that is alone before others, and is forced to stand alone in front of their judgments.
Throughout the whole film, the main character has to endure preconstructed judgements of others. There is no proof in this case, only impressions. You can plead innocent all you want, but who is going to believe you? It is their fear of how they see you as that makes them stronger. Demanding explanations and stomping your feet in headstrongness is only going to make things worse. People would believe that you are doing it because you are afraid. After all, only a guilty man would be afraid of being found guilty. Their preconstructed judgements would only be affirmed at this point, which would make changing their minds quite impossible.
He did all he could. He demanded an explanation politely, they didn't give it to him, he left without making things worse. A reasonable man knows he is innocent and that a fair trial will acquit him. Everything else from this point is society's judgements taking shape.
I avoid discussion with the other user because he has proved time and time again to be an ignorant moron.
You make very valid points, but they all rest on the basis that man is hopeless in the face of society, which I don't and never will agree with. Lucas is a freaking loser, and I don't symphathise with losers, unless I'm watching a light hearted comedy.
You have to realise that the mivie plays in a Danish context. Danes usually are not very confrontational, to me his reaction seems quite 'normal'. He stays calm and things things will sort out, because he's innocent. It's a very Danish behaviour :).
shareI can accept that, under normal circumstances. But we're talking possibile jail time and a permanent stain on his life here. It's way too naive to just wait for things to sort themselves out.
I don't know. I just don't buy it.
His behaviour is very scandinavic in general. People here are very introvert and shy away from every confrontation possible. The movie really gets acrosss the point of how much abuse a scandinavian man really endured as he goes back into the store and hits the clerk. People are different and cultures are different. You can't syphatize with him, because you can't for the world understand his reaction to the whole situation. But it's a very common behaviour in Finland, Sweden, Denmark etc. Just waiting for the bus here (Finland) people stand at least 10 feet away from each other, anything else is concidered rude.
shareSo this is what YOU, personally, would do too? If you show up at work, let's say at the hospital for argument's sake, and your superior sends you back home without warning and with the only explanation that there's a problem and you're involved, and that the police will be called, you just meekly go home with your tail between your legs? Really? When you know that you've done nothing wrong and that leaving will mean that you cannot prove your innocence? Please, do not exaggerate.
I live in the Netherlands, literally a few hours drive away from Denmark. People here might be more cold and distant than the place where I grew up, but they're not that dumb. No person with half a brain would just walk away when they:
- work with children
- hear that there's a problem with a child
- hear that they're believed to be involved
- hear that the police is being called
- are sent home with no other explanation
- know that they've done nothing
I could be a living icecube and still would not just up and leave. You'd have to remove me with a forklift. Same goes for anyone I know.
Maybe I'm just not acquainted with a whole lot of retards.