MovieChat Forums > Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory (2012) Discussion > Garbage 'Documentary' and moronic lawyer...

Garbage 'Documentary' and moronic lawyers


The entire focus was on trying to prove their innocence. No counterpoints were really made in any intelligent way. They gave way to much time to a mentally challenged moron and he just loved every minute of spouting off nonsense just as he did in the earlier documentary when he swore they were guilty. Most of the material presented was irrelevant. The attorneys claiming they proved the WM3's "innocence" was a joke. They know better but also love the camera time. The mock trial press conference was hilarious. It is very easy to make points when nobody is there to cross examine or challenge you. What happened here is very simple and the lawyers know it. There was not sufficient evidence to prove that they were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That has nothing to do with "innocence". But hey, if Eddie Vedder thinks they are innocent, well then, it must be so...lol

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Spot on.

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The FACT that the Alabama Supreme Court was going to allow for a new trial based on ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE that wasn't presented in the original trial speaks volumes. The STATE screwed these three innocent people; the Alford plea deal was BS so the state could cover their asses to prevent the WM3 from suing the hell out of them due to WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT, which is exactly what would have happened had a new trial been given - they would have been exonerated because there's evidence to prove they didn't do it. This film along with West of Memphis prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that they're innocent. Pam Hobbs and Mark Byers feel the same way - that also says a lot that PARENTS of 2 of the children who were killed have changed their tune; that point alone is more valid than any argument you can present.

Ignore Republicans; then you rob them of their lies having any influence. http://foxnewslies.net/

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[deleted]

Alright FJ, as a non supporter of the three, what to you is the most damning evidence against them? Evidence that just can't be repudiated or explained away so that we know they did it? I'm asking as someone who truly does not know or claim to know if they were guilty or not. I watched most of this documentary, and asked a supporter here the same thing, leading me to lean towards believing they were innocent but I'm fully aware of the purpose of the documentary and who made it so I'm not married to any belief, I can be swayed. Any info or opinions on the case against them?

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With exculpatory "ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE," why did they take the Alford plea? It was ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE.


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Please put some dashes above your sig line so I won't think it's part of your dumb post.

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No, it was CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE that was RIDDLED WITH ERRORS. Do some *beep* research. They took the plea deal (which Jason did not want to do) in order to get Damien off of death row; they all knew they got screwed because due to the terms of the deal they can't sue for wrongful imprisonment - which is why they're continuing to pursue new evidence and attempt to track down the actual killer. A guilty person wouldn't go to that trouble.

Ignore Republicans; then you rob them of their lies having any influence. http://foxnewslies.net/

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[deleted]

Christ, I see I'm being stalked here, too. The "post ignored" message is both amusing and sad.

Nons have ISSUES - the WM3 are INNOCENT.

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Excuse me you fool, but I am QUOTING YOU VERBATIM FROM YOUR POST ABOVE:

the Alabama Supreme Court was going to allow for a new trial based on ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE that wasn't presented in the original trial

There, now I've copied and pasted it. Is that enough? No? Then here's a link:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2028530/board/thread/209350076?d=210452585 #210452585

Apparently you don't know the meaning of the word "exculpatory" either. So my question stands: If there was ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE to prove their innocence, why did they plead guilty? Don't tell me it was to get Damien off death row; ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE to prove him innocent would have accomplished that *and* wiped his record.


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Please put some dashes above your sig line so I won't think it's part of your dumb post.

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[deleted]

Typical non BS - pick and choose what you want to believe. Stupid me - I assumed you'd made the actual effort to watch both this film and West of Memphis which details the ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE which would have proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that none of the WM3 committed the crime (watch WOM, I refuse to do your homework for you).

The court didn't want to admit they royally *beep* up, and the new evidence would have undoubtedly exonerrated all three men, which would have been a huge blow to the WM police and the Arkansas justice system. It would have also allowed all three to sue the hell out of the state for wrongful imprisonment. To rub salt in their wounds, they just offered the Alford plea - and YES, Jason DID AGREE TO IT TO GET DAMIEN OFF OF DEATH ROW. I honestly don't give a *beep* if you disagree or not; you REFUSE to look at documented facts and ACTUAL EVIDENCE and instead choose to just believe HEARSAY AND LIES.

Screw you - another non POS to add to the ignore list. I'd tell you to educate yourself, but your other posts are primarily about the Twilight series; that alone discredits anything you might have to say.

Nons have ISSUES - the WM3 are INNOCENT.

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[deleted]

Oh deary me, I'm on his ignore list. How . . . flattering.

Well, at the risk of talking to myself, I will note that this makes no sense. If this new ACTUAL FACTUAL evidence was guaranteed to spring the WM3, that was Damien's ticket off Death Row right there. There was no need for an Alford Plea. Taking the Alford Plea in that case is like changing a twenty for two fives so your pal can do a five-dollar was and a five-dollar dry. Why not get a ten back, too? In fact, why not sue the laundromat for fraud and get enough money to buy a gold-plated washer and dryer?

The next question is, when does Lorri call 911 because Damien choked her? How quick will he dump her for the WM3 groupies when the red carpet events start?


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Please put some dashes above your sig line so I won't think it's part of your dumb post.

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The next question is, when does Lorri call 911 because Damien choked her? How quick will he dump her for the WM3 groupies when the red carpet events start?


I was on these boards the day the 3 were set free. Every idiot non that was around was claiming that the 3 were going to be back in jail within months, for killing kids, beating their girlfriends, etc. It hasn't happened and my money is that it won't.

See, that is what I don't get with you nons. You guys live in a world of speculation where as supporters live in a world of facts.

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Come on all the do-gooders,give the poor guys a break! Why don't we all help out and send them more money or use their services? Jason has a wedding that needs monetary input or a new movie in the works.. Dummies!

Supporters live in facts? The actual guilty party doesn't so wake up!

Naivety of some people is disgusting!

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You watched some biased documentaries that left TONS of evidence out and even flat out lied to the viewers in one case (Paradise Lost 2 saying Jessie confessed after 12 hours when records show it was 4) and you're an expert on this case. Ha! Have you done ANY other research other than sitting on your ass watching documentaries that leave out a TON OF STUFF?? I'm interested to know why you think these films are the end all be all of this case when they don't even give you HALF the facts that went to trial!

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Exactly!! I saw these documentaries and can see through the bs! After I was supposed to be swayed to Byers as the guilty party I was supposed to be swayed to Hobbs in the next one. Ridiculous how they can just pick a new person to go with when one doesn't work anymore. Maybe the next documentary will be exclusively about Mr. Bojangles but they need to make sure they don't omit his broken arm in a cast this time! The only thing that sticks is what they already have which is three men who were found guilty, exactly like their Alford Plea states!

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[deleted]

It could be very damaging! It may seem weird but I'm out for justice for the three children not the three grown men who were found guilty both times.

The WM3 may have pled guilty but they're still free which is a slap in the face to the boys and their families.

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Exactly!! I saw these documentaries and can see through the bs! After I was supposed to be swayed to Byers as the guilty party I was supposed to be swayed to Hobbs in the next one. Ridiculous how they can just pick a new person to go with when one doesn't work anymore. Maybe the next documentary will be exclusively about Mr. Bojangles but they need to make sure they don't omit his broken arm in a cast this time! The only thing that sticks is what they already have which is three men who were found guilty, exactly like their Alford Plea states!


Wrong. Bojangles arm was NOT in a cast. That is a "non-lie" or "nonsense". It was in a fabric sling, which means nothing (Ted Bundy used to use a fabric sling to aid in murders as well). Between Terry Hobbs, The WM3 and Mr. Bojangles, Mr. Bojangles looks the most suspicious (being covered in mud and blood and what not).

Because there was no blood and they left zero evidence means what? That the kids weren't killed? So, because there isn't blood evidence there wasn't a triple homicide? Possibly the water washed away the blood/evidence but don't choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence of their guilt!
\

If you read the medical examiners reports you will see that there should be a fair amount of blood evidence from the 3 victims. Now, do a google search for the WM3 and tell me if they look like the type that would shower daily or wash their clothes regularly. Now, keep in mind that the police searched all their houses and didn't find a drop of any genetic material anywhere. That is what sends up a red flag to me.

At least someone gets it. I've heard people say that teenagers wouldn't be smart enough to leave no physical evidence at the scene, which implies it was an experienced killer. That theory is bogus to me because I cannot accept that one person killed these kids, not to mention different types of knots were used to tie them up. Now we go from one experienced killer to two or more. The odds of serial killers working together are extremely low, and even if they weren't serial killers, finding two or more men who had motive and the apparent "education" to not leave any evidence still limits your odds. The most plausible explanation is that the killers simply got lucky. Which doesn't at all rule out that three teenagers did it--one of whom confessed five times, no less, and another two who have no alibis for that night.


Well according to Jessie, they splashed water on the banks and made zig-zag patterns to cover their tracks... Luminol was used at the crime scene, which tested positive for genetic material, but it could have been anything (animal urine for example will give a false/positive) so even that isn't exact science.

If you read John Douglas (who has a stellar reputation, no matter how badly the "nons" try to smear him), it paints a different picture of the crime and what happened.

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[deleted]

If you had already been wrongly convicted to life once, would you really want to risk being wrongly convicted again? It's not worth the risk. Another idiot judge and another idiot jury foreman could be all it takes to spend the rest of your life in prison.

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People say the documentary is biased (which is true, although the 2nd is the most glaringly biased one), yet the most compelling arguments are all on the side of them being innocent, as they said, the evidence against them was circumstantial and based of superficial reasons, the chance of them (especially Misskelly) being psychopaths who kept this secret for 20 years is astronomically low.

The film-makers have done what great film-making is supposed to do, send a message and try to effect change. This film has raised awareness and told the viewers to be more careful and inquisitive of law proceedings in the future, even if they do not 100% believe that the 3 are innocent.

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[deleted]

It's very unlikely that 3 kids would be able to pull off this crime, especially one who is intellectually impaired. It is also unlikely that all three just happen to be sociopaths and just happened to fit the crime perfectly and live in the same area. It is just way too convenient for the prosecution, and just lazy of their behalf.

It's pretty obvious Misskelly isn't a psychopath, so it seems even more unlikely he would be able to lie for 20 years without christian guilt getting to him.

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[deleted]

Because there was no blood and they left zero evidence. That's pretty hard to do, especially in a random, not elaborate murder by three kids and one intellectually impaired one.

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[deleted]

Don't be so ignorant to believe that these people deserved to go to jail. If the prosecution can't prove it, then some random net blogger can't. Just because you want them to be guilty doesn't mean they are.

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[deleted]

Like the experts said, probably away from the scene of the crime and dumped there later. Didn't you listen. And are you a doctor? because in West of Memphis they show 7 doctors agree that the 3 didn't do it. Give me YOUR scientific guess as to why all these medical professionals believe they didn't do it. The original court case had several statements that were lies and later recanted (100% fact), it had an occult 'expert' who didn't have any training and has been contradicted by actual professionals (also 100% accurate) and the Doctor of the trial got things so wrong that that professionals set up lectures just to go in detail in how this guy was wrong. How can you even say there is no reasonable doubt? How can you say it was a fair trial? How can you (who i'm assuming is not a doctor) contradict these well respected and learned medical professionals?

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[deleted]

Um.... no don't lie.

You asked

Could you tell us some more how this violent crime was committed and there wasn't a drop of spilled blood?


and I replied
Like the experts said, probably away from the scene of the crime and dumped there later.
Nowhere in my last reply did I write
"there was no blood from the wm3 at the crime."
But you said I did, but like the lawyers of the case you make crap up to suit yourself.

All my points are very valid and well thought out, yet you reply with no educated answers and just say
baaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha. I love it. This idiot actually said......avoids his own idiotic statement.
Showing that you have no idea and can only rely on petty, childish name calling

Then you go on and say
there were a couple supporters in here at one point who were NOT hostile uneducatd idiots. What happened to those guys?
whilst hilariously miss-spelling educated, you called me hostile, after you called me an idiot 3 times during your last reply. You must be a troll, everyone else on iMDB talks about what a pest you are. And since when did you ever think there were supporters who were "NOT hostile uneducated idiots" because from what I can tell, you just have a cry and bag out anyone who has a rational argument.

And one last thing, who the hell are you talking to? "he answers about six other questios no one asked but avoids his own idiotic statement." Are you too cowardly to actually address me? It's probably because you know your argument is non-existant and you have to rely on name-calling and lying.

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[deleted]

Again, no arguments and just cowardly, immature name-calling. I'm sorry dude, but in the american judicial system, lack of evidence means INNOCENCE FULL STOP.

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[deleted]

"He's just an idiot" why do you write like that? They didn't find any evidence at the crime scene, all evidence was circumstantial and the witnesses were seen to be lying or un-educated. What is there up for debate?

You said "none of the wm3's blood was found at the scene." How could they possibly be guilty?
I NEVER SAID THAT YOU LIAR! They could be guilty, however, it is extremely unlikely and there is no evidence to support they are. Why are you even arguing, if the professionals couldn't prove they did it, what new evidence do you have that 100% proves they did it.

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Knoxfan2008, why are you even engaging this troll? All he is going to do is continue with name calling, make up "quotes" that he claims you said and then he will start calling YOU a troll. All the while, Jenkem will be dancing around your questions. Set him on ignore and move on.

Now, we wait for Jenkems rant about me. Calling me "girls" name, calling me a troll, claiming that I am in "love with him" even though I do not engage him, which in turn will cause him to start at least 2 threads dedicated to me (obsess much) and then troll me throughout IMDB. Luckily most people just ignore him (only the newbies engage him, the rest of us figured out a long time ago what he is).

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[deleted]

and there is no evidence to support they are.


You mean other than the five confessions from a guy placing Damien and Jason at the scene with him on a night that neither of them, even 20 years later, has an alibi for? An alibi that actually holds up in trial? A night where a carload of people also saw Damien, whom they knew by sight, walking near the crime scene with mud all over his clothes? Damien, the guy who had multiple people come forward saying he told them or someone else he did it? That's all in addition to Jessie's confessions placing him at the scene. A guy that was so disturbed, he once sucked blood from a guy's arm while in jail and wrote that he was a sociopath on his own medical charts.

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Why is it that 99% of the films you choose to review are TERRIBLE?!

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Because there was no blood and they left zero evidence.


And yet someone killed them. What exactly is your point? The crime took place. If there is no DNA evidence to convict anyone, how can you say one way or the other who did it? Without multiple confessions, of course.

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They most likely didn't do it. They are out of jail, there is way more evidence supporting they didn't do it rather than they did, Get over it. You lost. The end. Have a nice day guys

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Because there was no blood and they left zero evidence means what? That the kids weren't killed? So, because there isn't blood evidence there wasn't a triple homicide? Possibly the water washed away the blood/evidence but don't choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence of their guilt!

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Because there was no blood and they left zero evidence means what? That the kids weren't killed? So, because there isn't blood evidence there wasn't a triple homicide? Possibly the water washed away the blood/evidence but don't choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence of their guilt!


At least someone gets it. I've heard people say that teenagers wouldn't be smart enough to leave no physical evidence at the scene, which implies it was an experienced killer. That theory is bogus to me because I cannot accept that one person killed these kids, not to mention different types of knots were used to tie them up. Now we go from one experienced killer to two or more. The odds of serial killers working together are extremely low, and even if they weren't serial killers, finding two or more men who had motive and the apparent "education" to not leave any evidence still limits your odds. The most plausible explanation is that the killers simply got lucky. Which doesn't at all rule out that three teenagers did it--one of whom confessed five times, no less, and another two who have no alibis for that night.

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I cannot accept that one person killed these kids

The most plausible explanation is that the killers simply got lucky

Your arguments hold up about as well as a sand castle. Stop crying, they are free, It doesn't make sense how you can honestly be happy for these guys to be sent to prison without reasonable evidence.


The odds of serial killers working together are extremely low, and even if they weren't serial killers, finding two or more men who had motive and the apparent "education" to not leave any evidence still limits your odds.
Well it isn't exactly a very common crime is it? Do you listen to your argument? There have been plenty of times where Random psychos will get together and do this sort of crap together. Manson family anyone?

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I don't believe they were sent to prison without reasonable evidence. You do. I happen to think the 24 original jurors who presided over the trails and the Alford Plea, which still has them seen as guilty in the eyes of the law despite what they say publicly, were correct.

I see a man with a well-documented history of psychotic behavior who wrote that he was a sociopath on his own hospital charts, who said he drank blood and was possessed (you can't say these are lies--these are notes from his actual psychiatrist--they keep records on their patients like all doctors do, she didn't make up lies in her own notes for no reason) being accused of a murder by a friend when he has no alibi for that time period and was seen near the crime scene that night by a carload of people who knew him. A man who went around bragging about killing three kids during the month before his accomplice ratted him out, as per the testimony of multiple people who, contrary to what supporters always say, did not all recant their testimonies. A man who also tried to rip out another kid's eyes unprovoked from behind.

Another was a violent deviant who had a history of wonderful behavior, like punching a 13 year old girl in the mouth for standing up to him when he lied about them having sex (this is an actual police report taken before the murders--again, it wasn't made up by anyone). Among other things. A man that also confessed FIVE times.

Another one of the boys had grandparents that were not even shocked to see their son arrested for murder on TV. His mother also accused her husband of turning him in when they raided their trailer, but when asked about the incident, the mother says she doesn't know why she'd say something like that but does admit to saying it.

I'm sorry, I'm not being unfair. I'm willing to accept evidence and five confessions that implicate two other boys who have absolutely no alibis, a history of mental illness, and actual witnesses placing them near the scene.

I'm sorry if I don't get my facts from a biased set of documentaries that win people over by omitting tons of information to the case. Some of us aren't wowed by editing tricks and misleading emotional tactics drummed up by filmmakers with no sense of journalistic integrity. If they wanted to produce a fair documentary, they'd have included even HALF of the information they left out of their movies. But they didn't.

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[deleted]

The standard with our legal system is "beyond a reasonable doubt" -- not whether or not one thinks the evidence presented at trial is "reasonable." What scares me with the posters still determined to argue for the guilt of (primarily) Damien is that they consistently cite details from his mental health records, which do not tell us if he participated in a murder of three eight year old boys.

For some reason these posters, you in this case, seem to think that details from a troubled teenager's mental health records are certain indications of his future participation in a specific murder. This is radically NOT THE CASE, and frankly I find it depressing that in every single post that screams that the WM3 are guilty the "evidence" provided is always the same (Damien's mental health records). This case suffered from a profound lack of physical evidence that pointed to the WM3 -- no DNA, nothing. That is enough for "reasonable doubt" -- period. Every detail you list in your post regarding Damien -- "evidence" that you think is a "reasonable" indication of his guilt -- is certainly not "evidence" that he committed these murders. That is the issue. That is why these defendants were released w/the Alford plea and not awarded new trials as none of them would have been convicted by juries not swayed by "evidence" about satanism (remember the prosecution's "occult expert?" -- what an appalling joke) and quotes from Damien's medical records.

"Hearts and kidneys are tinker toys! I am talking about the central nervous system!"

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Add Henry Lee Lucas and Ottis Toole to that list, along with Charlene and Gerald Gallego, Fred and Rosemary West, Myra Hindley and boyfriend, Paul Bernardo and his dumb broad, I could go on all day with this stuff. Moral: you hit the nail on the head.

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[deleted]

They took the plea bc why would they have any faith in the legal system after it failed them the first time? And a trial would've taken years! They didn't want to lose any more time.

That being said, if they were guilty they wouldn't want to pass up this chance either.

I don't believe taking the plea adds to proof of guilt or innocence for the wm3. I think the state offering the plea does.

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The lawyers and 2 of the WM3 jumped at the chance of the Alford plea. They then convinced Baldwin to come aboard. If they really wanted to demonstrate their innocence, they would have waited for the new trial, but actually they valued freedom over exoneration. They were not cheated by the Alford plea, they were actually given a good deal.

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Hmmm...just scrolled thru knoxwhoevers posts, none were edited and he says nothing about "wm3 blood"...just sayin

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It boils down to this. If the government felt they were actually guilty they would not have let them go. There wasn't enough actual evidence when they were convicted and later evidence pointed to someone else

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The documentary was interesting, but I agree that it was very biased. I don't know if the three are innocent or guilty, but I would have liked to see a more unbiased documentary.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

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