My biggest problem with demon movies - The Last Exorcism Part II (2013) Discussion

[–] taijiquan12 11 years ago

I do agree with some of what you're saying, a lot of these movies show Christianty/God as being weak, as a way to take away your sense of security, but fall into the logic trap that you described.

If the movie takes place in a world where all the negative parts of religious lore are true, it would seem more genuine and less contrived that the positive parts were true also.

"Bulls**t MR.Han Man!!"--Jim Kelly in Enter the Dragon

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] BigguBossu 11 years ago

Actually, Jesus putting the demons out is exorcism.

Also, the notion that demons don't go out quietly is there as well, somewhere in Acts when some Jewish exorcists try to cast out a demon using "the Jesus that Paul preaches" or some such, and the demon doesn't recognize their authority and basically pwns them.

Acts 19:13-16

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[–] Proctorism 11 years ago

That's different, because those false prophets were acting in the name of Jesus, so in turn the demons jumped out of that woman and into them. That had nothing to do with their being a struggle, that had to do with false prophets getting their just due. The op is talking about something different. When Jesus or the disciples cast out a spirit, it was gone. Paul punched a man in the stomach and the demon left. So those that had the power of GOD through Jesus Christ in them, were able to evict the demons immediately, there was no struggle. Not even when legion was cast out was there a struggle.

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[–] BigguBossu 11 years ago

They obviously believed that the name Jesus could work, so it still applies. Of course you can make the argument their faith wasn't strong enough/based on a real understanding, but you could say the same for a lot of film exorcist characters.

I don't recall Paul ever punching a man in the stomach and casting out a demon.

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[–] Proctorism 11 years ago

The issue wasn't thinking the name of Jesus applied, the comment was about how much work it took and in the case that the false prophets were brought up in had nothing to do with showing how much of a fight the demons put up, because there was no fight put up, they didn't recognize those false ones so they instead tore them to shreds. Now, I stand corrected on Paul punching a demon out, I got him confused with Smith Wigglesworth who did that (If you don't know who he is you should read about him, his story is interesting). Paul was annoyed by a woman who had the spirit of divination who kept following him around for days after reaching his point of annoyance he said "In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!" At that moment the spirit left her. Acts 16:18. Again no struggle. So biblically those that were of the spirit only had to speak a word. The other poster was right too in the one situation where Jesus had to inform them of certain demons that could only be cast out by fasting etc.. which requires more measure of faith. So it boiled down to the level of faith.

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[–] Proctorism 11 years ago

Maybe it takes them that long because they're lacking in faith. Also this is Hollywood, so you know who has to look more powerful.

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[–] beautifuldiaries 11 years ago

lol true

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[–] Godnesss 11 years ago

Now I do realize that if a movie were to follow the actual teachings of the Bible it would be a very short film.

I get that, but I am more saying they could atleast make it somewhat fair, even if an angel coming down from heaven does seem a bit far fetched lol. Currently demons are heavily favored. And a demon vs angel fight would be pretty fun to watch, especially if it was like a Michael Bay movie, can you imagine the destruction like a high demon vs an arch angel would do in real life? I can't but I know Michael Bay would exaggerate the likely results 1000000000 times.

If none of this makes sense im basically saying they should make it more even because if it was realistic the movie would be over in 5 minutes. So basically I am back to my epic boss fight at the end.

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[–] halder-sandeep 11 years ago

it's all about faith i guess... how much faith u have in Ur god or saint... exorcisms fail b coz faith is shaken, lack of faith results in fear and failure. Christ was confidant, his faith in god and himself was simply strong... that's why he so easily and successfully perform exorcism. that's what the theme of exorcisms in movies is all about including this one as well.

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[–] ikerocrub 10 years ago

Nicely said......kudos to you....

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[–] HuGoL1101 9 years ago

Probably that Jesus is just a better exorcist than a Priest! I can cope with that...

20 minutes sur nothing... do you think that in real life it would take 2 minutes?
I repeat: 20 minutes is nothing at all !! For God sake any Demons that deserve this title will pull up a fight! For you its seems long because you probably whine on your couch... Personally I had a paranormal experience that felt to me like 15-20 minutes long MAX!! But in fact, 1 hour and 20 minutes passed !! This whole time was scary as *beep* more than any movie I ever seen, But if I would film what's really happened during this 1h20... you would be bored... as *beep* !! I'm out of the subjet, but still in the game!

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[–] ElectricWarlock 11 years ago

You need to watch Omen III: The Final Conflict. At the end of that movie, Jesus appears before Damien as one of the characters stabs him with a dagger.

Come, fly the teeth of the wind. Share my wings.

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[–] RyanCallawaySF 11 years ago

Kind of funny, I brought up this very point in a review I did for this movie. Seriously God's powerless to stop Abalam from destroying the world? Right. As for the overall debate that's formed, while it's true in the bible accounts that Jesus and the disciples cast demons out "with a word", there was at least one story I remember where Jesus comes down from a mountain and the disciples are disputing with someone because they couldn't cast the demon out. And He said that certain types don't go out unless there is fasting and prayer. So they didn't have enough faith, I'd presume.

I laughed about what you said regarding the 20 minute fight scene... but I heard someone talk about Daniel Chapter 10 and an angel mentioning that he'd been withstood by a fallen angel (The Prince of Persia) for 21 days. Would be interesting to see something like that in a film one day, lol.

http://www.amazon.com/Avenger-Blood-Ryan-Callaway/dp/0615590454/

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[–] snesss 11 years ago

"Now I would go pay to see a movie if in the last scene an angel comes down from heaven and we get like a 20 minutes fight scene lol, that would be worth watching."

Ha! That made me laugh out loud.
I am not a Christian but I do find these exorcism (in the Catholic sense) movies very fascinating. I don't really like over-dramatic horror movies. I like subtle build up or horror and part of what scares us as audience is to feel very hopeless when it comes to good vs. evil. I think that image is very necessary to lure audience into feeling what the characters are feeling. Hence, I think they under play the power of Christ and so on.

If we consider God and Satan as equal powers, as humans, we are some reason considered easily tempted by evil. But, it takes eternity or some life-changing event to build faith in God. Movies use these concepts a lot to show how weak humans are... not to show how weak God is or how powerful Satan is... there is a certain hopelessness about the human species.

The most scariest movie that I lost sleep over was infact "Rosemary's baby". There is not a single horrifying scene, but the whole essence of the movie is very scary! I like such subtle way of creeping in horror into audiences' mind.

Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it...

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[–] Proctorism 11 years ago

f we consider God and Satan as equal powers, as humans, we are some reason considered easily tempted by evil. But, it takes eternity or some life-changing event to build faith in God. Movies use these concepts a lot to show how weak humans are... not to show how weak God is or how powerful Satan is... there is a certain hopelessness about the human species.

That's the thing though, they aren't supposed to be equal in power. Thats why the op made that statement.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] The_Man_in_the_Planet 10 years ago

I thought that, too --- wow, Nell is Carrie LOL! Disappointing ending IMO. I had hoped for more from this movie.

In heaven everything is fine.

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[–] harlowphile 11 years ago

The Last Exorcism was an interesting movie because it dealt with a preacher, that had lost his faith, regaining it to fight against supernatural evil. It's not an original concept (see From Dusk Til Dawn for example), but it led to a lot of tension through the movie. The preacher by dying trying to halt the demon and ritual became a Christ like figure.

In contrast, The Last Exorcism II used a secret order practicing Sam and Dean Winchester magic with the goal of killing a chicken. Jesus, faith, and God really didn't have anything to do with the second movie. I don't believe that a Judea-Christian God was ever invoked by the secret order. In addition, while the preacher in the original movie died a martyr the exorcists in the second movie were murderers.

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[–] txsiimk 11 years ago

What I don't get is they always posses the most boring useless ppl, why don't they possess the president of the US or something , instead of some redneck bitch out in the middle of bumble *beep*, this is why I don't belive in ghosts in general.

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[–] Godnesss 11 years ago

Now that would make for a fun movie.

Barack Obama possessed by a demon ruling the US would be pretty classic. Though I'd personally prefer to see like FDR possessed, imagine him rolling around all demonic n stuff lol.

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[–] RyanCallawaySF 11 years ago

With some of the decisions made in government (not just during Obama's terms) possession would explain a lot...

http://www.amazon.com/Avenger-Blood-Ryan-Callaway/dp/0615590454/

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[–] Ohtori1 11 years ago

They due, it's called Supernatural. ahaha

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[–] ElectricWarlock 11 years ago

You need to read more about conspiracy theories. Supposedly all the people in power are part of a Satan worshipping cabal called the Illuminati, so if that's true (which I'm leaning towards believing in) the politicians may really be possessed by demons.

Come, fly the teeth of the wind. Share my wings.

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[–] txsiimk 11 years ago

uh, yeah, sure...satan did it...of course....

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[–] ElectricWarlock 11 years ago

If you were as open minded and as much of a critical thinker as you seem to think you are, you wouldn't dismiss an opinion without doing even 10 minutes worth of research into it. Whether Satan exists or not isn't really the point anyways. The point is that the people in power believe he does and act accordingly.

Come, fly the teeth of the wind. Share my wings.

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[–] harlowphile 11 years ago

In the movies, once possession gets to a president it's necessary to invoke the anti-christ. It makes for great movies like the Omen and Rosemary's Baby.

On a more spiritual level, ghosts are different then demons. Many people believe that ghosts are either a fragment of a person's spirit or a person's spirit. Many Christians believe that demons are angels that rebelled from God. It's possible to believe in demons but not ghosts and vice versa.

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[–] txsiimk 11 years ago

well I don't believe in either. . . there is simply no proof.

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[–] ubergoo 11 years ago

Historically, demons were considered a real problem in the Middle East before Christianity came along. Before Judaism, too, for that matter.

So, here is an in-film scenario for you: Demons are real and very old. God(s) and angels are newer and made up just to make people feel safer. Demons can actually only be managed by whatever old rules apply to them and not by the newer, made up beliefs.

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[–] MerovingianGoddess 11 years ago

You can set a movie in New Orleans but it doesn't automatically make it about voodoo... and demon is only the misappropriation of the terms "daemons" meaning spirits. When Catholicism gave spirits good or evil qualities, they became what humanity empowered them with... "angels & demons" is a Dan Brown novel. Occult means hidden - hidden knowledge, esoteric and requiring adept thought... which the writers of this movie didn't really employ - LOL!

Christianity is the world's first state religion, but the religion of a culture. In reality, there are entities but saints given humanities powers are pretty effective. If nothing more, they are thoughtforms... just like demons. I'm not even Catholic.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance" - Socrates

Nancy*
Living my life vicariously through cinema
www.facebook.com/nancychandler.delinquentrecords

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