MovieChat Forums > Night Moves (2014) Discussion > why do environmentalists not like dams?

why do environmentalists not like dams?


in other words, why do these 3 want to blow one up? what's the reason for it?

btw i haven't seen the movie so don't spoil anything

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Environmentalists don't like people, (especially those that don't think like they do), capitalism, free markets, liberty, etc. So it isn't necessarily dams they don't like. It's their perception of what the dam does or represents.

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They don't like it when people take The Lord's name in vain. No one has the authority to Damn anyone expect God Himself. They are saving souls. No damnimg of anyone. These environmentalists are saving souls when they are blowing up that dam.

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The RAF isn't fond of them either-see 'The Dambusters'1954...

'What is an Oprah?'-Teal'c.

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Hydroelectric dams are quite controversial because while they help to power communities, they also contribute to deforestation.
In the Night Moves's trailer you can see it

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/watch-the-revolution-begins-in- 1st-trailer-for-kelly-reichardts-night-moves-starring-dakota-fanning-j esse-eisenberg-20140321

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Maybe there is flooting because of rising water levels, but that's a small controlled area (relatively speaking), that's the only bad thing about dams.
A hydroelectric dam can easily replace a coalplant, that is much more devastating to the environment, not just because of GHGs, but also local watersupply (coalplants use a lot of water), which in the long run is much more devastating locally then a dam.
In my book, this movie allready sucks because they wanna blow up a dam, unless it's about some psycho kids that pretend to be environmentalists.

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HAHA! I liked that as much as Chril L's 'damning' interview. :)

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That from the point of view of someone that believes in God, but they may hurt people blowing up stuff, wouldn't be better to stop building something than destroying it? I don't see how justifying in the name of God is good reason to anything that hurts or destroy. That's inquisition

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Are you making an extended pun, a serious non sequitur, or just rambling. In any case: pretty goddamn weird!

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How are they saving souls by blowing up a dam? Taking lives, more like. Typical environmental claptrap.

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[deleted]

Generalizations never make for good arguments.

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"Generalizations never make for good arguments. "

Is it a generalization if it's 100% true?

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"100% true"? That is nonsense.

OK, here is something that is 100% true as well: conservatives are racist fascists who want nothing more than to establish a theocratic dictatorship. Meanwhile, environmentalists want to protect OUR, meaning the American people's, air and drinking water from the capitalist oligarchs who'd destroy it for their profit, as we see from all the pollution from business such as Koch Industries.

Prove me wrong.

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Meanwhile, environmentalists want to protect OUR, meaning the American people's[...]


Environmentalists exist outside your precious little country, you know. How about a global perspective from one of you septics - just once, FFS...

The Adventures of The Man With No Penis: http://tinyurl.com/8ezrkh

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[deleted]

I wonder if you are willfully ignorant. In case you are not, I will explain to you things I've learned over 10 years ago, but let me tell you that Google search is your friend. They don't "like" dams because when dams are built, they impact a large area and negatively affect the local environment. This is caused by the permanent flooding of the area, disturbing of the behavior of the animals, trapping of fishes and others animals inside the structure of the dam, etc. It's good that someone hates capitalism and infinite exponential growth of the economy, so that people like you don't have to breath toxic levels of carbon monoxide and eat pesticides for dinner. Go live in China and tell me how it feels like to live in a place where they don't give two *beep* about the environment.

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permanent flooding of the area, disturbing of the behavior of the animals, trapping of fishes and others animals inside the structure of the dam, etc.


Yeah but what is wrong with that? Yes it changes the environment, but so what? Instead of 10000 rabbits you'll have 10000 fishies instead, very simply speaking. It's not like natural occurrences change the environment all the time.

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In alignment to your argument .. Yes, it is probably environmentally harmful to build one...If they protested against building one, that would have been more appropriate. What's the point of destroying an already established one when it is essentially replacing fossil fuels?

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[deleted]

But... but... that's what the movie is about. The pointlessness. They even say it several times in the movie.

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Start with the destruction of salmon runs. Food security for thousands of people, gone.

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What a load of rubbish. You don't know the first thing about environmentalists, who are widely varied in their beliefs.

Fox News makes people like you into unthinking drones.

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The answer to the op's question has nothing to do with "not liking people". That's complete nonsense.

Dams disrupt a large portion of the surrounding ecosystem when they are built. They turn natural rivers into unnatural massive lakes almost overnight. The movie even shows the aftermath of the dam being built. Remember all those dead trees sitting in the lake as they drove past on the boat? That was damage the dam had done. That's just one good reason why dams aren't popular with many people.

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@American1

I'm gonna ago out on a limb here. You probably think Obama is a socialist (despite the fact that he has been way too friendly with big business or my tastes), don't you. Just a hunch.

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No, you're wrong. He's a divisive radical. He's not friendly to business, per se. It's more accurate to say he feeds his crony capitalist buddies.

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WRONG they just think that animals should have some liberties too. Including fishes, which are intelligent thinking beings.

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Because they're fanatical cultists who violently oppose all forms and representation of technoogy and science.

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[deleted]

A dam has a huge impact on a river and not just because you create a lake, wich is a completely different ecosystem. A dam is a barrier for animals and sediment (this can cause erosion down the river, unless you reinsert the material below the dam) and it influences the water level, and therefore the ecosystem, all the way down the river.

I'm not sure, though, if a small hydroelectric dam would be a natural target for eco terrorists. There is considerably worse.

Edit: Apparently it's about salmon: "kill salmon just so you can run your *beep* iPod every second of your life."

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^^LISTEN TO THIS GUY^^

That is the answer you're looking for, everyone else is just a bunch of morons. I am an environmentalist myself, but I don't see the point in destroying things that could potentially harm the environment more to either make a point or try to help the environment.

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They're not too keen on "Christ" or "Hell", either.

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I haven't found a compelling reason to be against hydroelectric energy.

There's some really vague argument about deforestation. I guess they fault the dam for making the area more available to logging operations, even though that's a separate issue entirely. There's also something about the water reservoir causing decomposition of the trees in the flooded area, but given a decade I seriously doubt the amount of vibrant plant life living in the reservoir wouldn't exceed what the previous forest provided, assuming there even was a forest there to begin with.

There are arguments about displacement of people, but look at the bigger picture: you're getting electricity and, more importantly, FLOOD CONTROL. This is a massive win for the population overall. Granted, you might be in a situation where some government unfairly compensates displaced people, but that is, again, a separate issue entirely. Fight corruption, not infrastructure.

Of course, there are claims that dams disrupt fish migratory paths and kill fish. However, fish ladders work very effectively to help fish upstream. The young fish, swimming back down to the sea, are actually small enough to slip through the turbine itself. They get knocked out temporarily by the immense pressure. At that point, the greatest risk is from invasive carp, hanging around downstream, waiting to gobble up the unconscious, easy prey.

My father has worked as a power plant operator for most of my life. I grew up around dams, talking to operators and National Forestry personnel. Hydroelectric is a fantastic source of quite green energy, and provides numerous societal benefits besides power, such as the aforementioned flood control and a location (the fish ladder) for fish studies which guide environmental decisions in order to benefit fish populations.

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I generally agree but:

- a lot smaller and older dams don't have fish ladders because no one cared at the time of the construction or because routing the water around the turbines would "cost" too much water/money. And these ladders work better with some animals than with others.

- while flood control is favorable to humans, it can change the river. Some ecosystems around the river have to be flooded sometimes or they will be lost.

Finding a viable compromise is hard and requires tight regulation or everything that can't be monetised will die.

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because as howard bloom says, these people are eco nihilists. The environment is their new religion and so they don't have a realistic understanding of it, or assessement of it, they aren't concerned with practical realities, which is why german greens can force the closures of nuclear power plants when that will just force them to rely on more carbon, and they just look at the example of france which gets most of its electrical power from nuclear and just ignore the facts they see, all the while wailing about climate change....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmKJW2Sfhi4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkOVfGudYWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AQ96NSrXM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnDpZot3ov8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdFczP76ZP4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFyzujd05ZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLqG7XEF3T0

Eco nihilists want a garden of eden, and don't understand how amoral and destructive nature is to herself, and how natural that state of self destruction is. Ice ages aren't a way for nature to preserve its self, its a cycle with no morality. And these people won't acknowledge that humanity is part of nature. So our changes to the environment are in fact natural. They don't understand that sometimes you have to sacrifice something to preserve other things, we have national forests, but we also have a whole lot of farmland to feed us, all that farmland could be natural habitat, but we have to use it for food, this is a necessary sacrifice, sometimes a dam is a good necessary sacrifice because its the one reliable source of base load green energy and can prevent natural disasters like floods.

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because as howard bloom says, these people are eco nihilists. The environment is their new religion and so they don't have a realistic understanding of it, or assessement of it, they aren't concerned with practical realities, which is why german greens can force the closures of nuclear power plants when that will just force them to rely on more carbon, and they just look at the example of france which gets most of its electrical power from nuclear and just ignore the facts they see, all the while wailing about climate change....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmKJW2Sfhi4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkOVfGudYWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AQ96NSrXM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnDpZot3ov8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdFczP76ZP4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFyzujd05ZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLqG7XEF3T0

Eco nihilists want a garden of eden, and don't understand how amoral and destructive nature is to herself, and how natural that state of self destruction is. Ice ages aren't a way for nature to preserve its self, its a cycle with no morality. And these people won't acknowledge that humanity is part of nature. So our changes to the environment are in fact natural. They don't understand that sometimes you have to sacrifice something to preserve other things, we have national forests, but we also have a whole lot of farmland to feed us, all that farmland could be natural habitat, but we have to use it for food, this is a necessary sacrifice, sometimes a dam is a good necessary sacrifice because its the one reliable source of base load green energy and can prevent natural disasters like floods.


can't agree more... the world is getting full of these annoying self righteous people who think they know everything ... they are just Eco-fascists that fell the need to impose their "new" way of living etc.
They think is "cool" being so much off the system and don't realize that they exist only because of it... they hate gas, right? Except when they need to use it to cross the world...the city and so on... hypocrisy , if you ask me

ps: did not watch the movie yet, but I saw other with the same "plot"... the "agenda" of this rich hollywood stars with "guilty conscience" if funny... I'm not allowed to speak of all them but I know I few there in US that are plain dumb ...and a lot "pseudo" star here in my country far worse...

btw: sorry for the poor english, but I felt like posting this, so tired of these people T_T

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[deleted]

Environmentalists often do like, or at least prefer, hydroelectric dams since they provide a cleaner form of energy. That is why the movie's premise is flat-out stupid.

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I sometimes think the Corp of Engineers won't stop until every creek in America has a dam. It keeps them employed. Meanwhile old dams, some made of earth and wood, are crumbling. They would be doing a better service fixing or replacing the old ones rather than building more new ones. Look what happened to New Orleans when the levees failed.

The same for the highway systems. Those huge double trailor rigs are ruining the highways with overweight trucks. How about repairing what we have rather than double decking highways in major cities for even more cars.


I don't know everything. Neither does anyone else

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Those huge double trailor rigs are ruining the highways with overweight trucks.
The rigs you speak of don't add any extra weight on the road. The weight is decided on by State law or rules and they go by the weight of each axle because it is that weight that puts the pressure on the roadway through the tires. So even if it was a triple trailer rig it wouldn't add an ounce more.

Also, are you aware that the road taxes that truckers pay provide almost all the maintenance fees on Interstate highways and part of the cost of city and county access roads? IOWs the users of the roads are paying for it and truckers pay a lot more than their fair share.

The U.S. depends on truckers to not only move the food stuff to your local grocery store but also from the farm to the processing or storage facilities. Without truckers we would be literally up that dammed creek the movie talks about.

Take your anger at truckers out on the consumers who demand fresh produce and other items as fast as possible. It's like blaming Wal-Mart for buying products from China yet when they used to have "Buy American" sections very few consumers wanted to pay the higher costs so they gave up and eliminated that section of their stores.

If anyone blame the typical American consumer not big business or big unions.



**********************************
My favorite: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

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They are called "radicals". Any extremity is bad for you AND others.

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