MovieChat Forums > Adoration (2013) Discussion > People don't understand that this movie ...

People don't understand that this movie is about...


The Relationship between Roz and Lil. Their sons are only an extension of their selves, so when Lil and Tom sleep together, it's like Roz says to Lil : I am giving myself to you. One forgets one's self for the other, regardless of consequences. The marvelous close-ups of their faces when they speak to each other serve as some kind of hommage to Bergman's Persona, which leaves no doubt about the message of the film. Mutual adoration between Lil and Roz. Very powerful. Loved it.

You're not a vegetarian, are you? I've never met a vegetarian I liked.

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You've nailed it. Spot on.

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Thank you for this. I really enjoyed this movie and felt like I shouldn't of but I really really did enjoy it so this definitely helps.

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Mutual adoration between Lil and Roz. Very powerful. Loved it.


So why didn't they just have sex with each other? It would have been a lot simpler, and their sons could have gotten on with their lives.








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Because they weren't lesbians. I sensed no sexual tension between them. I think both the book and the film made it quite clear that their love was 100% spiritual and intellectual.

By the way, just wanted to share a new discovery I made while rewatching the film and which makes me even more certain of my theory: the single-shot sequence where Lil pursues Roz on the beach is, without a doubt, a reference to the same scene taking place in Bergman's Persona. Such a poetic shot, in both movies.

The room's a wreck, but her napkin is folded.

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I love it -- a wonderful analysis of the movie. Not much more to be said about it.

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I agree. It made me think of Y Tu Mamá También.

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It also made me think of that film! I found the whole idea rather incestuous, that was my take. The women are like sisters, already like family. So including the sons would be tat as well.

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Actually I hadn't thought of that but now that you mention it I can see a few similarities.

Of course, the guys in Y Tu Mama Tambien grow up over the course of the movie. It's questionable whether Tom and Ian are any wiser at the end of the movie than they were at the beginning.

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But the women seem to have "grown" or at least changed in fundamental ways.

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I agree with most of this however I did get the sense that there really was a sexual attraction between Roz and Ian that had nothing to do with Lil.

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Just finished this.

Despite the sensual nature of the relationships between the sons and mothers (and let me tell you, as a guy, this is great fantasy) I felt like the entire film was basically a telling of the epic love story of Roz and Lil, with their children, and later even grandchildren, being used as further metaphors and extensions of that love.



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Absolutely, my friend.

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wow that just blew my mind, so their sons are like their metaphorical & spiritual genitalia ? very insightful.

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Are you being sarcastic?

Later that day, after tea... I died, suddenly.

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You made a perfectly sensible conjecture, to which I responded with an intuitive and understandable model to serve as its framework. Allow me to elaborate:

Let ~ denote the general emotional relation between two individuals in this movie. For all characters A and B that we are considering, ~ has the following characteristics:

1. Symmetric: A~B implies B~A
They all share mutual feeling. There was no rape.

2. Transitive: If A~B, B~C then A~C
This is your proposition.

3. Reflective: A~A
The sons are driven by their own desires and emotions, the mothers are less so but only due to the appeal of self-serving ethical superiority, not altruism ("they are so pleased with themselves"). In logical terms: if A~B, then B~A (by symmetry - property 1), together this means A~A (by property 3).

From these basic properties, the following deduction is possible:

Liz ~ Tom
~ \\\\ ~ => Liz ~ Roz and equivalently Tom ~ Ian.
Ian ~ Roz

You can see from the symmetry that the two sons also share the same connection their mothers do. Visualize this by a square like above. We can generalize this further: Ian and Tom's daughters would be the two new vertices and together they form an octahedron. It can be shown by induction into future generations that the space of ~ relation is a lattice with an octahedron as the unit cell.

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This post is truly a revelation.

Later that day, after tea... I died, suddenly.

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